JF-17 VS GRIPPEN C/D a comparison

[zeeshanvita]

Actually I was thinking of a 20 million$ price/unit for the JF-17. Grippen NG is around 100 million $, if one refers to the Brazilian deal... Do the math again and you'll see it is 5/1.


No such terms, it can only beat the JF-17 on a one on one basis...and than!

Normally people here compare JF-17 with Grippen and Tejas...
both price is higher then Jf17 thunder...Grippen ND around $100M and tejas $40M where as thunder comes in a price tag between $15M to $20M.
what if another $20M is spent on JF17 thunder which will make it around $40M dont you think its performance will surpass any of these fighter easily with no comparison..??

 

[black-hawk_101]

So really which is the best?

 

[Darth Vader]

I dont Know in Which You people are living No sane person will put 1 Jet against 5 6 Jets thats a no win scenario.
1 Jf 17 is a decent Air craft , and gets the job done at very low cost against all other its competitors .
2 The China myth about China is not Buying its so its a bad plane that's totally wrong , You have to see the Whole picture
In the Cold war era russia , US chose air superiority fighters why because thats what they needed and china is going for these Kind of jets Now while Pakistan dont need that their requirement is different.
Jets are not some computers where you just see its specs if everything is better it means it will perform better than others yes it helps a lot but mostly its the man behind the machine .
BVR wont be a great help in Pak - Vs - India Because of the Distance , mostly it will be a Dog Fight.
Grippen , F 16 etc These fighters had time and money to evolve Jf 17 is the new kid in the block
We must Wait for the 3rd or 4th block to see What it becomes.

 

[Manticore]

We still have no official figures on the Block 2 for weight or flight performance changes right?

only this till now

 

[The SC]

Normally people here compare JF-17 with Grippen and Tejas...
both price is higher then Jf17 thunder...Grippen ND around $100M and tejas $40M where as thunder comes in a price tag between $15M to $20M.
what if another $20M is spent on JF17 thunder which will make it around $40M dont you think its performance will surpass any of these fighter easily with no comparison..??

I do not think so, since the 40 million$ plane will be something like the J-31, totally redesigned with stealth in mind.
That is coming to Pakistan as an already made J-31. adding 20 million$ per plane to the current configuration of the JF-17 is but a waste of thought energy. It is quite good as it is, for the purpose for which it was intended in the first place. It is quite an advanced fighter for its price tag, and like it was said before in the thread, Pakistan can produce 5 or 6 JF-17s for the price of one Grippen.
If the JF-17 matches the early versions of the F-16 Fighting Falcons like many people say, then it is quite a potent fighter. Anyone can refer to the videos and articles about the conception of the early F-16s and how sophisticated and potent they already were.
Anyhow, the types of weapons a fighter can carry and fire tell a whole lot about its avionics and capabilities. In this regard the JF-17 is quite a capable fighter.

 

[zeeshanvita]

I do not think so, since the 40 million$ plane will be something like the J-31, totally redesigned with stealth in mind.
That is coming to Pakistan as an already made J-31. adding 20 million$ per plane to the current configuration of the JF-17 is but a waste of thought energy. It is quite good as it is, for the purpose for which it was intended in the first place. It is quite an advanced fighter for its price tag, and like it was said before in the thread, Pakistan can produce 5 or 6 JF-17s for the price of one Grippen.
If the JF-17 matches the early versions of the F-16 Fighting Falcons like many people say, then it is quite a potent fighter. Anyone can refer to the videos and articles about the conception of the early F-16s and how sophisticated and potent they already were.
Anyhow, the types of weapons a fighter can carry and fire tell a whole lot about its avionics and capabilities. In this regard the JF-17 is quite a capable fighter.

NO wat I am trying to say is that if additional money is spent of better avionics, radar, sensors and engine it will become more lethal then what it is now....

I do not think so, since the 40 million$ plane will be something like the J-31, totally redesigned with stealth in mind.
That is coming to Pakistan as an already made J-31. adding 20 million$ per plane to the current configuration of the JF-17 is but a waste of thought energy. It is quite good as it is, for the purpose for which it was intended in the first place. It is quite an advanced fighter for its price tag, and like it was said before in the thread, Pakistan can produce 5 or 6 JF-17s for the price of one Grippen.
If the JF-17 matches the early versions of the F-16 Fighting Falcons like many people say, then it is quite a potent fighter. Anyone can refer to the videos and articles about the conception of the early F-16s and how sophisticated and potent they already were.
Anyhow, the types of weapons a fighter can carry and fire tell a whole lot about its avionics and capabilities. In this regard the JF-17 is quite a capable fighter.

By additional $20M what i mean is by putting idealistic equipment like EJ2000 engine, Italian radar, fully HMD and IFR which grippen have....trust me this will boast its capability hundred foulds

 

[The SC]

NO wat I am trying to say is that if additional money is spent of better avionics, radar, sensors and engine it will become more lethal then what it is now....

That is obvious, but it won't be a JF-17 anymore. Your premiss is conditional on Pakistan being able to procure all those avionics, engines, radars and sensors. Which in reality was proven not to be possible, at least from France.
A $40 million Pakistani made warplane, with Pakistan having open doors to the best technologies out there, can equal the Grippen NG and the F-16 Block 52. Considering the qualified man power's wages discrepancies with the US and Sweden, it will be like making a $60 million warplane in the Western countries. And you know what a $60 million cost in the west will bring to a fighter jet...A whole lot.

 

[zeeshanvita]

That is obvious, but it won't be a JF-17 anymore. Your premiss is conditional on Pakistan being able to procure all those avionics, engines, radars and sensors. Which in reality was proven not to be possible, at least from France.
A $40 million Pakistani made warplane, with Pakistan having open doors to the best technologies out there, can equal the Grippen NG and the F-16 Block 52. Considering the qualified man power's wages discrepancies with the US and Sweden, it will be like making a $60 million warplane in the Western countries. And you know what a $60 million cost in the west will bring to a fighter jet...A whole lot.

I know i am being very Idealistic which is not possible even if we have enough money...no western country will agree to sell these goodies to pakistan

 

[The SC]

I know i am being very Idealistic which is not possible even if we have enough money...no western country will agree to sell these goodies to pakistan

I am happy with what it has now, and very eager to see an AESA radar in it. Obviously a better engine and more sophisticated avionics will be value plus's, but the D-link is quite a sophistication now a days. So even if it is a potent fighter on its own it will be a great fighter in an integrated environment with AWACS's, F-16s and other platforms.

 

[zeeshanvita]

I am happy with what it has now, and very eager to see an AESA radar in it. Obviously a better engine and more sophisticated avionics will be value plus's, but the D-link is quite a sophistication now a days. So even if it is a potent fighter on its own it will be a great fighter in an integrated environment with AWACS's, F-16s and other platforms.

You must be happy but i am not because i know it could have been better then what it is not....we can spent 60Billion on shi**ty metro but when it comes to our defense we dont hve any money...

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

In the Cold war era russia , US chose air superiority fighters why because thats what they needed and china is going for these Kind of jets Now while Pakistan dont need that their requirement is different.

The USAF choose Air Superiority fighters because it had entire Wings of Bombers, ICBMs, and the Navy added another punch with it's own missiles and USN Air Wings.

NO wat I am trying to say is that if additional money is spent of better avionics, radar, sensors and engine it will become more lethal then what it is now....

A cost for an Aircraft is:

1. R&D
2. Equipment, ie frame/ weapons/ avionics
3. Some R&D cost for the next project

It's no longer a Bi-Polar world. Where Military Equipment acquisitions reflected a country's Political standing. The Fighter Market is a multi-polar world. More polars equal more choices. The top manufacturers can continue to offer their $120 million+ Fighter Jets but as governments are held more accountable, and some leaders want pomp, why not buy a 3 fighter jets for $120 over 1?

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Bhai false Flagger hai...its so obvious.

Chal YAAR tu kehta hai tau ma'an laita hn Warna Maira tau yehi khayal hai .

 

[Mughal-Prince]

By additional $20M what i mean is by putting idealistic equipment like EJ2000 engine, Italian radar, fully HMD and IFR which grippen have....trust me this will boast its capability hundred foulds

Brother how could this bill may strike another 20 Mil $ per plane if an EJ-200 cost around 6 Mil $ a piece so rest of electronics can't be of 14 Mil $ that's absurd ... And I think PAF was more interested in M-88 earlier although it costs around 5 Mil a piece but it's an underpowered engine.

 

[zeeshanvita]

Brother how could this bill may strike another 20 Mil $ per plane if an EJ-200 cost around 6 Mil $ a piece so rest of electronics can't be of 14 Mil $ that's absurd ... And I think PAF was more interested in M-88 earlier although it costs around 5 Mil a piece but it's an underpowered engine.

NO my friend you misunderstood me...i did not exactly calculated the price of engine and avionics..i just gave rough example that since price of Jf17 is between $15 to $20M and we compare it will tejas and grippen who are $40M to $60M a piece...so what if we build same JF17 for $40M how better would it become..??
i hope i have cleared my point..??

 

[Mughal-Prince]

NO my friend you misunderstood me...i did not exactly calculated the price of engine and avionics..i just gave rough example that since price of Jf17 is between $15 to $20M and we compare it will tejas and grippen who are $40M to $60M a piece...so what if we build same JF17 for $40M how better would it become..??
i hope i have cleared my point..??

Ok you got the point but again if we go for better sub systems we will minus the present sub systems as well so may not that expensive like I believe my earlier expectations for a French sub systems version of JFT may cost around 25 Mil $ max or much less but if we work with partial composites like re-enforced carbon fiber considered while building air frame still it won't cross 27 Mil $ a pop still much cheaper then LCA. I think LCA also carries its time over running costs as well that's why it may be a little expensive.

With a big "if" we include French Snecma M53 PK engine it has a price tag of 3.2 mil a pop but have better 100.7 kn thrust so the difference is 0.7 million and it may reduce the maintainable cost and lifecycle cost so it may be a better choice.

I believe we could have a whole TOT with this engine because French has shut down the manufacturing line of M2000 in favour of Rafael so all that required is spares for current fleets around the world. So a big if again TOT to Pakistan may reduce its spares and other cost they may earn through multiple ways the French and Pakistanis both.

That's my understanding and their are a lot of factors behind it others may differ, could be crazy thoughts for others.