JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Chak Bamu]

Leave calculations aside,will you shed some lights on advantages of such modefication,I recall PAF modefied shenyang F-6 by mounting Gondola Belly Tank.
One i know is getting rid of Drop Tanks,which in case of JFT impose a drag penality and occupy 3 vital stations.

My guesstimate is that (based only on volumetric calculations) it could be possible to eliminate 2 drop tanks with a small penalty in range. But I can think of some aircraft design issues cropping up in the discussion. Center of Gravity is one such issue that would need to be given careful thought. Any calculation would therefore be quite pointless. I would let people with better insight into aircraft design (design experience?) handle this issue.

 

[My-Analogous]

@Bratva @Chak Bamu
How much increase in range JFT can have by,adding dorsel spine like B into A model.

After takeoff avg 50 to 60% fuel utilized. So if we say 60% then by adding 60% means it can be more then double.

 

[Windjammer]

What do American pilots think of the JF-17 development?


Bob Keeter, Retired flight test / systems engineer / engineering lead
Answered Aug 10 2017

I'm not a pilot but….

Reading the published performance specifications, and adding a bit of fudge for marketing purposes, I think that the JF-17 is probably equivant to an early model F-16 with a few of the problems discovered in the earlier F-16s addressed. For example, instead of the underslung inlet, the engine inlets are side mounted. This complicates the task of getting clean airflow to the engine but allows for a much larger radar aperture. The times where the side mounted inlets really pose a problem are rare and the increased radar aperture is ALWAYS a good thing!

The listed capabilities would seem to suggest a very capable multirole aircraft, but a critical element, particularly in a multirole aircraft is the efficient integration of the parts. How well these impressive capabilities are integrated in the JF-17 is still to be seen.

The fly away cost figures show it at about 50% of the cost of an equivalent F-16. If that cost advantage continues through its life cycle, it could be a very attractive aircraft for many cost-restricted air forces.

 

[MastanKhan]

After takeoff avg 50 to 60% fuel utilized. So if we say 60% then by adding 60% means it can be more then double.

Hi,

The limitation is with the Oxygen supply to the pilot---. Everything else can be modified to increase the range---.

That is why---as I have talked about the size---this aircraft is 25% too small for being an ideal sized single engine aircraft---.

With a refueller---you can make it fly for unlimited number of hours---but what are you going to do with the 1 1/2 or 2 hours of oxygen supply to the pilot thru the oxygen bottle that @Indus Falcon had pointed out a longtime ago?

 

[MiG-35-BD]

JF-17 Sales opportunity in Turkey. Just an opinion:

Turkey is now effectively in a long drawn military campaign in a highly contested airspace. In addition, its opponents now have anti-aircraft capabilities. One of its potential opponents is the US. With Turkish F-16s using FOF from NATO, it may not be able to target US aircraft.

Furthermore, with bugs found in Turkish F-16s, capabilities may be switched off or degraded.

Other points:

1. Due to the long nature of the war, high end platforms like the F-16 will quickly gain fatigue.
2. Turkish F-16s are ageing already, so this is doubly a concern

In this situation, the JF-17 is near ideal for ground pounding and self-defence. PAF may be able to give a squadron out of its own inventory or lease 2 squadrons.

This would drastically help the Turkish effort and be a cost effective solution, while saving F-16 airframes for a greater potential conflict.

Wish the PAF was more proactive in its marketing. OR perhaps it is and I am just not aware. Or perhaps someone like Mastan Khan can shed some light. He would be an ideal sales agent for the JF-17 with his sales background.

Turkey seriously needs sustained close air support. And fast, as the war is progressing at pace.

I think the attack helicopters are not doing as effective a job as envisioned, because they are slower and easier to shoot with manpads and increasingly more sophisticated air defenses. They would also be a sitting duck if challenged by a jet.

I think its something to think about. Don't you think?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Turkey has their own Software for plane can't be messed with

 

[MastanKhan]

JF-17 Sales opportunity in Turkey. Just an opinion:

Turkey is now effectively in a long drawn military campaign in a highly contested airspace. In addition, its opponents now have anti-aircraft capabilities. One of its potential opponents is the US. With Turkish F-16s using FOF from NATO, it may not be able to target US aircraft.

Furthermore, with bugs found in Turkish F-16s, capabilities may be switched off or degraded.

Other points:

1. Due to the long nature of the war, high end platforms like the F-16 will quickly gain fatigue.
2. Turkish F-16s are ageing already, so this is doubly a concern

In this situation, the JF-17 is near ideal for ground pounding and self-defence. PAF may be able to give a squadron out of its own inventory or lease 2 squadrons.

This would drastically help the Turkish effort and be a cost effective solution, while saving F-16 airframes for a greater potential conflict.

Wish the PAF was more proactive in its marketing. OR perhaps it is and I am just not aware. Or perhaps someone like Mastan Khan can shed some light. He would be an ideal sales agent for the JF-17 with his sales background.

Turkey seriously needs sustained close air support. And fast, as the war is progressing at pace.

I think the attack helicopters are not doing as effective a job as envisioned, because they are slower and easier to shoot with manpads and increasingly more sophisticated air defenses. They would also be a sitting duck if challenged by a jet.

I think its something to think about. Don't you think?

Hi,

Again---the size comes in question---. With a 25% larger size than the current model---this aircraft would have attracted many more buyers---.

The lack of two seater created many obstacles in the sales process---. Even though the Paf would have an operational 2 seater shortly---its absence has possibly cost Paf at least a 100 + sales.

Paf might be happy with this size---but many other nations may not be.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

Hi,

Again---the size comes in question---. With a 25% larger size than the current model---this aircraft would have attracted many more buyers---.

The lack of two seater created many obstacles in the sales process---. Even though the Paf would have an operational 2 seater shortly---its absence has possibly cost Paf at least a 100 + sales.

Paf might be happy with this size---but many other nations may not be.

I don't think size is an issue for Turkey as the operations are going to be along the border and the JF-17 -in any case- has enough size to cover all of Syria and Iraq.

With its low operational costs, it could do the job, saving the F-16 flight hours, at the same time, without the problem of NATO friend or foe issues, along with the bugs in the plane. The bugs means the US will always know when, where the Turks are and are likely going to bomb.

further, electronics in the NATO planes won't allow them to target a US plane. It would mean the US can shoot Turkish planes if they like, but Turkish planes won't be able to shoot missiles at them.

Please see my previous post as to the host of other issues why Turkey needs a ground attack aircraft with a2a capability urgently.

Wanting a bigger plane is good, but involve a host of issues.

PS: For posters who don't know, Turkish F-16s are bugged by the US. Bugs were found in a special sealed component when one Turkish plane crashed. What such a bug could do, or others such as malware in the software, no one knows. Turkey doesn't "have its own software" no one researches a plane's intricate software and builds a new one, that is not a serious statement.

 

[My-Analogous]

Hi,

Again---the size comes in question---. With a 25% larger size than the current model---this aircraft would have attracted many more buyers---.

The lack of two seater created many obstacles in the sales process---. Even though the Paf would have an operational 2 seater shortly---its absence has possibly cost Paf at least a 100 + sales.

Paf might be happy with this size---but many other nations may not be.

That is why we need something like that on JF17 and it is easily available as well
https://aerocontent.honeywell.com/a..._Brochures-documents/Life_Support_Systems.pdf

 

[SipahSalar]

In this situation, the JF-17 is near ideal for ground pounding and self-defence. PAF may be able to give a squadron out of its own inventory or lease 2 squadrons.

As far as i know, JF-17 is not optimized for ground attack role even now. It might have been symbolically used in FATA but almost all of the airstrikes have been carried out by the F-16s.

Does JF-17 even have a targeting pod for accurate laser guided strikes?

 

[MiG-35-BD]

As far as i know, JF-17 is not optimized for ground attack role

How do you know this? Are you involved in the JF-17 operations or do you have any evidence to back this statement?

QUOTE="SipahSalar, post: 10249713, member: 164864"]
Does JF-17 even have a targeting pod for accurate laser guided strikes?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you need to read up on the JF-17s and look through the information pool.

 

[ziaulislam]

As far as i know, JF-17 is not optimized for ground attack role even now. It might have been symbolically used in FATA but almost all of the airstrikes have been carried out by the F-16s.

Does JF-17 even have a targeting pod for accurate laser guided strikes?

well atleast it has been advestied to be suffiecnt
laser guided and GPS guided bombs are used with turkish pod
why didnt PAF attained the chinese pod first, i dont know
probably they wanted a case for f-16s in WOT
but it doesnt matter any more

 

[air marshal]

2P46
http://falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/570

 

[Black Bird]

well atleast it has been advestied to be suffiecnt
laser guided and GPS guided bombs are used with turkish pod
why didnt PAF attained the chinese pod first, i dont know
probably they wanted a case for f-16s in WOT
but it doesnt matter any more

Sir I think PAF use f 16 to attack TTP to make their case strong for getting more advance f16 from USA.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir I think PAF use f 16 to attack TTP to make their case strong for getting more advance f16 from USA.

wount happen usa dont care abt taliban..india is more imp