JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[VCheng]

Here's the really.. sad part.. quite a bit of the money for the JF-17 is Chinese money on loan to us as our money and sent to Chengu to become Chinese money.. Confucius smart NO?
With our current economy.. we having problems just paying off the interest on those loans.
The 18 block-52's are sorta our own cash.. but the other upgraded aircraft are just basically USAID being spent as we choose.
So the US is actually helping its economy by upgrading these jets for us.. in a somewhat ironic way.

Whether it is China or USA, the defense deals work the same way. China is no better or worse a friend to Pakistan in this regard. In this lies an important realization for many here, were it to happen.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Here's the really.. sad part.. quite a bit of the money for the JF-17 is Chinese money on loan to us as our money and sent to Chengu to become Chinese money.. Confucius smart NO?
With our current economy.. we having problems just paying off the interest on those loans.
The 18 block-52's are sorta our own cash.. but the other upgraded aircraft are just basically USAID being spent as we choose.
So the US is actually helping its economy by upgrading these jets for us.. in a somewhat ironic way.

If you ever get a chance to meet this man

Do ask a simple question about the reduction of F-16 total numbers. Besides you already know his role in JF-17 program.

 

[SQ8]

If you ever get a chance to meet this man

Do ask a simple question about the reduction of F-16 total numbers. Besides you already know his role in JF-17 program.

Ive met him once..
But never asked the question ..
But the major reason for all our limitations is cash.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Ive met him once..
But never asked the question ..
But the major reason for all our limitations is cash.

Yes, this is what i simply cannot deny !

 

[ANG]

Hi, I have been reading the past 10 pages and it has been a very lively, yet sidetracked discussion. One cannot look back and say the PAF should have done this or that, it is done, and now one lives with it.

I would like to point out, that the F-16 is very sanction prone. Kindly please recall, the US refused to transfer the technology to upgrade the older PAF F-16s at Kamra, and that is why they were sent to Turkey. Whereas, they offered India full production rights.

The F-16 is a technologically better than the current JF-17, but at what price? Cost, sanctions?

 

[Beast]

Hi, I have been reading the past 10 pages and it has been a very lively, yet sidetracked discussion. One cannot look back and say the PAF should have done this or that, it is done, and now one lives with it.

I would like to point out, that the F-16 is very sanction prone. Kindly please recall, the US refused to transfer the technology to upgrade the older PAF F-16s at Kamra, and that is why they were sent to Turkey. Whereas, they offered India full production rights.

The F-16 is a technologically better than the current JF-17, but at what price? Cost, sanctions?

PAF move on at the right time..... Let's just wait for the block 2 of JF-17. Is there any news of the block 2 prototype taking it flight?

 

[PakShaheen79]

Where is third squadron? when it would be inducted? .... I am running little impatient here as we haven't receive any update on the project lately.

 

[SQ8]

Where is third squadron? when it would be inducted? .... I am running little impatient here as we haven't receive any update on the project lately.

Perhaps an update will come soon.
There may actually be a squadron with pilots undergoing training and transition, but it may not have been activated yet.

 

[Pak123]

We will still have some 75 odd F-16's with Block-52 standard capabilities after three years...18 of them will have their internal jammers and extended range via the CFT's.

Don't we have 63 F-16's ? Where did that number came from ?

 

[ziaulislam]

i think we should quote the right source instead of rumours, some people quote links for engines been blocked for thunder when the offcials from russia visted pakistan and denied it completely.
acussion of rafale or typhoon were out of question because we couldnt induct them in large number, f-16s would always be a better deal for us instead of typhoon or rafale unless we can spend 20 billion dollars.

what we for get that even if we had brought ome fighters india would buy more..we cant take the lead we can follow this race.
the thunder is atleast from the same generation with decent BVR capablities and in centric conflict will have a good chance against any fourth gen fighter. the real problem for PAF will arise with PAK-FA and PAF has to seriously think to counter it.

buying aircrfts isnt the only thing. weapons, infrastructure, future upgrades and running cost are to be taken in consideration..which most members neglect to do so.
it would have been disaster for PAF to buy 36 rafale and PAF officials knew it. thats why it was never really considered. the option at that time were either thunder with french avionics or further f-16s.because paying for 36 rafale at 5 billion would seem insane if you can get 150 thunders with most advance French avionics or 50-60 odd block 52 both requiring little separate training, infrastructure etc spending. Gripen was considered for some time because f-16 wasnt available and thunder was yet at very early stage, once thunder Started to role, gripen was dropped, as french avionics based thunder would have been identical in performance to the gripen C.



i was under impression we had 63 vipers. with possible 14 more yet to be delivered. how come the number is 75?..

 

[DARKY]

LOL... What Russia has that interest China? Probably S-400 but other than that,none... You still believe the Su-35 news that Chinese interested to buy from Russia. I bet you are the last one on earth to know that's a hoax.

The Jamestown Foundation: Beijing Denies Russian Rumors of Su-35 Purchase; Evaluating China's Intelligence Penetration of Taiwan



I tell you what, its a complicated situtation in Russia regarding China. Russian government Duma loves China and badly need China help to ensure their stability and their status as major power. But ordinary Russia do not like China becos all the while , Chinese in their eyes is inferior , suddenly China is second largest economy power and start to overtake Russia in many areas.. Russia givernment will by all means try to get into Chinese good book while Russia media will try all means to smear China reputation. Sometimes, Russia government will also do some small unfriendly action towards China just to please it citizen and try to paint, they are not licking China boot that much. Overall, russia government know what is the big pictures..

So in Pakistan/INdia war happen, as long as request by Chinese. Engine supply to PAF will never be cut off. In fact, Russia maybe tell Chinese the know how of their T-90 tanks, Mig-29K... Then Pakistan and China will have the upper end when dealing with India Russia arsenal..

Sorry son.. the world is not as simple as what they show you in China... there's many thing which China would dream of having from Russians even now.. name a single weapon platform which China has and is not based on a Russian weapon system... Its not that they need you but you need them more than they do... mention a single country who would oppose a US invasion of China.

You yourself stated that China wanted to buy Su35 from Russians which they refused an the issue was covered up by arrestor cable issue... and now you are posting a link to deny what you yourself posted... are you all right here.. there's many thing which Su35 have and China is struggling to achieve in spite of the superpower status which CCP has given to itself.... from Ibris to Al-41F to OLS-35... to SAP ECM and Jammers and what not name the single comparable system which China has or is not struggling to get.

At last If the Russians are so willing to share their best weapon system tech. with China why are your weapon system still 20 years behind the the Russians systems.. even today China is struggling to renovate the Russian carrier and RE its old planes or engines... such is the sorry state of Chinese Aircraft manufacturing that it still struggles and has to copy Russians with the help of Russian engineers... and there are some internet leather bags who are so shameless that they feel they need you more than what they do.

 

[SQ8]

Don't we have 63 F-16's ? Where did that number came from ?

If the 14 EDA F-16 which the US of A promised us are delivered.

At last If the Russians are so willing to share their best weapon system tech. with China why are your weapon system still 20 years behind the the Russians systems.. even today China is struggling to renovate the Russian carrier and RE its old planes or engines... such is the sorry state of Chinese Aircraft manufacturing that it still struggles and has to copy Russians with the help of Russian engineers... and there are some internet leather bags who are so shameless that they feel they need you more than what they do.

What proof did you actually provide apart from pointless deriding?
I can make a similar statement about India.. please add some technical aspect to it.

 

[DARKY]

Really? and that's why you didn't post the HINDUSTAN TIMES link directly here .... Ok ... I accepted your wet dream as you are guest here .... Now please care to explain what transpired afterwards. Would you?

If engine is not very good one then Indians must simply have no problem with it, right?

The engines are certainly not good I can post numerous images of IAF Mig29 baaz landing on single engines with one engine shutoff.. think what would happen to a JF-17 in similar situation RD-33 have a poor MTBO with 400 hours and even less if currency hour is more during sorties... Mig29 is made as such that only 4 men can change the engine in very less time.. is JF-17 designed as such.. assuming it is.. are the supplies ensured assuming yes(much like India since in most blizzard situation as said by your Chinese friend they would supply engines to both India and Pakistan n case of war which is highly unlikely even in a die-hard fanboy imagination.).. do they have overhaul facilities for Kimovs in Pakistan... many holes my friend If you are willing to look into... I assume Pakistan isn't China that they can churn out a turbo-fan in one night's time... and that to better than what Russian have done in so many years of their aircraft anufacturing.

 

[Edevelop]

The engines are certainly not good I can post numerous images of IAF Mig29 baaz landing on single engines with one engine shutoff.. think what would happen to a JF-17 in similar situation RD-33 have a poor MTBO with 400 hours and even less if currency hour is more during sorties... Mig29 is made as such that only 4 men can change the engine in very less time.. is JF-17 designed as such.. assuming it is.. are the supplies ensured assuming yes(much like India since in most blizzard situation as said by your Chinese friend they would supply engines to both India and Pakistan n case of war which is highly unlikely even in a die-hard fanboy imagination.).. do they have overhaul facilities for Kimovs in Pakistan... many holes my friend If you are willing to look into... I assume Pakistan isn't China that they can churn out a turbo-fan in one night's time... and that to better than what Russian have done in so many years of their aircraft anufacturing.

We might not have overhaul facilities for Kimovs in Pakistan but what we will have in few years is WS-13, a more powerful engine. I can see licencely making it.

 

[DARKY]

What proof did you actually provide apart from pointless deriding?
I can make a similar statement about India.. please add some technical aspect to it.

Th PLAAF pilots have themselves complained about poor performances of Chinese engines(There's a very good document on internet which shows the shortcomings in their manufacturing process.)..a simple thing as their engineers working in 4 shifts(different sets of men) rather than two have serious implications on the quality of products they make.

Even Russian engines (from 80s) barring Type 30 have struggled to match with their western opponents (much of which is due to funding issues)... Russians have struggled to reach T/W ratio of 10 with their latest engines while China hardly manages 7 where as the latest American and European engines come with a T/W ratio of 11+.

I know where India stands.. the CCP propaganda channel doesn't work here.