JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

[MastanKhan]

What's the expression in Pakistan, " Old man and tantrum throwing child acts the same ". Tone down your condescending tone, You will earn the respect of others. Respect is earned, not given.

Hi,

It is not about a condescending post or comment---but it is the lack of effort and a lack of understanding of many a younger posters---.

Where things have been repeated again and again---over and over---but still no movement in understanding---.

Posters who have been condescended against---need to stop---reassess---and learn to understand what is being said rather than when they are reading---.

But for that---they would need a knowledge base to dig in to---which in most cases is missing.

 

[SQ8]

Sir, I slightly disagree. Both @Bilal Khan 777 and @Oscar should have the permanent powers to kick people off, ban them, and remove posts. You can't ask our seniors to play subservient to any internet hooligans who cross their path. This is disrespect of the highest order. Also, because they are seniors, they shouldn't be burdened with general moderation duties either. They can be the spearheads in spreading correct information, and coming down hard on disinformation and misinformation. Only then can we increase the quality of the content here. They can write monthly articles providing deep insight on topics of their own choosing. They can start a book reading club. So many things are possible, but they need the powers to keep idiots in check.



Sir, when Einstein started thinking about space time, he didn't know he would come up with theory of relativity. He was just interested in space time.

This Einstein is really interested to learn about the space-time of the great mind behind internet handle @Oscar. That's all. Hope you don't mind.

To address the first, I would not want that power. Because that is suppressing speech- after all if all idiots were silenced every time we would never know they are idiots for certain?

We should give everyone the chance to try and learn, not shut them off. Sure, trolls from a certain neighbor an exception but in general people here are just enthusiastic about the subject( I use enthusiasm willfully not as a grammatical error but because enthusiasm does not translate to interest in really learning or reading about the subject).

However, the bothersome bit about Pakistanis in general today(because its defence.pk and we don't give a khota tatti about other nationalities) prefer to watch a 2bit youtube video made out of googled images and poorly written captions as long as it has jingoistic or flashy soundtrack. They think they have the scoop or authentic news while the maker of the video could be a 15 year old in the same position as him.

So, the change cannot be via me or @Bilal Khan 777 or @araz banning everyone we feel is spouting nonsense, it falls upon those that do listen to him to help keep the nonsense at bay and encourage others to learn.

When that does not happen, eventually people get tired and decide to let the rambling continue and mostly disappear- logging on occasionally to bemuse themselves with the nonsense.

As for me, Im an ordinary 30 year old trying to make somewhat of an honest living. Nothing special, beyond me getting my private pilot license which is great.

 

[Blacklight]

Does that matter or content of the posts?

I think it has more to do with finding a nice girl for you.

Jokes aside, please do reconsider your decision to leave. If we can communicate privately, that would be really appreciated.

 

[SQ8]

I think it has more to do with finding a nice girl for you.

Jokes aside, please do reconsider your decision to leave. If we can communicate privately, that would be really appreciated.

The first paragraph exists as much as a suitable helmet mounted display system for the JF-17.

Similar supply constraints and availability of actual performance in products.

 

[CriticalThought]

To address the first, I would not want that power. Because that is suppressing speech- after all if all idiots were silenced every time we would never know they are idiots for certain?

We should give everyone the chance to try and learn, not shut them off. Sure, trolls from a certain neighbor an exception but in general people here are just enthusiastic about the subject( I use enthusiasm willfully not as a grammatical error but because enthusiasm does not translate to interest in really learning or reading about the subject).

However, the bothersome bit about Pakistanis in general today(because its defence.pk and we don't give a khota tatti about other nationalities) prefer to watch a 2bit youtube video made out of googled images and poorly written captions as long as it has jingoistic or flashy soundtrack. They think they have the scoop or authentic news while the maker of the video could be a 15 year old in the same position as him.

So, the change cannot be via me or @Bilal Khan 777 or @araz banning everyone we feel is spouting nonsense, it falls upon those that do listen to him to help keep the nonsense at bay and encourage others to learn.

When that does not happen, eventually people get tired and decide to let the rambling continue and mostly disappear- logging on occasionally to bemuse themselves with the nonsense.

As for me, Im an ordinary 30 year old trying to make somewhat of an honest living. Nothing special, beyond me getting my private pilot license which is great.

Ha! Knew I had something in common with you

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/got-...-to-throw-a-couple-of-3g-turns-myself.491245/

As for banning trolls etc., what I meant to say is if someone is attacking you guys personally, as is the grievance of @Bilal Khan 777 then you should have the powers to act. I know you guys are rational and you wouldn't overdo it.

Here is an interesting project I have assigned myself and something you guys can help in. It involves a lot of learning for myself at least. I want to make a 3D model of JF-17, and then perform aerodynamic analysis on it to compute things like Drag/Lift ratio, RCS, etc. It might take years, but I'll learn a lot. Later I might do it for Tejas. From the resulting data, I might create a realistic simulated dog fight between the two. It might take decades. How about we create a thread dedicated to this stuff and you guys can help me?

In general, I am very good at programming, Alhamdolillah. How about you two dream up something and I bring it into the realm of possibility. Who knows where we might end up with that?

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

@Oscar my very dear brother, friend... what giveth... @araz is quite right about what he said.

Who else is going to lament about corruption and keep us showing the mirror of truth.

Who else will be showing the ugly truths and yet be totally loyal to his Pakistan. Who else but you and people like you.

I know my request doesn't carry any weight and you are a determined person by character... yet a request it is.

Kindly, do consider and let there remain a balance here at PDF.

You take care!

SPF

 

[SQ8]

Ha! Knew I had something in common with you

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/got-...-to-throw-a-couple-of-3g-turns-myself.491245/

As for banning trolls etc., what I meant to say is if someone is attacking you guys personally, as is the grievance of @Bilal Khan 777 then you should have the powers to act. I know you guys are rational and you wouldn't overdo it.

Here is an interesting project I have assigned myself and something you guys can help in. It involves a lot of learning for myself at least. I want to make a 3D model of JF-17, and then perform aerodynamic analysis on it to compute things like Drag/Lift ratio, RCS, etc. It might take years, but I'll learn a lot. Later I might do it for Tejas. From the resulting data, I might create a realistic simulated dog fight between the two. It might take decades. How about we create a thread dedicated to this stuff and you guys can help me?

In general, I am very good at programming, Alhamdolillah. How about you two dream up something and I bring it into the realm of possibility. Who knows where we might end up with that?

Been there
Done that.. well not me but a friend of mine. Use him for other purposes as well but that is for another topic.

Although the JF-17 model could use improvement. The Tejas too I need to fix a bit.

 

[CriticalThought]

Been there
Done that.. well not me but a friend of mine. Use him for other purposes as well but that is for another topic.

Although the JF-17 model could use improvement. The Tejas too I need to fix a bit.

Could you please give me the 3D models?

 

[SQ8]

Could you please give me the 3D models?

Not exactly
But I can tell you what to look for.
http://combatace.com/files/file/14981-jf17-update-jf17b/

http://combatace.com/files/file/15282-banidos-jf-17-thunder-beta/

 

[Windjammer]

@Oscar , what's this I'm reading (Sorry have not kept up with the developments... never was my strong point).
Although you have the power to terminate others but your real strength is knowledge in the field, enough to demolish anyone in a civilised manner. Indeed sometimes it's better to walk away from a futile debate/argument but that doesn't imply that you turn your back on us. Spread your knowledge and experience, the privileged will benefit, the others.....well all I can say is....they are here because....they are not all there. !!!

 

[messiach]

OK. Examine later block-1s in pitch,yaw and roll. In a dFbW/O/L the movements are flawless and fluidic even before the movements are attempted - that's called anticipation. Not possible under mechanical hydraulics.

I am confused. Per latest article in Quwa by @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

http://quwa.org/2017/04/30/jf-17b-foundation-jf-17-block-iii/

So, according to Quwa, it seems Block 1/2 do not have 3 axis FBW, whereas @messiach seems to suggest it does and only the first few initial batches didn't have it.

Can you two experts please explain what is the correct position in this regard? Thank you!

OK.

I wanted it, but didn't put enough to expect it.

We've seen different canopy designs before too - e.g. MiG-29M/M2. The MiG-29M2 (dual seat) has a higher visibility cockpit, but the MiG-29M's canopy (single seat) hasn't changed from older MiG-29 variants.

That said, if a customer is really bent on wanting a higher visibility cockpit on the JF-17, they can look to Russia's method of modifying dual-seat M2/Ks into single-seat jets.

View attachment 393964

 

[razgriz19]

OK. Examine later block-1s in pitch,yaw and roll. In a dFbW/O/L the movements are flawless and fluidic even before the movements are attempted - that's called anticipation. Not possible under mechanical hydraulics.


OK.

It was mentioned before that (atleast) block 1s do not have FBW for roll. But have it for yaw and pitch.

 

[Chak Bamu]

To address the first, I would not want that power. Because that is suppressing speech- after all if all idiots were silenced every time we would never know they are idiots for certain?

We should give everyone the chance to try and learn, not shut them off. Sure, trolls from a certain neighbor an exception but in general people here are just enthusiastic about the subject( I use enthusiasm willfully not as a grammatical error but because enthusiasm does not translate to interest in really learning or reading about the subject).

However, the bothersome bit about Pakistanis in general today(because its defence.pk and we don't give a khota tatti about other nationalities) prefer to watch a 2bit youtube video made out of googled images and poorly written captions as long as it has jingoistic or flashy soundtrack. They think they have the scoop or authentic news while the maker of the video could be a 15 year old in the same position as him.

So, the change cannot be via me or @Bilal Khan 777 or @araz banning everyone we feel is spouting nonsense, it falls upon those that do listen to him to help keep the nonsense at bay and encourage others to learn.

When that does not happen, eventually people get tired and decide to let the rambling continue and mostly disappear- logging on occasionally to bemuse themselves with the nonsense.

As for me, Im an ordinary 30 year old trying to make somewhat of an honest living. Nothing special, beyond me getting my private pilot license which is great.

I am very very sorry to see you opt out of moderation duties. But what can I say? I did the same.

I just hope to see you around since you are a very special person and I learned a good bit from your posts. Just please do not disappear from PDF. Your presence here accentuates all that is good about PDF. We shall be poorer without you.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

It is not about a condescending post or comment---but it is the lack of effort and a lack of understanding of many a younger posters---.

Where things have been repeated again and again---over and over---but still no movement in understanding---.

Posters who have been condescended against---need to stop---reassess---and learn to understand what is being said rather than when they are reading---.

But for that---they would need a knowledge base to dig in to---which in most cases is missing.

With people's ego in their hands, and their head up their displays, can't really teach much to them, technology, tactics, history, strategy etc. Everyone with google seems to know more. Any statement is an insult to some civilian, or some nationality. What a depressive state of degeneration in this generation. At my time, I could disagree with my OC, and he appreciated it. Saved lives many times giving criticism over planned missions. We weren't trained to mince words. What someone find condescending is not intended. MK's words are deep, but will only be grasped by people with depth themselves. but then he is a comrade I have started to admire even more.

To address the first, I would not want that power. Because that is suppressing speech- after all if all idiots were silenced every time we would never know they are idiots for certain?

We should give everyone the chance to try and learn, not shut them off. Sure, trolls from a certain neighbor an exception but in general people here are just enthusiastic about the subject( I use enthusiasm willfully not as a grammatical error but because enthusiasm does not translate to interest in really learning or reading about the subject).

However, the bothersome bit about Pakistanis in general today(because its defence.pk and we don't give a khota tatti about other nationalities) prefer to watch a 2bit youtube video made out of googled images and poorly written captions as long as it has jingoistic or flashy soundtrack. They think they have the scoop or authentic news while the maker of the video could be a 15 year old in the same position as him.

So, the change cannot be via me or @Bilal Khan 777 or @araz banning everyone we feel is spouting nonsense, it falls upon those that do listen to him to help keep the nonsense at bay and encourage others to learn.

When that does not happen, eventually people get tired and decide to let the rambling continue and mostly disappear- logging on occasionally to bemuse themselves with the nonsense.

As for me, Im an ordinary 30 year old trying to make somewhat of an honest living. Nothing special, beyond me getting my private pilot license which is great.

I got my PPL (it was APL then) when i was 15. Got a lot of crap in the academy for it.

 

[Hell hound]

You are respected and wanted. Be amongst your friends and satisfy their needs and ignore the ones that dont feel the need.

@Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar i will love to support araz on this one sir/bro don't just leave because of some ignorant who want to stay ignorant there are many other guys like me who respect your expertise on the subject and want to learn more for you guys as neither are we in the force nor we have many ways available to us to learn about it.