Donatello
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Then what's the point of calling it indigenous? Just buy off the shelf. I am sure buying off the shelf takes a lot less time than 30 years.
JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 5]
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Then what's the point of calling it indigenous? Just buy off the shelf. I am sure buying off the shelf takes a lot less time than 30 years.
I do not think that anything is done in one nation. Look at JSF. The partners are from all over the world. China gets engines from Russia. Russia is not importing sofar but not frontrunner in some departments. JF17 has even FBW from Israel. So indegenous or TOT are terms we misuse.
About LCA. It would have been extremely cheaper to just get Mirage2000 line. A lot more potential and a lot less headache. But they wanted to learn something. They failed miserably. We opted for less advanced approach and did a decent job sofar.
Chak Bamu
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@Munir, your post #4007 was a bit cryptic. It took me a while to actually understand it. Consequently, I suppose your are misinterpreting Donatello who was addressing that post.
I had made a post requesting you to clarify that post (#4007), but deleted it once I understood (I think?) what you probably meant.
Plus speaking as a regular member, I would like to request you to not address LCA. It is not relevant to us. There is hardly any comparison, and then Indians get their ego worked up quite unnecessarily. Best not to talk about it. Not until it is inducted in numbers. I know better than most about its problems, but I hardly ever bring it up.
I had made a post requesting you to clarify that post (#4007), but deleted it once I understood (I think?) what you probably meant.
Plus speaking as a regular member, I would like to request you to not address LCA. It is not relevant to us. There is hardly any comparison, and then Indians get their ego worked up quite unnecessarily. Best not to talk about it. Not until it is inducted in numbers. I know better than most about its problems, but I hardly ever bring it up.
DANGER-ZONE
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Rajvir Batra
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Can anybody tell me what changes will block II thunder will have....we have to make the tejas mk 2 also
nomi007
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The SC
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He was talking about Tejas, can't you understand the confusion?
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Indus Falcon
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JF-17 Developments Indicate Aircraft Is Still On Track
Jun. 20, 2014
By USMAN ANSARI
Pakistani Air Chief Tahir Rafique Butt, center, briefs Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, left, as he sits in the cockpit of 50th JF-17 Thunder aircraft, co-developed and co-produced with China National Aero-technology Import and Export Corporation. (AAMIR QURESHI/AFP)
ISLAMABAD— Contrary to speculation, development of the JF-17 aircraft continues apace with avionics and weapons carriage capability improvements, work ongoing on future variants, and impending establishment of the third squadron.
Chief Project Director of the JF-17 program, Air Vice Marshal Javed Ahmed, told Defense News the program was “as per schedule and there are no delays,” saying the current fleet had logged 10,000 hours and flown over 13,500 sorties.
He also revealed the third squadron would be raised after Exercise High Mark 2014 toward the end of the year.
Chief among these improvements are avionics, with Ahmed highlighting they are aimed at improving “situational awareness” and the “performance and lethality of the aircraft,” but still centered on the NRIET KLJ-7 radar which supports the SD-10 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile.
However, building on local capability, “integrating some additional smart and indigenously developed weapons” is underway, though Ahmed did not specify.
Short-range air-to-air armament, however, still consists of the PL-5E II, a recent variant of an aged weapon.
Nevertheless, analyst and former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the Air Force is happy with Chinese missiles.
“Price per unit seems to be a likely factor, besides hooking them to the fire control computer for firing zone solutions, which would also cost a fortune,” he said.
Potential payload shortcomings have also been highlighted by analysts. The JF-17 is often seen with three large drop-tanks indicating low internal fuel capacity and/or high consumption by the Klimov RD-93 engine.
However, Ahmed says the three-tank configuration is for ferry flights or “extended operational training exercises/missions” with routine flights made “in clean or single-tank configuration.”
Therefore, for smaller nations and those conducting tactical missions, “it has the requisite reach to engage targets and can also provide required on-station time in an air defense role,” and aerial refueling “further augmented reach and endurance.”
Tufail is unconvinced, though, and highlights that 10,000 hours/13,500 sorties, equates to 45 minutes per sortie.
“Notwithstanding the aerial refueling capability [which has many operational and logistics limitations], the short sortie time may be a no-no for prospective buyers,” he said.
His most likely solution is not so straightforward, however.
“[Conformal fuel tanks] are absolutely essential to a multi-role JF-17, but these are not easy to install, since the aerodynamics of the aircraft is greatly altered and it would call for flight testing in all regimes, including certification of all stores anew.”
Ahmed says other solutions are being considered “based on customer requirements.”
“The dual rack ejector for bombs has already been integrated, flight tested and being flown in PAF. A similar concept of multimissile launcher is under evaluation for missiles,” he said.
Though largely operated by state-owned and Air Force-run Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Ahmed also highlighted progress on increasing private sector involvement.
“Several Pakistani vendors have been cultivated and brought up to the proficiency levels mandated by aviation programs. The nascent aviation industry in the private sector is taking root and is gradually enhancing its share in this program of national importance,” he said.
Though numerous analysts have commented on the lack of export sales despite well-publicized promotion and apparent interest from potential customers, Ahmed defends this apparent lack of success.
“Defense purchases, especially those of combat aircraft, are expensive undertakings and are therefore preceded by lengthy evaluations and detailed deliberations by the professional decision makers. The response that the aircraft is receiving is highly encouraging and the export orders may not be far off,” he said.
He also stressed that the JF-17 was still a highly attractive option in an age of austerity as it “offers a highly cost effective solution with cutting edge capabilities,” and that “no other contemporary combat aircraft offers the same capabilities in comparable price range.”
Ahmed also highlighted customized “avionics and weapon packages according to the specific requirements of each customer” as well as training, maintenance and logistics packages, which includes “indigenously developed customized solutions, testers and simulators.”
Ahmed did not, however, shed any light on reports the JF-17 could be offered in a wider package including the Chinese ZDK-03 AEW&C aircraft.
Looking forward, Ahmed confirmed aspects of the Block III avionics package, which would include the evaluation of an active electronically scanned array radar option along with other upgrades, and this process was also mindful of potential export customer requirements.
“At present, the Chinese and indigenous systems are performing well in JF-17 aircraft. However, there are different Western proposals and considerations for avionics systems of Block-III JF-17 aircraft which could also be an option for our customer countries,” he said.
Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank is unsure this will occur, but believes a “domestically produced engine may in the end tilt the balance towards a Chinese purchase.”
“They certainly have lots of units to replace,” he says.
Nevertheless, Shabbir said everything laid out by Ahmed “shows a well thought out road map for future variants and the capability they would provide.
JF-17 Developments Indicate Aircraft Is Still On Track | Defense News | defensenews.com
Jun. 20, 2014
By USMAN ANSARI
Pakistani Air Chief Tahir Rafique Butt, center, briefs Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, left, as he sits in the cockpit of 50th JF-17 Thunder aircraft, co-developed and co-produced with China National Aero-technology Import and Export Corporation. (AAMIR QURESHI/AFP)
ISLAMABAD— Contrary to speculation, development of the JF-17 aircraft continues apace with avionics and weapons carriage capability improvements, work ongoing on future variants, and impending establishment of the third squadron.
Chief Project Director of the JF-17 program, Air Vice Marshal Javed Ahmed, told Defense News the program was “as per schedule and there are no delays,” saying the current fleet had logged 10,000 hours and flown over 13,500 sorties.
He also revealed the third squadron would be raised after Exercise High Mark 2014 toward the end of the year.
Chief among these improvements are avionics, with Ahmed highlighting they are aimed at improving “situational awareness” and the “performance and lethality of the aircraft,” but still centered on the NRIET KLJ-7 radar which supports the SD-10 beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile.
However, building on local capability, “integrating some additional smart and indigenously developed weapons” is underway, though Ahmed did not specify.
Short-range air-to-air armament, however, still consists of the PL-5E II, a recent variant of an aged weapon.
Nevertheless, analyst and former Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail says the Air Force is happy with Chinese missiles.
“Price per unit seems to be a likely factor, besides hooking them to the fire control computer for firing zone solutions, which would also cost a fortune,” he said.
Potential payload shortcomings have also been highlighted by analysts. The JF-17 is often seen with three large drop-tanks indicating low internal fuel capacity and/or high consumption by the Klimov RD-93 engine.
However, Ahmed says the three-tank configuration is for ferry flights or “extended operational training exercises/missions” with routine flights made “in clean or single-tank configuration.”
Therefore, for smaller nations and those conducting tactical missions, “it has the requisite reach to engage targets and can also provide required on-station time in an air defense role,” and aerial refueling “further augmented reach and endurance.”
Tufail is unconvinced, though, and highlights that 10,000 hours/13,500 sorties, equates to 45 minutes per sortie.
“Notwithstanding the aerial refueling capability [which has many operational and logistics limitations], the short sortie time may be a no-no for prospective buyers,” he said.
His most likely solution is not so straightforward, however.
“[Conformal fuel tanks] are absolutely essential to a multi-role JF-17, but these are not easy to install, since the aerodynamics of the aircraft is greatly altered and it would call for flight testing in all regimes, including certification of all stores anew.”
Ahmed says other solutions are being considered “based on customer requirements.”
“The dual rack ejector for bombs has already been integrated, flight tested and being flown in PAF. A similar concept of multimissile launcher is under evaluation for missiles,” he said.
Though largely operated by state-owned and Air Force-run Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Ahmed also highlighted progress on increasing private sector involvement.
“Several Pakistani vendors have been cultivated and brought up to the proficiency levels mandated by aviation programs. The nascent aviation industry in the private sector is taking root and is gradually enhancing its share in this program of national importance,” he said.
Though numerous analysts have commented on the lack of export sales despite well-publicized promotion and apparent interest from potential customers, Ahmed defends this apparent lack of success.
“Defense purchases, especially those of combat aircraft, are expensive undertakings and are therefore preceded by lengthy evaluations and detailed deliberations by the professional decision makers. The response that the aircraft is receiving is highly encouraging and the export orders may not be far off,” he said.
He also stressed that the JF-17 was still a highly attractive option in an age of austerity as it “offers a highly cost effective solution with cutting edge capabilities,” and that “no other contemporary combat aircraft offers the same capabilities in comparable price range.”
Ahmed also highlighted customized “avionics and weapon packages according to the specific requirements of each customer” as well as training, maintenance and logistics packages, which includes “indigenously developed customized solutions, testers and simulators.”
Ahmed did not, however, shed any light on reports the JF-17 could be offered in a wider package including the Chinese ZDK-03 AEW&C aircraft.
Looking forward, Ahmed confirmed aspects of the Block III avionics package, which would include the evaluation of an active electronically scanned array radar option along with other upgrades, and this process was also mindful of potential export customer requirements.
“At present, the Chinese and indigenous systems are performing well in JF-17 aircraft. However, there are different Western proposals and considerations for avionics systems of Block-III JF-17 aircraft which could also be an option for our customer countries,” he said.
Analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium think tank is unsure this will occur, but believes a “domestically produced engine may in the end tilt the balance towards a Chinese purchase.”
“They certainly have lots of units to replace,” he says.
Nevertheless, Shabbir said everything laid out by Ahmed “shows a well thought out road map for future variants and the capability they would provide.
JF-17 Developments Indicate Aircraft Is Still On Track | Defense News | defensenews.com
Kompromat
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Keen obsevations.
Looking forward, Ahmed confirmed aspects of the Block III avionics package, which would include the evaluation of an active electronically scanned array radar option along with other upgrades, and this process was also mindful of potential export customer requirements.
“At present, the Chinese and indigenous systems are performing well in JF-17 aircraft. However, there are different Western proposals and considerations for avionics systems of Block-III JF-17 aircraft which could also be an option for our customer countries,” he said.
Looking forward, Ahmed confirmed aspects of the Block III avionics package, which would include the evaluation of an active electronically scanned array radar option along with other upgrades, and this process was also mindful of potential export customer requirements.
“At present, the Chinese and indigenous systems are performing well in JF-17 aircraft. However, there are different Western proposals and considerations for avionics systems of Block-III JF-17 aircraft which could also be an option for our customer countries,” he said.
“Notwithstanding the aerial refueling capability [which has many operational and logistics limitations], the short sortie time may be a no-no for prospective buyers,” he said.
His most likely solution is not so straightforward, however.
“[Conformal fuel tanks] are absolutely essential to a multi-role JF-17, but these are not easy to install, since the aerodynamics of the aircraft is greatly altered and it would call for flight testing in all regimes, including certification of all stores anew.”
Ahmed says other solutions are being considered “based on customer requirements.”
----It is clear our customers are still communicated with PAC to adjust the plans. Interesting about CFT and AESA for Block 3.
His most likely solution is not so straightforward, however.
“[Conformal fuel tanks] are absolutely essential to a multi-role JF-17, but these are not easy to install, since the aerodynamics of the aircraft is greatly altered and it would call for flight testing in all regimes, including certification of all stores anew.”
Ahmed says other solutions are being considered “based on customer requirements.”
----It is clear our customers are still communicated with PAC to adjust the plans. Interesting about CFT and AESA for Block 3.
Kompromat
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Indus Falcon
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We'll definitely need an engine upgrade before we get to this??
Kompromat
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RD-93MA
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Wasn't the replacement supposed to be the Chinese WS-13?
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