JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[SQ8]

Hi,
Sir
1, as you mentioned who said we are dependent on F16. Actually yes we are dependent only on this Jet as we don't have any other fighter - that is the reason After successfully induction of JF17 Block 1, 2 and soon Block 3 will be in force. we are keep seeking US help to get some used f16.
I have one question as you are most senior member here. please tell me and our other Fanboy's Do you really think with current F16 fleet we can face indian su30, Mig29 M2k etc... soon they are going to get Rafale? what are our plans to go against these threat?
i didn't to challenge anyone here or our PAF. i just said what is truth as we are just talking but not a single action been taken from our PAF or government. i believe. MEN behind the machine is good reason to give just to keep others mouth shut. but in reality its not truth.
if that is the fact we won't lose our valued soldier/fighter pilots in crashes.

if we come on china's help. we Pakistani use to say and many PDF member says. that china and pakistan are brothers and can do anything when it comes to Pakistan so why not they can help when we will ask them to buy their jets. they will help to convince russia to sale J-series to PAF. only if we ask. but i don't think we will ask.

because we will go for jordan F16 or new one as per the ACM interview.

regarding fund availability.
Sir its not just me. i think you also knows and many on this foram knows that we must have funds but not using to guard our nation. we as Nation should ask where are those funds going..
we are just tired by hearing funds are saving for Fifth gen fighter. which is about 5 - 8 yrs from now on.
what about now? what if we are in war?
we will go in war with our might 76 F16? plus we have big stock of junks
apart from JF17.

please correct me where i am wrong.

Thanks.

The current PAF force structure includes F-16s, JF-17s, Mirages and F-7s.
Each of these aircraft has a specific role.
Please go through this as it answers most of your questions
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jf-17-thunder-made-for-the-paf.398270/

My objection is not to challenging statements and ideas, but rather that these come from information and research; not just because you heard from one person's opinion.

If you find something incoherent in that write up- ask, criticise & correct- but do it eith the background knowledge on hand and logic.

 

[MastanKhan]

Air chief said that JF17 block 3 will be in service in 2019-20. So its means we have some measure changes based on 9 years experience and output of PAF pilots. So i am expecting some handsome changes and JF17 will be next level beast

Hi,

What I heard from the ACM interview was that BLK 3 would go into production in 2020---.

To go into service---another year or so---.

 

[WarFariX]

Hi, this is my first post ever on pdf, been a visitor for ages and always kinda felt well represented by MK anyways. Reason for my post is the excellent performance of this thunder/ pilot, i think Mudassir is his name. Wow, best ever performance and i have seen a few over the years and dont mean the flares thingy. The tightest thunder turn with extreme engine control made it glide just before the aircraft turned into the slow run and was next to magical. Reminded me of the F16 performance at F9 park. Nothing short of "atleast" an engine tweak or this guy is the best thunder pilot out there. I have my own vid to prove it too but didnt you guys notice it? Dont blame you, Came home and saw it on PTV rerun and the close frame camera work just makes it look ordinary.

his name is Wing commander Yasir Mudassir. He performed at many events . Some of which i have knowledge is Paris air show , RAeS airshow kamra , 2017 parade , and too many times before...He is one of the best thunder pilot and famous in Airforce too...You will get to see his more flies very soon. My friend talks to him everyday and he is interest8ng person.

 

[araz]

Air chief said that JF17 block 3 will be in service in 2019-20. So its means we have some measure changes based on 9 years experience and output of PAF pilots. So i am expecting some handsome changes and JF17 will be next level beast

The question in my mind is whether PAF will go for engine change with the RD93MA or WS13 Variant. Both should be on their way to achieving maturity. A little more power would go a long way in improving the performance of the bird.
A

 

[WarFariX]

Hi,

What I heard from the ACM interview was that BLK 3 would go into production in 2020---.

To go into service---another year or so---.

Minus 1 year

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

One very interesting statement from the ACM was ' mathematical analysis 'of the situation---what we need and how we stand upto the enemy---he showed statisfaction---.

Now what if the 'mathematical analysis' had a built in inherent flaw in its calculations---or the mathematical calculations of the enemy had a stronger math---then what---.

Where is the fallback plan---where is that fallback 'aircraft'---.

All mathematical plans bite the dust when sh-it hits the fan---all calculations---all scenarios---all stories of glory and grandeur dissipate in the thin air after the first full blooded punches are exchanged---.

 

[Mrc]

Where is the fallback plan

its called nuke

 

[MastanKhan]

its called nuke

Hi,

That is not a fallback plan---that is the endgame.

Fallback plan is like a division of armor hiding in the forest---or a strikes corps sitting behind the hills to unleash its power---or a couple of sqdrn''s of heavier aircraft available to take charge---.

Thank you.

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

That is not a fallback plan---that is the endgame.

Fallback plan is like a division of armor hiding in the forest---or a strikes corps sitting behind the hills to unleash its power---or a couple of sqdrn''s of heavier aircraft available to take charge---.

Thank you.

there is no game but the end game between nuclear powers....

there was a weakness in Pakistani air force before jf 17 and f 16 up gradation, in terms of a limited war, cold start like shallow thrust not escalating into full blown war....some thing like reverse kargil..

but that is gone now and since that situation was direct result of sanctions that happened in 90's, I don't think it would be repeated again.... plus nasr put end to such dreams....
also it was repeatedly stated by Pakistan that any limited war will be replied by full escalation.......

there is absolute no need to waste money on another 4th gen fighter as long as we can get a fifth generation within a reasonable time frame... that for me is less than 5 years... in my opinion.... although I would like to see rate of jf17 production to pick up to 30 a year as envisioned earlier

 

[MastanKhan]

there is no game but the end game between nuclear powers....

there was a weakness in Pakistani air force before jf 17 and f 16 up gradation, in terms of a limited war, cold start like shallow thrust not escalating into full blown war....some thing like reverse kargil..

but that is gone now and since that situation was direct result of sanctions that happened in 90's, I don't think it would be repeated again.... plus nasr put end to such dreams....
also it was repeatedly stated by Pakistan that any limited war will be replied by full escalation.......

there is absolute no need to waste money on another 4th gen fighter as long as we can get a fifth generation within a reasonable time frame... that for me is less than 5 years... in my opinion.... although I would like to see rate of jf17 production to pick up to 30 a year as envisioned earlier

Hi,

Thank you for your comments---.

It is but normal for a weakling to feel strong after being infused with power boosting substances---.

It only means that your scale of power may have gone up from a 2 to a 6 or a 7---.

But in comparison---the enemy is still a 10---. Indeed when you feel 3 times stronger than before---it gives that feeling of euphoria and invincibility that you have become really strong---but only for yourself---in relation to your previous position---and not in relation to the enemy's strength.

Please give some tactical reasons for your arguments---or thoughts---.

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

Thank you for your comments---.

It is but normal for a weakling to feel strong after being infused with power boosting substances---.

It only means that your scale of power may have gone up from a 2 to a 6 or a 7---.

But in comparison---the enemy is still a 10---. Indeed when you feel 3 times stronger than before---it gives that feeling of euphoria and invincibility that you have become really strong---but only for yourself---in relation to your previous position---and not in relation to the enemy's strength.

Please give some tactical reasons for your arguments---or thoughts---.

you are thinking about a conventional full fledged war.... that's not happening unless its nuclear... and in that case even having a 1000 gen 4 fighters is not going to make much of difference as a meagre cruise missile will be carrying more destructive power your 1000 gen 4s combined....

in a limited war, you don't need 100s of first line fighters....we have 140 plus... that's sufficient for now...

my concerns ... what ever they are,,,, are not viz via india at all.....

 

[MastanKhan]

you are thinking about a conventional full fledged war.... that's not happening unless its nuclear... and in that case even having a 1000 gen 4 fighters is not going to make much of difference as a meagre cruise missile will be carrying more destructive power your 1000 gen 4s combined....

in a limited war, you don't need 100s of first line fighters....we have 140 plus... that's sufficient for now...

my concerns ... what ever they are,,,, are not viz via india at all.....

Hi,

Another post without any tactics---strategy---gameplan---. Please count me out---thank you.

 

[Mrc]

Hi,

Another post without any tactics---strategy---gameplan---. Please count me out---thank you.

suit your self

 

[ali_raza]

Hi,

That is not a fallback plan---that is the endgame.

Fallback plan is like a division of armor hiding in the forest---or a strikes corps sitting behind the hills to unleash its power---or a couple of sqdrn''s of heavier aircraft available to take charge---.

Thank you.

same like a pakistani 1st armored division was hiding in somewhere near amritsar during indian brass tacks exercise which gave them shivers as per late gen hamid gul

 

[Thorough Pro]

Actually there is a point of buying more (brand new) Gen 4 J-10's, free from sanctions and common with our greatest Ally, China, and for these reasons
1 - In time of war, China can easily loan a squadron or two of J10's to give us numerical advantage / parity
2 - Chinese pilots can fly J10 within Pakistani borders to defend against intruding indian jets, while our jets penetrate targets within india
3- We are not able to finance even a full squadron of Gen 4, who in his right mind thinks we will be able to buy more than 24 Gen 5's?
4- Gen 5 (in Pakistan's case due to limited numbers) will only provide a psychological advantage and act as a force multiplier, real war would still be fought by Gen 4 and Gen 3 fighters that we can afford in relatively large numbers.
5 - J-10 provides an alternative to F-16 both in terms of range and load with the additional benefit of AESA and IRST
6 - We can't use F-16 to launch any stand-off munitions like Raad or CM-400, with J10 we get deep strike capability.

What weapons he is talking about that even f 16 does not have but are availabke on jf 17??




There is no point of buying another gen 4 fpighter... new fighter shud b gen 5... its expensive and resource consuming to induct a brand new platform... i think thats what airchief is elluding to...

I also dont like more f 16 policy though