JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Tempest II]

 

[Free Soul]

I m not at all comparing jf17 with any other jet that ofcourse would be foolish, what m trying to figure out ( from the senior and more knowledgeable members of pdf) that is jf17/j10 programs enough to counter IAF which is inducting high class jets or may b we would have liked to be in a better position than this but cant due to obvious reasons???

Firstly – Good luck with the quest of yours to find Senior and more knowledgeable members in PDF.

Regarding PAF being able to counter IAF, a definitive answer cannot be given obviously, both sides will get the answers when the situation arises.

In short some comparisons - Recent past India had the BVR edge but Pakistan then made its fleet BVR capable too. With AWACS our capability increased to counter India. The ratio in numbers of aircrafts stands at PAF 1 to IAF 2.5 i think, looking in the past they always had a numbers advantage and a ratio advantage of some where 1to 4, 1 to 6, so the current ratio is the lowest numbers advantage IAF has.

There are a number of threads comparing both air forces current and future projects, counter MMRCA, aircraft comparisons. Many good arguments and posts in there, do have a browse around.

Coming to the point of getting better aircrafts (likes of Typhoon, Rafael etc) simple reason is funds.
And i am a big advocator of the idea that – in long term JF-17 and J-10Bs would help Pakistan on the road to self reliance, JF-17 is the stepping stone for future indigenous and self reliant development in the field of military aviation, J-10B gives us freedom, embargo free and very good value for money. I hope in future Pakistan builds J-10s with a licence and advances its aviation industry.

P.S. You would find Posts from ‘Najam Khan’ very informative (I certainly did), have a looky at posts from some of our Mods too. And if you are an enthusiast then do a bit of research, many of the answers can be found on the internet you just need to find related info and put together the pieces.

 

[Pak47]

P.S. You would find Posts from ‘Najam Khan’ very informative (I certainly did), have a looky at posts from some of our Mods too. And if you are an enthusiast then do a bit of research, many of the answers can be found on the internet you just need to find related info and put together the pieces.

I strongly agree. Please refer to here.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/search.php?searchid=2756963

 

[subanday]

PAF seriously requires Long range hitting power, be it BVRs or SAMs .... we r exceptional at short ranges but need of the day is to let the enemy deterred by your REACH ..... HQ-9 and SD-10 .... plain n simple

 

[MastanKhan]

Firstly – Good luck with the quest of yours to find Senior and more knowledgeable members in PDF.

Regarding PAF being able to counter IAF, a definitive answer cannot be given obviously, both sides will get the answers when the situation arises.

In short some comparisons - Recent past India had the BVR edge but Pakistan then made its fleet BVR capable too. With AWACS our capability increased to counter India. The ratio in numbers of aircrafts stands at PAF 1 to IAF 2.5 i think, looking in the past they always had a numbers advantage and a ratio advantage of some where 1to 4, 1 to 6, so the current ratio is the lowest numbers advantage IAF has.

There are a number of threads comparing both air forces current and future projects, counter MMRCA, aircraft comparisons. Many good arguments and posts in there, do have a browse around.

Coming to the point of getting better aircrafts (likes of Typhoon, Rafael etc) simple reason is funds.
And i am a big advocator of the idea that – in long term JF-17 and J-10Bs would help Pakistan on the road to self reliance, JF-17 is the stepping stone for future indigenous and self reliant development in the field of military aviation, J-10B gives us freedom, embargo free and very good value for money. I hope in future Pakistan builds J-10s with a licence and advances its aviation industry.

P.S. You would find Posts from ‘Najam Khan’ very informative (I certainly did), have a looky at posts from some of our Mods too. And if you are an enthusiast then do a bit of research, many of the answers can be found on the internet you just need to find related info and put together the pieces.

Hi,

In power projection it is lot more now----. When one iaf aircraft ( su30 ) can carry 4 times the number of bvr's as compared to a pakistan aircraft---it is 4 times power projection----. They also have a higher number of bvr capable aircraft---.

The superiority in the numbers in the past and the results of the past combats are of 'feel good' value now---. Current day missiles are a 1000 times deadlier and accurate ----electronic warfare package has been taken to a level never ever seen before---and on top of that smart weapons systems have totally changed the playing field---.

In order for you to compete---your 2/3rd of aircraft need to compete with the opponents top tier air craft mano a mano---.

Also---as the poster suggested---pakistan needs long range surface to air missile batteries---.

 

[Tempest II]

If I remember correctly, for the Iraqi invasion, the radar guided SAMs and AAAs were silenced early or forced to operate blindly due to ARMs.

 

[SBD-3]

If I remember correctly, for the Iraqi invasion, the radar guided SAMs and AAAs were silenced early or forced to operate blindly due to ARMs.

one word, Ravens, they were consistently deployed in early stages to blind Iraqi Radar Network in support of both WW as well as strike support.

 

[Tempest II]

one word, Ravens, they were consistently deployed in early stages to blind Iraqi Radar Network in support of both WW as well as strike support.

Yes, true. So I guess while you need to be able to go manual as back-up, mastery in EW is very essential. I believe there is a strong argument to develop electronic optical systems as these are less prone to jamming or even “fire-and-forget” missile with EO guidance instead of radars. … … Yes, weather would be an enemy … … What about AESA radars for SAMs, AAAs and MRAAMs benefiting from the LPI hence jamming and ARM-proof? … … Yes, eventually someone will get there and counter these.
With IR-jamming and dazzlers/blinders, high energy, laser type dazzlers against EO systems will be coming.
If you imagine something like the WMD-7 pod weight about 200kg with its laser, TV and IR systems. Say by removing the IR modules, you reduce the weight by 50kg to 150kg and by miniaturisation you shed another 50kg, you then end up with a 100kg laser (for distance) and TV (for recognition) system that you mount as part the terminal guidance unit for a medium to long range missile.
Yes, I might be confusing and probably this should have been on other thread elsewhere … … sorry.

 

[Free Soul]

Hi,

In power projection it is lot more now----. When one iaf aircraft ( su30 ) can carry 4 times the number of bvr's as compared to a pakistan aircraft---it is 4 times power projection----. They also have a higher number of bvr capable aircraft---.

The superiority in the numbers in the past and the results of the past combats are of 'feel good' value now---. Current day missiles are a 1000 times deadlier and accurate ----electronic warfare package has been taken to a level never ever seen before---and on top of that smart weapons systems have totally changed the playing field---.

In order for you to compete---your 2/3rd of aircraft need to compete with the opponents top tier air craft mano a mano---.

Also---as the poster suggested---pakistan needs long range surface to air missile batteries---.

Very rightly said Sir, only a fool would disagree with your argument.
and funny people sometimes just start panicking and putting Fatwas on concerns that you have raised

A big missile truck like SU30 with advanced avionics and long reach is one deadly beast.

we are where we are, there will always be questions over the choice of aircrafts that Pakistan has gone with, some would agree and some wont, some would say even spend more there are no other two ways ..

can’t speak for others but I can only hope that we have made right choices. and based very very limited understanding and knowledge of mine, I think we have made correct decisions. (taking in concideration economy, options available etc)

One of my older posts. (just my opinion)
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/161591-counter-mmrca-strategy-paf-4.html#post2640046

 

[SQ8]

Hi,

In power projection it is lot more now----. When one iaf aircraft ( su30 ) can carry 4 times the number of bvr's as compared to a pakistan aircraft---it is 4 times power projection----. They also have a higher number of bvr capable aircraft---.

The superiority in the numbers in the past and the results of the past combats are of 'feel good' value now---. Current day missiles are a 1000 times deadlier and accurate ----electronic warfare package has been taken to a level never ever seen before---and on top of that smart weapons systems have totally changed the playing field---.

In order for you to compete---your 2/3rd of aircraft need to compete with the opponents top tier air craft mano a mano---.

Also---as the poster suggested---pakistan needs long range surface to air missile batteries---.

What Pakistan needs is Money.. A strong economy..
Then it may fulfil all its wishlists.. instead of having "make-do lists".

 

[VCheng]

What Pakistan needs is Money.. A strong economy..
Then it may fulfil all its wishlists.. instead of having "make-do lists".

Ain't that the truth!

However, economies take decades of hard work to build robustly.

 

[Armstrong]

Ain't that the truth!

However, economies take decades of hard work to build robustly.

Or a decade worth of an absence of conflict !

 

[Tempest II]

I say the wish list of any military (or any institution for that matter) will be longer than what the budget available can buy; therefore how any military is constituted is a compromise. I am sure the Generals and politicians realise the need for the “compromise” military to still fulfil its obligations otherwise it is a token force and there just as targets for the enemy.

 

[Najam Khan]

Are you sure? I believe the PAF ACM then or some official press release did say a squadron of JF-17s for the PAF was being put together in China … ??? … I am not in a position to search now but either a video or a press release from Dubai had what I believe was a very official PAF statement that A SQUADRON WAS BEING PUT TOGETHER IN CHINA!!!

“Three squadrons are already flying the aircraft in Pakistan and one squadron in China,” he added.

Unfortunately our Defence Minister is the biggest jerk ever to take charge of MoD. He is basically a businessman, with decades of experience in shoe making but no past experience of handling defence issues and military trades. By no means his statement can be considered authentic (unless he is reading something prepared for him by MoD people.)

You can expect such comments from a shoemaker. Last month while talking to media at new Benazir International Airport at Fatejang (100km from Islamabad), he mixed J-10 and JF-17 by saying 'We are making J-10 our self, we don't need to buy them from China'...thanks to Mr. Khalid Choudhray (ex Chairman PAC - now Chairman FAA), who whispered in his ear and saved his arse by replying to media men.

 

[Jango]

Unfortunately our Defence Minister is the biggest jerk ever to take charge of MoD. He is basically a businessman, with decades of experience in shoe making but no past experience of handling defence issues and military trades. By no means his statement can be considered authentic (unless he is reading something prepared for him by MoD people.)

You can expect such comments from a shoemaker. Last month while talking to media at new Benazir International Airport at Fatejang (100km from Islamabad), he mixed J-10 and JF-17 by saying 'We are making J-10 our self, we don't need to buy them from China'...thanks to Mr. Khalid Choudhray (ex Chairman PAC - now Chairman FAA), who whispered in his ear and saved his arse by replying to media men.

Defence ministers are alot of other ministers are matric pass goons, what do you expect.