JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[MZUBAIR]

US sources have quoted that PAF F-16s were modified by PAF to have the capability to drop nuke bombs, so did some westn german intelligence agency way back in 90s.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/3374-paf-f-16s-nuke-delivery-system.html

Context of '1983-7: US Sells Forty F-16 Fighters to Pakistan, Possibly Reconfigured to Carry Nuclear Weapons'

Pakistan Special Weapons - A Chronology

If we can make A-5s, Mirages capable enough to drop nuke bombs, then what would be stopping us from making JF-17s capable enough to carry and deliver nuke bomb.

So its very doable and most probably would have already been made one of the functions of JF-17.

JF-17 can fire missiles Ra'ad Cruise missile which is capbale to take Nuke...........It can drop the fuel tanks so it can also drop nuke bombs.......But in this n coming era if Nukes would be used then they wil not be used as DROP FALL, that USA did against Japan..............Nukes will be launched from surface or from Aircrafts from hundredes of miles away....

 

[Arsalan]

@MZUBAIR
perhaps he was asking the ability to drop nukes as bomb and not via air launched cruise missile.
moreover, the Raad missile have not been integrated with JF-17 untill now as per my information..

regards!

 

[atlantis_cn]

But now u see the ultimate design is totally chnaged...

Briefly speaking(not accurate though), Super 7 changed the head and wing part of J-7 and increased it's scale, JF-17 changed the tail part of the Super 7. So now there is nothing similar between this new plane and the original J-7. But that does not changed the fact that JF-17 is evolved from the original J-7 model.

The works people put on Sabre II and later on Super 7 project are not wasted!

 

[SQ8]

Briefly speaking(not accurate though), Super 7 changed the head and wing part of J-7 and increased it's scale, JF-17 changed the tail part of the Super 7. So now there is nothing similar between this new plane and the original J-7. But that does not changed the fact that JF-17 is evolved from the original J-7 model.

The works people put on Sabre II and later on Super 7 project are not wasted!

While your project evolution theory is correct.. the design evolution theory is not. There was an evolution of ideas for the JF-17 but no link to the J-7. After the Sabre-II project was abandoned the design idea was changed from basing it on the J-7 to a new concept..borrowing from the abandoned mig Iz-33 and the Romanian jet. But till late 1998 no proper blueprints existed for the aircraft.. mostly conceptual drawings and a few technical ones. The work picked up during the 1999-2001 period when about a 100 PAF engineers were sent to Chengdu on rotations to boost the development work since at that time the Chinese were too preoccupied with the J-10. The design was a little rushed and many new ideas(new to the design team..most of them had no experience in designing a combat aircraft) were thrust in. Which is why although the prototype(really shouldn't be called one) flew in 2003 it had many flaws. PT-04 was the real prototype for the jet.
So.. in retrospect.. the JF-17.. has really nothing to do with the J-7.
Its the overall project that evolved from what was simply an avionics upgrade for the J-7 to an entirely new design more in tune with the 21st century...and yes.. aviationweek's bill sweetman can whine all about how we ripped of the DSI from the F-35.. we did... so what??..

 

[Arsalan]

there were independent work hours spend on designing and deciding the actualy concept. (low cost, multi role, open structure aircraft)
wind tunnels testing and all.
the development had to pass through all necessary steps related to development of a new fighter jet platform.
there is nothing in JF-17 that is borrowed from the Super-7/J-7 projects

so for me, even if the idea can be claimed to evolve from Super-7 but nothing more then the idea...

regards!

 

[VCheng]

Designing an aircraft is actually not that big of a deal, especially these days with the right computer software.

We should not confuse assembly with manufacture.

Consider the following and think of the JF-17 and the role of Pakistani manufacturing:

Structural Aluminum alloys? (including complex casting, forging, machining, friction stir welding)
Canopy?
Ejection seat?
Engine?
Avionics?
Weapons systems?

and even the little things like:

Tires?
Brakes?
Paint?

We need to have a much broader industrial base before we truly can indigenise complex machines such as the JF-17.

 

[Manticore]

Would you like to discuss the article?

Oh that's quite alright. I have my own resources.

As I just mentioned, I'd rather keep quiet

sir , i directed you towards jf17 threads because i read your article , and frankly after correcting it , i wouldve ended up making an entire new article.

you have a blog , that gives you strength --- and also responsibility to represent jf17 unbiasedly with full research on your part.

plz dont look down on the sources here--- they are far more credible and uptodate and share the info as quickly as its declassified.
-- when i told you to look at the jf17 thread -- you said [implied] 'thanks but no thanks'---- after that you didnt even answer taimis post=======

thats why people are calling you to stop trolling.--

Read the threads and then plz write a new updated article in place of the previous one.-- thanks

 

[VCheng]

@AntiBody: Fair enough, how about any comments on this post:

Designing an aircraft is actually not that big of a deal, especially these days with the right computer software.

We should not confuse assembly with manufacture.

Consider the following and think of the JF-17 and the role of Pakistani manufacturing:

Structural Aluminum alloys? (including complex casting, forging, machining, friction stir welding)
Canopy?
Ejection seat?
Engine?
Avionics?
Weapons systems?

and even the little things like:

Tires?
Brakes?
Paint?

We need to have a much broader industrial base before we truly can indigenise complex machines such as the JF-17.

I am not a troll. I speak honestly and fairly as best as I possibly can. Please read all my other posts too, not just those on the JF-17, before deciding.

Also, please give me a little more time to get settled in here. I am just getting started.

 

[Manticore]

@AntiBody: Fair enough, how about any comments on this post:

paf went through a 'lost decade' ... and india has not only achieved bvr capability , but also two 5th gen projects are on the way.

so instead of waiting to build up the tires / engine building capability [and waste another decade fruitlessly] --- its far more practical to quickly get the planes in the air , and gradually increase our inhouse manufacturing capability.

frankly , i reckon previous acm Tanvir was one of the bast airchiefs we had over the past years , in terms of jf17 project realization.

 

[VCheng]

paf when through a 'lost decade' ... and india has not only achieved bvr capability , but also two 5th gen projects are on the way.

so instead of waiting to build up the tires / engine building capability [and waste another decade fruitlessly] --- its far more practical to get the planes in the air , and gradually increase our inhouse manufacturing capability.

frankly , i reckon previous acm Tanvir was one of the bast airchiefs we had over the past years , in terms of jf17 project realization.

Oh I agree with the overall strategy being employed by the PAF given the huge economic and political constraints, and with your comments.

However, we should continuously evaluate our strengths and weaknesses honestly and accurately. Constructive crticism only helps us look at at our weaknesses.

After all, accepting that a deficiency exists is the first necessary step to removing it, right?

 

[Manticore]

Oh I agree with the overall strategy being employed by the PAF given the huge economic and political constraints, and with your comments.

However, we should continuously evaluate our strengths and weknesses honestly and accurately. Constructive crticism only helps us look at aour weaknesses.

After all, accepting that a deficiency exists is the first necessary step to removing it, right?

mr mastan khan is well known for his true self evaluations here on this forum---

i for one wanted to paf to setup j10 assembly line rather than to invest on the design / production of jf17. -- as j10 has far more payload/range/more powerful radar option.

i wanted 200 j10 and 100 jf17s

i even started a thread here ' paf shouldve invested more in j10' -- but the former paf folks guided and informed me that they needed a fighter which was far less costly in flying daily for cas -- which i didnt think of before that

 

[VCheng]

mr mastan khan is well known for his true self evaluations here on this forum---

i for one wanted to paf to setup j10 assembly line rather than to invest on the design / production of jf17. -- as j10 has far more payload/range/more powerful radar option.

i wanted 200 j10 and 100 jf17s

i even started a thread here ' paf shouldve invested more in j10' -- but the former paf folks guided and informed me that they needed a fighter which was far less costly in flying daily for cas -- which i didnt think of before that

To be honest, I do not know anyone here or their history, but I hope to learn some of that as I go along.

I do not want to go off topic here and talk about my experience or education, or anybody else's, but I will say this: my credentials are robust, and that all opinions must be respected, regardless.

PAF has tremendous constraints, and its personnel are doing a splendid job, as they always have, and always will.

Of that I am sure.

The JF-17 is an important step forward, but I do not want anybody to think that it is the answer to all the present and future issues PAF faces.

 

[Manticore]

To be honest, I do not know anyone here or their history, but I hope to learn some of that as I go along.

I do not want to go off topic here and talk about my experience or education, or anybody else's, but I will say this: my credentials are robust, and that all opinions must be respected, regardless.

PAF has tremendous constraints, and its personnel are doing a splendid job, as they always have, and always will.

Of that I am sure.

The JF-17 is an important step forward, but I do not want anybody to think that it is the answer to all the present and future issues PAF faces.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...fications-36-blk-52-prospects.html#post915509

 

[MastanKhan]

I do not want to go off topic here and talk about my experience or education, or anybody else's, but I will say this: my credentials are robust, and that all opinions must be respected, regardless.

PAF has tremendous constraints, and its personnel are doing a splendid job, as they always have, and always will.



Sir,

Welcome to the board---.

Your experience is the most important part of you and what you say---it substantiate your statements and claims---basically it lends you legitimacy---.

Opinion is like an ar-se hole and everybody got one---like all people are not equally respectable---so are not all opinions.

You should talk about some of your background.

 

[BATMAN]

V-cheng... you have no understanding of design development and ecnomic viability behind any product development.
Do you really think JF-17 would be viable if we start producing every bit and piece locally?
JFT is a our design and it dosn't matter if the parts come even from Timberland.
Today, you will hardly find any product which does not have Chinese parts.... so going by your formula we can claim US don't build cars, TV, computers etc?

Remember, what matter is a working design.

Trust me you are not the first one to bring up this issue, these issues had been discussed..... perhaps from the second page of JFT thread and you are certainly not last.
For a change........how about learning about what JFT has to offer after integrating all those parts.
It never bothered me where the paint or tiers come from!
What bother's me is spoiling a geniun and my favorite thread.

JFT is an A$$ buster and Pakistan is a co-designer, co-producer, co-financier and co-operator and nothing would change that.