JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Chak Bamu]

From what I have read that from the frontal aspect the reduction is enough that current Indian fighter firecontrol RADARs cannot get a reliable lock at BVR ranges.

Too vague a statement. Which radars & which fighters? How to confirm such an incident reliably? Then there is the issue of two fighter aircraft closing at relative supersonic speeds without one of them actually crossing the border and creating an incident.

JF-17 is not optimized for low-observability. In its current configuration it does not hide its various antennas & sensors, and obviously needs to carry fuel tanks & missiles. Therefore, I find the above statement hard to believe.

 

[ghazi768]

I've heard from a number of sources that the DSI has contributed to frontal RCS reduction to a good degree. The question is, how much.

I think this question is not answerable here. But variable geometry inlets are one of the biggest cause of radar returns and their absence results in significant reduction. Other big causes of returns are protrudings and antennas, look more closely under the front fuselage.. it is incremental but useful..

 

[sparten]

Too vague a statement. Which radars & which fighters? How to confirm such an incident reliably? Then there is the issue of two fighter aircraft closing at relative supersonic speeds without one of them actually crossing the border and creating an incident.

Su-30. Every thing about the JF-17 was designed to deal with the MKI.

JF-17 is not optimized for low-observability. In its current configuration it does not hide its various antennas & sensors, and obviously needs to carry fuel tanks & missiles. Therefore, I find the above statement hard to believe.

And I nor anyone else has ever called it a "Low Observable" plane. Very roughly, there are two types of RADAR modes, track and search and fire control. The later are whats used to send a missile up an enemy planes nose. To be useful, it needs to emit a narrow focused beam. L/O aircraft are designed to be difficult to track and nearly impossible to get a fire control lock on.

What the DSI inlets do is essentially nothing for tracking, but they do decrease the distance that a fire control RADAR can get a reliable lock and a firing solution.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Su-30. Every thing about the JF-17 was designed to deal with the MKI.


And I nor anyone else has ever called it a "Low Observable" plane. Very roughly, there are two types of RADAR modes, track and search and fire control. The later are whats used to send a missile up an enemy planes nose. To be useful, it needs to emit a narrow focused beam. L/O aircraft are designed to be difficult to track and nearly impossible to get a fire control lock on.

What the DSI inlets do is essentially nothing for tracking, but they do decrease the distance that a fire control RADAR can get a reliable lock and a firing solution.

DSI does contribute to hiding Engine fan blades. By eliminating splitter plates, the RCS is reduced a bit. But then JF-17 has all those antennas and fuel tanks sticking out. I am not sure the RCS of a normal configuration JF-17 is so low than the massive radar of SU-30 would find it difficult to get a lock onto it.

We can at best guess since I think only IAF would know conclusively whether or not JF-17 can defeat / avoid / delay SU-30's radar lock. I am surprised at the confidence with which you made that statement. How can you do that? Do you have any reference, source, link, etc... ?

 

[sparten]

The DSI was installed after testing with Chinese Su-30MKK which have similar perfromance to the MKI.

 

[his5850]

How Pakistan counter F 16 Production US-India Deal
is Pakistan should buy an other 4th generation plane or wait for 5th generation FC-31???????? your thought

 

[mdcp]

Pakistan should invest in radars, anti air missiles defense and laser weapons

 

[messiach]

Correct. Can also cause un-favourable thermal signatures. RCS reduction? CVF X.224 - X.112 (estimated).

I've heard from a number of sources that the DSI has contributed to frontal RCS reduction to a good degree. The question is, how much.

3 different DSI configurations were tested.

The DSI was installed after testing with Chinese Su-30MKK which have similar perfromance to the MKI.

 

[Hamza913]

How Pakistan counter F 16 Production US-India Deal
is Pakistan should buy an other 4th generation plane or wait for 5th generation FC-31???????? your thought

Focus on upgrading and producing the JF-17 whilst making our own 5th gen fighter jet (already going through design phase), and buy some more 5th gen planes from Turkey and China.

The 3rd block of JF-17 should be able to counter even the latest F-16 block. Besides, I am sceptical as to whether or not the IAF will induct the F-16. I think they'll stick with Tejas and Rafale to replace their ageing fleet, along with some Gripens.

 

[Dazzler]

Correct. Can also cause un-favourable thermal signatures. RCS reduction? CVF X.224 - X.112 (estimated).

by unfavourable theremal signature I presume negative IR signal right? If so, it would become quite a challenge to detect it up there.
Umm, in layman terms, how much should the value be in terms of RCS? I guess it should fall somewhere between 1.5 - 2.2 in clean configuration, depending upon the angle the radar waves hit the airframe?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Correct. Can also cause un-favourable thermal signatures. RCS reduction? CVF X.224 - X.112 (estimated).



3 different DSI configurations were tested.

What does CVF stand for?

 

[sparten]

Reduction in RCS in clean configuration in not particularly hard or useful. Its the reduction in return while carrying a normal load that provides advantage.

I do know the PAF was fairly skeptical of the concept when CAC first proposed it.

 

[Windjammer]

Seems the Block-2 have been given a darker two tone grey compared to the earlier pale grey scheme.

 

[Tempest II]

Seems the Block-2 have been given a darker two tone grey compared to the earlier pale grey scheme.

Check the plane in the national flag. The green and red are "dark". The whole image has been edited to look darker.

 

[Zhukov]

How Pakistan counter F 16 Production US-India Deal
is Pakistan should buy an other 4th generation plane or wait for 5th generation FC-31???????? your thought

What ia there to counter for a plan that is to come a decade later. By that time most of our F16s would have been retired.
And J31 would be operational. I dont see any logic for india to spend billions of dollar in procuring F16 line except that india is scrapping TEJAS and HAL initialtive. Instead the Replacement of obsolete 3rd generation Indian fleet of Mig21 jaguar and Mih 27 is going to be F16s now.
F16 induction means a death warrant for tejas or more useless dollars spent on multiple aircraft types.