JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[MastanKhan]

Russia is a very materialistic country and its defense sector accounts for a huge percentage of its economy. It will literally sell to anyone who is willing to buy. As usual, Indian media once again fails in understanding the nature of the Russian defense industry. Stopping the sale of RD-93s to Pakistan would be shooting yourself in the foot and be a pretty crushing blow to Klimov.

Hi,

With this comment---you have misunderstood russia. They are the least materialistic country---.

They have their interests and likes---. Make them like you and they are your friends.

 

[Figaro]

Hi,

With this comment---you have misunderstood russia. They are the least materialistic country---.

They have their interests and like---. Make them like you and they are your friends.

What I mean is that they sell weapons to literally whoever will buy them.

 

[Rana4pak]

After jf17 block 3.PAC should try to achieve this level for block 4.

 

[FuturePAF]

After jf17 block 3.PAC should try to achieve this level for block 4.View attachment 669634

Yes and No. Pakistan should aim for a similar platform, but with a new partner to gain more ToT and incorporate new suppliers into its aerospace projects. I’m not saying Pakistan should stop cooperating with the Chinese defense industry, rather it should have a separate project to incorporate western technology. The Turks will soon face the Rafale in the hands of the Greeks, and may face worse sooner rather then later. They also have an issue being allowed to upgrade their F-16s. They have access to world class thermoplastic composite manufacturing meant for the F-35 program and their industry needs sales to recover from the loss of F-35 contracts. If Pakistan and Turkey go in for an order of a 150 Semi-Stealthy single engine F-35 type aircraft each, similar to the semi-stealthy K-FX, it would maximize economies of scale, advance Project AZM and make us interoperable with another ally. It would also help get Pakistan off of any further dependency on the F-16, especially if there is no prospect of it getting upgraded.

The middle design with a Pelikan tail and a F110 class engine being developed by TRMotor, would be a good replacement for the F-16 if the costs can be kept to $50-60 Million helps bridge the technological divides between the JF-17 and Project AZM.

pakistan has experience with DSI intake as well as all the advances up to the Block III, manufacturing much of the plane, which would make it a good partner that can contribute to a joint project with Turkey.

 

[Beast]

I

Yes and No. Pakistan should aim for a similar platform, but with a new partner to gain more ToT and incorporate new suppliers into its aerospace projects. I’m not saying Pakistan should stop cooperating with the Chinese defense industry, rather it should have a separate project to incorporate western technology. The Turks will soon face the Rafale in the hands of the Greeks, and may face worse sooner rather then later. They also have an issue being allowed to upgrade their F-16s. They have access to world class thermoplastic composite manufacturing meant for the F-35 program and their industry needs sales to recover from the loss of F-35 contracts. If Pakistan and Turkey go in for an order of a 150 Semi-Stealthy single engine F-35 type aircraft each, similar to the semi-stealthy K-FX, it would maximize economies of scale, advance Project AZM and make us interoperable with another ally. It would also help get Pakistan off of any further dependency on the F-16, especially if there is no prospect of it getting upgraded.

The middle design with a Pelikan tail and a F110 class engine being developed by TRMotor, would be a good replacement for the F-16 if the costs can be kept to $50-60 Million helps bridge the technological divides between the JF-17 and Project AZM.

pakistan has experience with DSI intake as well as all the advances up to the Block III, manufacturing much of the plane, which would make it a good partner that can contribute to a joint project with Turkey.

View attachment 669635

Pakistan need to stop any delusion of further collaboration with Western countries or tech. You wouldnt want to be hold hostage by unreliable partners who always favour india.

UNSC rejects Pakistan attempt to name Indians on terror list

The UN Security Council, led by France, United Kingdom and the United States, has rejected all Pakistan’s attempts to list Indians as designated terrorists under its 1267 Committee for Counterterroris

www.thehindu.com

I will not be surprised at request of india. They will block after sales support for F-16 or any western tech. The western see india as allies and bigger market for their products.

 

[Rana4pak]

Yes and No. Pakistan should aim for a similar platform, but with a new partner to gain more ToT and incorporate new suppliers into its aerospace projects. I’m not saying Pakistan should stop cooperating with the Chinese defense industry, rather it should have a separate project to incorporate western technology. The Turks will soon face the Rafale in the hands of the Greeks, and may face worse sooner rather then later. They also have an issue being allowed to upgrade their F-16s. They have access to world class thermoplastic composite manufacturing meant for the F-35 program and their industry needs sales to recover from the loss of F-35 contracts. If Pakistan and Turkey go in for an order of a 150 Semi-Stealthy single engine F-35 type aircraft each, similar to the semi-stealthy K-FX, it would maximize economies of scale, advance Project AZM and make us interoperable with another ally. It would also help get Pakistan off of any further dependency on the F-16, especially if there is no prospect of it getting upgraded.

The middle design with a Pelikan tail and a F110 class engine being developed by TRMotor, would be a good replacement for the F-16 if the costs can be kept to $50-60 Million helps bridge the technological divides between the JF-17 and Project AZM.

pakistan has experience with DSI intake as well as all the advances up to the Block III, manufacturing much of the plane, which would make it a good partner that can contribute to a joint project with Turkey.

View attachment 669635

Bro engine is big no from turks side.incase of jf17 China is best they can install technologies from j20 to jf17 with out any hesitation. For semi stealth jf17 we can achieve that target with out any if and buts.next target should be semi stealth like KFX. We can coop with Turks incase of AZM

 

[Beast]

Bro engine is big no from turks side.incase of jf17 China is best they can install technologies from j20 to jf17 with out any hesitation. For semi stealth jf17 we can achieve that target with out any if and buts.next target should be semi stealth like KFX. We can coop with Turks incase of AZM

Precisely, the TFX project are using western engine. I am sure Pakistan will not want to go thru another T129K saga.

 

[Figaro]

Precisely, the TFX project are using western engine. I am sure Pakistan will not want to go thru another T129K saga.

Problem is a lot of Turkish subsystems are made with western subsystems/electronic components. This renders both Turkey and Pakistan vulnerable to sanctions by NATO.

 

[Beast]

Problem is a lot of Turkish subsystems are made with western subsystems/electronic components.

Turkey defense industry has improve a lot but let's not delude ourselves they can weed themselves completely from western assist in next 10 years.

As long as u received western collaboration or aid. U will have to follow their rules.

 

[FuturePAF]

I

Pakistan need to stop any delusion of further collaboration with Western countries or tech. You wouldnt want to be hold hostage by unreliable partners who always favour india.

UNSC rejects Pakistan attempt to name Indians on terror list

The UN Security Council, led by France, United Kingdom and the United States, has rejected all Pakistan’s attempts to list Indians as designated terrorists under its 1267 Committee for Counterterroris

www.thehindu.com

I will not be surprised at request of india. They will block after sales support for F-16 or any western tech. The western see india as allies and bigger market for their products.

Turkey would be the “western” partner, European suppliers would be secondary to what would be developed by Turkey. Turkey wouldn’t favor India.

Turkey is also facing a quiet embargo on its F-16s and due to its experience on the F-35 project could co-develop a fighter with Pakistan, which would help extricate both nations from the F-16 program. The effort would help advance Project AZM, through the process, if there is ToT. The key is ToT in manufacturing.

Pakistan still purchases enough products from European suppliers, such as Leonardo, that they have setup an office in Pakistan. Pakistan may not be purchasing large sub-systems, but it is still interested in smaller niche items it can get from Europe.

I agree another sticking point will be the engine. Pakistan would not want to go through another T-129 type event so Turkey would have to have solved that before before any collaboration could begin.

 

[Falcon26]

If Indians couldn’t stop Russia from selling the rd-93 engines when the JF-17 was at the mercy of the Russians, with no other credible alternative, what makes them think they can stop the supply now. Too bad another bogus Indian claim given more attention and discussion than it deserves. Moderators should have deleted the post and everyone should have moved on. Indians and their wet dreams should be given no mind.

 

[MastanKhan]

What I mean is that they sell weapons to literally whoever will buy them.

Hi,

The russians refused to sell to pakistan---even though pakistan had cash at hand during the early part of Gen Musharraf's regime---.

Pakistan then opted to change strategy---stepped back---re-assessed---and approached the russians in a different manner---. Addressed the afghan russian war issue---offered them incentives in the future about the cpec and gwadar port and promised a re-alignment of position between the east and the west---.

 

[MastanKhan]

Turkey would be the “western” partner, European suppliers would be secondary to what would be developed by Turkey. Turkey wouldn’t favor India.

Turkey is also facing a quiet embargo on its F-16s and due to its experience on the F-35 project could co-develop a fighter with Pakistan, which would help extricate both nations from the F-16 program. The effort would help advance Project AZM, through the process, if there is ToT. The key is ToT in manufacturing.

Pakistan still purchases enough products from European suppliers, such as Leonardo, that they have setup an office in Pakistan. Pakistan may not be purchasing large sub-systems, but it is still interested in smaller niche items it can get from Europe.

I agree another sticking point will be the engine. Pakistan would not want to go through another T-129 type event so Turkey would have to have solved that before before any collaboration could begin.

Hi,

Now a 25% larger JF17 becomes more important.

Turkey screwed up the F35 deal---a terrible terrible mistake---its f16's maybe in jeopardy---maybe not---.

Paf should have done the Gripen NG type upgrade on the JF17 Blk 2---to make it the BLK3.

The russian engine is a non issue at this stage---. The chinese engine is operational & available now if the need be.

 

[Deino]

Do we really need to spam this thread again with such fantasy-ideas like TFX-like Block 4 developments and a " 25% larger JF17"! We already have several dedicated threads for future developments.

 

[FuturePAF]

Do we really need to spam this thread again with such fantasy-ideas like TFX-like Block 4 developments and a " 25% larger JF17"! We already have several dedicated threads for future developments.

Roger that, we will move the discussion about that topic to the relevant thread.