JF-17 Thunder variant may be popular among developing nations

[Ra'ad]

Plz try to bear another fan-post from me
I think PAF should take the following course for the development of thunder:

Phase 1:
Be patience, wait for some funds to accumulate.

Phase 2:
Use the JF-17 Bk2s, produced by then, together with F-16s extensively in many air exercises throughout the world. Use it to the limit. With china, usa (all flags: red, green, black etc), gulf, turkey. A lot of money would be spent on that.

Phase 3:
Conduct studies and analysis of performance of our JF-17 in all exercises, and also how our JF-17 performed compared to the F-16. Based on the results of the study, produce JF-17 Bk3 with appropriate improvements in JF-17.

Phase 4:
Market the JF-17 Bk3 to everyone.

 

[ashoka87]

~ $25 million.

I think PAC has production line capacity of making 15-20 JF 17 a year
so will this affect PAF fleet replacement ??

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Plz try to bear another fan-post from me
I think PAF should take the following course for the development of thunder:

Phase 1:
Be patience, wait for some funds to accumulate.

Phase 2:
Use the JF-17 Bk2s, produced by then, together with F-16s extensively in many air exercises throughout the world. Use it to the limit. With china, usa (all flags: red, green, black etc), gulf, turkey. A lot of money would be spent on that.

Phase 3:
Conduct studies and analysis of performance of our JF-17 in all exercises, and also how our JF-17 performed compared to the F-16. Based on the results of the study, produce JF-17 Bk3 with appropriate improvements in JF-17.

Phase 4:
Market the JF-17 Bk3 to everyone.

You sir just saved PAF from its dooms day. I am so proud of you.

 

[graphican]

Hmm, but they need to sort out their civil war mess first.

Egypt is going to plunge deeper into the mess as Israel needs to rule parts of Egypt upto River Nile - and how can Israel do that if Egypt is strong.

As per the last signs of End of Times, holy Prophet PBUH said

"....and that you see barefoot, unclothed, beginning shepherds competing in the construction of tall buildings."

and this is happening now. I find in the next 10-15 years, Israel would have extended its boundaries between river euphrates and Nile and then there will arrive the anti-christ who Zionist identify as Christ but Muslims call him Dajjal. End of time is very near.. very very near.

For Muslims, there is a Sura in Quran, Surah Kahf (Sura No. 18 of Quran) which must be recited every Friday and which will save them from Dajjal. Remember that, it is your last resort to survival.

 

[ejaz007]

Lca tejas mk1 costs almost $30m excluding development costs, jf17 blk1 =$10-15m, jf17 blk2=$20-25m.. That is tejas's unit cost is double that of blk1 and $5m more than blk2... If this difference is with a western aircraft, we can assume because of diff economic conditions.. Here that is not an excuse.. Engine of both aircrafts are imported.. Everyöne including you saying jf17 blk1 better than lca mk1.. If it is a 5 mil diff we can absorb.. But here the difference is big $15m.. Then why you people not admitting lca better than jft because it costs double (global truth) and at the same time proud of building one of the most cost effective fighter plane in the world.. Otherwise pls explain which components in jf thunder are so much cost effective against the same in tejas..

I think the poor man just fell from mars and the impact has damaged his brain.

Now add the cost of medical bill for fixing the brains to the cost of LCA and if might go close to F-22 in performance or perhaps exceed it.

 

[Ra'ad]

I think the poor man just fell from mars and the impact has damaged his brain.

Now add the cost of medical bill for fixing the brains to the cost of LCA and if might go close to F-22 in performance or perhaps exceed it.

I can't extract a meaning out of his post, but i guess his logic is that LCA is more expensive ($30m he says), while JF-17 bk1 is $15m, so LCA has to be better for the cost shows it.

Well his logic might be true to some extent, they're using US engine which would be costlier than russian rd-93, and likewise some other factors. I think the unit price is greater bcoz of cost overruns, and financial inefficiencies too.

Whereas we benefitted from the relatively cheaper goods made in china. Chinese goods are cheaper coz of cheaper labour, and subsidies on utilities like electricity. And also due to the fact that the thunder program went very well over-all and didn't experience unnecessary delays.

 

[Kompromat]

I think PAC has production line capacity of making 15-20 JF 17 a year
so will this affect PAF fleet replacement ??

Planned to be increased...no biggy..

Aeronautical complex to be set up in Nawabshah - DAWN.COM

 

[gslv mk3]

I think the poor man just fell from mars and the impact has damaged his brain.

Now add the cost of medical bill for fixing the brains to the cost of LCA and if might go close to F-22 in performance or perhaps exceed it.

The cost would decrease in Series production

First tell this to your army who is not placing orders of LCA to HAL... JF-17 is made by China and Pakistan and our prime motive was to make aircraft which is capable enough but economical both didn't invested too much in R&D many things were borrowed from J-10 which being developed paralleled and we have not bought many things from international market but made it ingeniously so that why it's cost effective..... Hope you can understand bro

Its the Airforce,it has already ordered 40 Tejas mk 1.

 

[nangyale]

The Nawabshah thingy was just a last shot from Zardari when he was on his way out to make his constituents happy.
If Pakistan need to expand capacity there is plenty of room for that in Kamra, for logistical reasons it should be kept there.
We don't want to be running up and down the country now, do we?

 

[ejaz007]

I can't extract a meaning out of his post, but i guess his logic is that LCA is more expensive ($30m he says), while JF-17 bk1 is $15m, so LCA has to be better for the cost shows it.

Well his logic might be true to some extent, they're using US engine which would be costlier than russian rd-93, and likewise some other factors. I think the unit price is greater bcoz of cost overruns, and financial inefficiencies too.

Whereas we benefitted from the relatively cheaper goods made in china. Chinese goods are cheaper coz of cheaper labour, and subsidies on utilities like electricity. And also due to the fact that the thunder program went very well over-all and didn't experience unnecessary delays.

The capabilities and performance of military projects is never measured by unit cost, R&D cost or development cost.

LCA is expensive does not mean it is better than JF-17.

 

[Donatello]

I think PAC has production line capacity of making 15-20 JF 17 a year
so will this affect PAF fleet replacement ??

Since the first block, Blk 1, is complete, most of the manufacturing kinks should have been sorted out now. The plan is to have 50 blk2 JF-17s ready in 3 full years. Obviously, induction in the air force takes longer as squadrons are re-trained and re-equipped.

 

[Last Samuri]

Thunder is cheaper definitely because the chinease can build far more quickly and much faster than the terrible slow LCA project.

But also the indian fighter is using more expensive western hardware

Usa engines cost twice the russian engine rd93
Cost of compsiite airframe and unstable FCS airframe will increase cost too. over the cheaper traditional stable FCS of the thunder.

I think the israeli python 5/derby missles may also cost more than china SD10/PL7 ccombo missles too.

Its irrelevant LCA will never be built for export i doubt india will even build 200 for themselves let alone export.

 

[Munir]

A mismanaged project is always more expensive.

While LCA enters in small numbers into pre-operational level on just IR WVR missile and some dumb a2g bombs the JG17 moves away into another level with high tech avionic, links, BVR and IFR...

The reason that it is cheaper... It gets technology transfer from J10 and even J20...

 

[Kompromat]

Thunder is cheaper definitely because the chinease can build far more quickly and much faster than the terrible slow LCA project.

But also the indian fighter is using more expensive western hardware

Usa engines cost twice the russian engine rd93
Cost of compsiite airframe and unstable FCS airframe will increase cost too. over the cheaper traditional stable FCS of the thunder.

I think the israeli python 5/derby missles may also cost more than china SD10/PL7 ccombo missles too.

Its irrelevant LCA will never be built for export i doubt india will even build 200 for themselves let alone export.

and the more THUNDERS are sold the more affordable they'll become.

 

[araz]

Due to political vacuum and instability, egypt won't spend much but russians have milked them with mig-29 under some arrangement/loans.

We don't know what went thought EAF's mind with such a poor decision of getting $3.2b worth 20 Block 52s when they knew no AMRAAMs would be sold in years to come they could have simply gone for comprehensive upgrades MLUs for number of their Fleet to Block 50/52 standards. Also this $3.2b is not US aid but out of egypt's coffers. AIM 120 is a very critical component with 240+20 F-16s AIM-120 would make a huge difference so no even if JF-17 is remotely procured egypt will never see AMRAAMs or limited in numbers that could change balance. Some people up in the top brass lineup in EAF are not sincere in my opinion they are making all sorts of senseless decisions.

When you are a beggar nation your policy is not yours to make( as with Pakistan as well) but the nation that you have sold your freedom and integrity decides for you. In Egypts case Israels security would always be given precedence. I think for all intents and purposes even if the US ever gave them AMRAAMS they would be useless against israel. Having said that the Egyptian government is officially allied with Israel so why would they need weapons against their friends??
Even USSR and possibly the chinese would be reluctant to rock the boat too much and therefore quite honestly I dont see much progress on this front. My own 2 paisas worth Araz