JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Beast]

So are you implying that China should be better friends with India with whom bilateral trade stands at 30 billion USD as compared to Pakistan where it stands at 8 billion USD??

India has land dispute with China. Pakistan has no issue with China.

 

[Rafael]

So are you implying that China should be better friends with India with whom bilateral trade stands at 30 billion USD as compared to Pakistan where it stands at 8 billion USD??

No, I am implying that China would not want to cut off their bilateral trade with India for the sake of Pakistan. Same is the case with Russia vis-a-vis China and India.

 

[raveolution]

Which i was trying to say in the first place, albeit with wasted sarcasm. Hahaha

 

[alimobin memon]

wiki says klj7 has SAR capability

 

[SQ8]

Depends on programming the chip..
At least projects I know of on SAR in three different universities in Islamabad..
one was picked up by AWC.. you never know.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Warning: I have had enough of these vague comparisons and claims. please dont read any further if you are JF-17 fanatic. Just having a Mastan Khan moment

And I have to let it out now. So sorry the post#1432 says that Russians are soiling their pants because FC-1 is “extremely close to MiG 29. and then post # 1434 quotes it is 80-85% as good as latest versions of F-16. which ones? The ones offered to India or the ones that Israel operates or the UAE has? Does it include block 52 operated by Pakistan or not?


I wish I could share the enthusiasm of some posters here. So JF-17 is an excellent jet because it has RD-93 ( a Russian engine) where as MiG 29 ( a Russian aircraft) that has 2 engines with each as much thrust as a single RD-93 yet MiG 29 is declared a scrap yard and junk? I don’t get it.

These vague comparisons of 80% as good as “latest” F-16 or 86% as good as block 52 are also very irritating. F-16s of the same blocks sold to UAE and Israel are never the same. The ones sold to Turkey and Pakistan are not the same. I don’t know how we come up with these numbers of %age as good as so and so

All I know is in Air warfare there is no concept of a runner up.. there is no second place. So “extremely close” and 85% as good as F-16s don’t mean much when they will be facing SU30 or Typhoon.


I am sorry I sound negative but I will believe it when I actually see news of this craft in a training/ exercise with a MiG 29. I am sure PAF can find some friendly countries that operate that machine.

The biggest question mark over this program is the engine. If there is any truth in Russian concern over JF-17s threat to MiG29 sales then they will put a stop on the sale of their engines.

Except the ferry range, MiG 29 has more speed, has better thrust to weight, higher service ceiling and twice the thrust still our thunder is better? I am not even mentioning armament and avionics at the moment

We need to be careful about boasting about our plane that is actually manufactured by China we are only assembling it that mostly has Chinese parts with a Russian engine and very limited number of Western avionics because our neighbour successfully cuts out our deals or sabotages any sale prospects.

I will rest my case if it is proven that it is better than the legacy F-16s and the MLU ones as well. I wish that WS-13 matures soon so that the threat of Russian ban on RD-93 can be eliminated once and for all. I promise everyone that I will join all posters that will immediately declare the current JF-17 Russian engine as a junk and trash can.

Being upbeat is very good thing but jumping too high can put stain on the knees and give adversary a chance to laugh if claims fall flat. I hope that its future sale to other countries is not taken as a rule for it being better than MiG 29 because we cant compete Russian resources and package. MiG 29 is a well established and wide spread product. I will be happy that we can replace our planes and then if the situation allows, only sell it to very close countries who wont send it to India or Russia for a post-mortem.

Good day

 

[farhan_9909]

Warning: I have had enough of these vague comparisons and claims. please dont read any further if you are JF-17 fanatic. Just having a Mastan Khan moment

And I have to let it out now. So sorry the post#1432 says that Russians are soiling their pants because FC-1 is “extremely close to MiG 29. and then post # 1434 quotes it is 80-85% as good as latest versions of F-16. which ones? The ones offered to India or the ones that Israel operates or the UAE has? Does it include block 52 operated by Pakistan or not?


I wish I could share the enthusiasm of some posters here. So JF-17 is an excellent jet because it has RD-93 ( a Russian engine) where as MiG 29 ( a Russian aircraft) that has 2 engines with each as much thrust as a single RD-93 yet MiG 29 is declared a scrap yard and junk? I don’t get it.

These vague comparisons of 80% as good as “latest” F-16 or 86% as good as block 52 are also very irritating. F-16s of the same blocks sold to UAE and Israel are never the same. The ones sold to Turkey and Pakistan are not the same. I don’t know how we come up with these numbers of %age as good as so and so

All I know is in Air warfare there is no concept of a runner up.. there is no second place. So “extremely close” and 85% as good as F-16s don’t mean much when they will be facing SU30 or Typhoon.


I am sorry I sound negative but I will believe it when I actually see news of this craft in a training/ exercise with a MiG 29. I am sure PAF can find some friendly countries that operate that machine.

The biggest question mark over this program is the engine. If there is any truth in Russian concern over JF-17s threat to MiG29 sales then they will put a stop on the sale of their engines.

Except the ferry range, MiG 29 has more speed, has better thrust to weight, higher service ceiling and twice the thrust still our thunder is better? I am not even mentioning armament and avionics at the moment

We need to be careful about boasting about our plane that is actually manufactured by China we are only assembling it that mostly has Chinese parts with a Russian engine and very limited number of Western avionics because our neighbour successfully cuts out our deals or sabotages any sale prospects.

I will rest my case if it is proven that it is better than the legacy F-16s and the MLU ones as well. I wish that WS-13 matures soon so that the threat of Russian ban on RD-93 can be eliminated once and for all. I promise everyone that I will join all posters that will immediately declare the current JF-17 Russian engine as a junk and trash can.

Being upbeat is very good thing but jumping too high can put stain on the knees and give adversary a chance to laugh if claims fall flat. I hope that its future sale to other countries is not taken as a rule for it being better than MiG 29 because we cant compete Russian resources and package. MiG 29 is a well established and wide spread product. I will be happy that we can replace our planes and then if the situation allows, only sell it to very close countries who wont send it to India or Russia for a post-mortem.

Good day

SAd bt true

we should not compare JFT with MIG 29.

Mig 29 is very much better then JFT in all aspects

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

well i think mig 29 is very old and mature fighter ............
jf-17 is going to match her surely in near future and even may undermine her in different points.....

 

[notorious_eagle]

SAd bt true

we should not compare JFT with MIG 29.

Mig 29 is very much better then JFT in all aspects

In what aspects, i am curious to know. We all agree that the F16 overall as a machine is superior to the MIG29, the JF17 is more maneuverable than the F16. All it lacks is in the avionics and radar against the Block52's, with gradual upgrade of the JF17 and Chinese improvements in the avionics department, expect the later versions of the JF17 to be as good as the Block 52's. If the JF17 didn't meet our operational requirements, it would have never been inducted. We should consider ourselves lucky that we are getting such a wonderful machine for such low prices.

 

[Storm Force]

JFT

is a light weight fighter. Very limited range of chinease weapons and radar equally to early model Zhuk from russia.

F16 has 25% more thrust, massive weapons range and APG68 is a top range msa radar with twice range and processing speed.

JFT can defeat mig21 type fighters but would be over powered by bigger multi role platforms especially over enemy air space.

They will operate within PAK air space only.

THE F16 & FUTURE J10 WILL GO INTO ENEMY AIRSPACE ME THINKS

 

[Manticore]

f35 has lesser speed -- does it make it less capable? nowadays manouverability might be more important , as no matter how fast you can fly, you cant outrun a missile.

jf17 will be lighter than mig29-- thus lesser rcs

Thrust/weight ratio of mig is 1.01 --- sir murad and sir jabbar have already mentioned that jf17 ratio is 1

avionics / radars are still being upgraded ..maintenance , sortie turn out , awacs data linkage ,cost, all matter

instead of waiting to be fully capable of manufacturing, pac has been practical enough to gain that capability along with assembling the fighters, ensuring fast fighter induction

nobody is expecting jf17 blk 1 to stand 1 on 1 against the likes of eurofighter -- its paf's first attempt on making a fighter --- we will see what they have for us in blk2 -- composites will bring the weight down and payload capaxcity will increase--

 

[farhan_9909]

In what aspects, i am curious to know. We all agree that the F16 overall as a machine is superior to the MIG29, the JF17 is more maneuverable than the F16. All it lacks is in the avionics and radar against the Block52's, with gradual upgrade of the JF17 and Chinese improvements in the avionics department, expect the later versions of the JF17 to be as good as the Block 52's. If the JF17 didn't meet our operational requirements, it would have never been inducted. We should consider ourselves lucky that we are getting such a wonderful machine for such low prices.

I know JFT is a very Good fighter and i love JFT more then any other product made by Pakistan

but compairing it with Mig 29 is silly at present
t
e.g
Mig 29 Twin engine means more payload
Better radar then JFT,better avionics(now plzz dont say that chineese avvionics are better then russians)
More agile then JFT.just watch Mig 29 performance videos
More range
More payload
more speed
more hardpoints
higher thrust to weight ratio

the only thing in this scenery JFT defeat Mig is less price
bt Mig 29 also cost 35-40Mn USD
so nt a big different

I agree JFT very much manuverible after watching its zhuhai performance.

bt comparing it with Mig 29 at present is bad.

may be after few years it is comparable to Mig 29

 

[Areesh]

JF-17 at least can never beat Mig-29 in one department. Maintenance cost that is.

 

[farhan_9909]

JFT

is a light weight fighter. Very limited range of chinease weapons and radar equally to early model Zhuk from russia.

F16 has 25% more thrust, massive weapons range and APG68 is a top range msa radar with twice range and processing speed.

JFT can defeat mig21 type fighters but would be over powered by bigger multi role platforms especially over enemy air space.

They will operate within PAK air space only.

THE F16 & FUTURE J10 WILL GO INTO ENEMY AIRSPACE ME THINKS

yess.but it is nt that wat you are telling

what do you mean by limited range?
yes its radar may be nt good bt it is as agile as f-16.

At present cons in JFT

Radar range is medium
Need engine with +92KN( i calculated and if it has 92KN thrust then its T/w ratio is 1)

JFT can handle indian Mirage,LCA with awacs help

 

[Manticore]

[mig29]More agile then JFT.just watch Mig 29 performance videos
I agree JFT very much manuverible after watching its zhuhai performance.
it [JFT]is as agile as f-16.



JFT can handle indian Mirage

i'm really confused .. what are you trying to say?

f16 is one the most menov. fighters
jft is as menv , agile as f16

then how come jft is rubbish as compared to mig?



i would go with m2k over mig29 any day

paf did check out both m2k and mig29 before selecting f16

all the qualities you have posted are present in all 2engine fighters, which paf might not go for-- paf would like 2 single engine fighters instead of 1 double engined one