JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[MastanKhan]

Mastaan,

Do you realise that your long posts have no substance in them, are full of speculation and opinions based on third hand information. Why don't you give us some fact and figures or atleast some references to what your relatives share with you to substantiate your views on the JF17 which you forcefully share on this forum. Let me be devil's advocate and share with you the limitations of the JF17. The biggest risk is the powerplant atleast until a Chinese alternate become's available, the second issue is the avionics specifically the radar that is until it transitions from KLJ7 to KLJ10 and ultimately to a western option. Nobody is saying that JF17 has matured but when it is optimised it will be fairly potent platform for its role and cost. If you disagree please come up with specific technical issues not already mentioned above. Otherwise stop pretending to be an expert and a know it all. You are doing a great disservice to this forum and the youngsters who visit it by writing the type of stuff you do.

Hi,

Please don't open up your flank---if I say something it will upset the powers to be----but anyway If the flank is open---Igot to make themove---.


I don't have no relatives telling me nothing---I don't need relatives at this stage---I keep doing my research---and that research is involved in studying about chinese capabilites, mechanical, electrical, electronics and based on that information---what you put into the machine from one side----you can expect a ceratin item with a certain capabilities on the other side---.

Man---I don't know if I should laugh at the poster or cry in humiliation for my nation---he says the only problem is the engine and the electronics package----sir----that is all of the plane---what else is left of the plane is used when a pole is stuck up its behind and put outside the airbase and some chowks.

I am doing the biggest service to the young men of my country---

I want my youngmen to understand that getting the right equipment in the right frame of time---once you lose time---you will never get it back.

Sanction sanction sanctions---sanctions looming one more time---rd93 sanctions----french avionics sanctions---ws 13 issues.

Paf short changed the nation when it analysed after 2002 that the threat from india is over and didnot pursue for an air dominance fighter with energy and resource.

You all know that we needed something to counter the su 30 since the 90's---today we are still not halfway---today we are still behind the eight ball----.

All you pakistanis put your hand on your heart and swear to yourself---without making any excuses of sanctions---how do you feel like being in the same position of impotence as of the 1990's regarding the air domination.

Why would my posting be of disservice to the nation and young men of pakistan---when I am telling them to find a better and deadlier system than what we have so that we can also go to kill our enemy most of the time---not on a maybe.

 

[MastanKhan]

Seriously guys all i ever get to read on jf-17 thread is either "the praise that how cool Su-30 is" or "PAF should have asked us (the self proclaimed) defense analysts before opting for JF-17".
the recent Turkish interest in JF-17 & Russian's stumbling over the potential sales status of JF-17 is credible enough to realize the worth of JF-17.

Hi,

When the teacher stated in the class---" Please pay attention to what is being said "----well some people missed out---.

Jf 17 is going to be a top notch aircraft in its class---it is going to give the F 16 a run for its money in due time if it can survive the sanctions---. If all goes well---this aircraft is going to come out as an extremely high class lightweight fighter and ground attack air craft.

But the problem is that the enemy has an airforce tearing at its seams with a high number of heavy duty air dominance fighters. When a heavy weight meets a light weight---the light weight always looses---that is the law of nature---even though nature makes exceptions---nations don't build up their war machines on exceptions---nations also don't build up their war machines on what we will get after two years---nations build their defences of what they decided to buy 10 years ago---attained 5 years ago---trained on it day in and day out to be prepared for the war that we are going to fight tomorrow.

We wanted and aircraft before 2005---to make a stand for the nation---we won't have that aircradft by the year 2015---in the meantime---the enemy has also moved ahead with what it is going to get----so what we are going to get in 2015 will put us at par with what the enemy had in 2005---.

So in 2015----we are still standing at the base of the mountain---looking at each others faces----and asking---hey buddy---what happened to us.

 

[Jazzbot]

I think turkish interest in this JFT project is really a break through and a news of the year for PAF and Pakistan.. Turkish are experts in avionics and missile tech and they are working with US and European tech for over 2 decades now.. They have hell huge experience so if we join hands with Turks in JFT project then it will be a great win - win situation for both Turkey and Pakistan and also for china too.. Our engineers can get their hands at European and US techs via turkey and can gain expertise at lots of things including avionics etc.. Remember Turks are upgrading F-16's for years now..

There are lots of things which we can gain from turkey.. I see a jump of almost a decade in JFT project after turk contribution in it.. If china successfully provide new better engine for JFT and if it will be equipped with advanced Turk Avionics and Missiles than JFT will surely stand with State of the Art tech and will surely be a potent fighter.. Given his low cost, it will have huge market in Malaysia, Indonesia, Egypt and other developing countries as a back bone fighter..

Good going so far for JFT, i am seeing lots of big things coming our way because of this project..

 

[Jazzbot]

Hi,

When the teacher stated in the class---" Please pay attention to what is being said "----well some people missed out---.

Jf 17 is going to be a top notch aircraft in its class---it is going to give the F 16 a run for its money in due time if it can survive the sanctions---. If all goes well---this aircraft is going to come out as an extremely high class lightweight fighter and ground attack air craft.

But the problem is that the enemy has an airforce tearing at its seams with a high number of heavy duty air dominance fighters. When a heavy weight meets a light weight---the light weight always looses---that is the law of nature---even though nature makes exceptions---nations don't build up their war machines on exceptions---nations also don't build up their war machines on what we will get after two years---nations build their defences of what they decided to buy 10 years ago---attained 5 years ago---trained on it day in and day out to be prepared for the war that we are going to fight tomorrow.

We wanted and aircraft before 2005---to make a stand for the nation---we won't have that aircradft by the year 2015---in the meantime---the enemy has also moved ahead with what it is going to get----so what we are going to get in 2015 will put us at par with what the enemy had in 2005---.

So in 2015----we are still standing at the base of the mountain---looking at each others faces----and asking---hey buddy---what happened to us.

Though i agree with most parts of your posts, but still JFT project is not that bad for PAkistan as you are considering it.. If you hype enemy airpower at ur brain more than normal, then it will surely make you scared which is shown in ur posts (no offense)..

Everything is not for war, everything is not for fighting, lots of project are there for experience and preparation for future.. What do you think why india is wasting its money at LCA while they have access to more potent and better air crafts from all over the world.. Reason is, they want to gain expertise at home made air craft manufacturing.. Look they have initiated development almost every field of Air fighter development including Engine development, Avionics, radar and other state of the art techs just because of single project of LCA..

Same goes with Pakistan, before JFT we weren't even able to think about manufacturing of any fighter locally.. 90's saga is still there as horrible dream. Just because of JFT we are now familiar with lots of things and our engineers are getting experience at lots of advance techs with the passage of each and every day..

Now involvement of turks will bring a new era of learning for our engineers, we can co-operate with turk engineers in manufacturing of advanced state of the art avionics tech, advanced air - air and air - ground missile tech.. I think you better know Turk's capabilities in these fields and will consider their experience and wast knowledge regarding advanced techs..

Just be patient, and see, there is bright future of this fighter. even if at the end this fighter won't be able to score kills against su-30 etc still this project worth a lot for our newly born aviation industry and our in-experienced engineers..

if we'll be successful to create a good market for JFT in developing nations, we will be able to earn alot of money and we can use that money for whatever we'll want.. at least future will be better than today.. we can use that money to either purchase better fighters for front line attack against su-30's and other chanllenges imposed by enemy or we can use that money to start development of new better fighter with help of china and turkey in future.

Funding is main problem for pakistan right now, we need money and we all know we can't earn that much by selling wheat and rice to other nations..

 

[cw2005]

Though i agree with most parts of your posts, but still JFT project is not that bad for PAkistan as you are considering it.. If you hype enemy airpower at ur brain more than normal, then it will surely make you scared which is shown in ur posts (no offense)..

Everything is not for war, everything is not for fighting, lots of project are there for experience and preparation for future.. What do you think why india is wasting its money at LCA while they have access to more potent and better air crafts from all over the world.. Reason is, they want to gain expertise at home made air craft manufacturing.. Look they have initiated development almost every field of Air fighter development including Engine development, Avionics, radar and other state of the art techs just because of single project of LCA..

Same goes with Pakistan, before JFT we weren't even able to think about manufacturing of any fighter locally.. 90's saga is still there as horrible dream. Just because of JFT we are now familiar with lots of things and our engineers are getting experience at lots of advance techs with the passage of each and every day..

Now involvement of turks will bring a new era of learning for our engineers, we can co-operate with turk engineers in manufacturing of advanced state of the art avionics tech, advanced air - air and air - ground missile tech.. I think you better know Turk's capabilities in these fields and will consider their experience and wast knowledge regarding advanced techs..

Just be patient, and see, there is bright future of this fighter. even if at the end this fighter won't be able to score kills against su-30 etc still this project worth a lot for our newly born aviation industry and our in-experienced engineers..

if we'll be successful to create a good market for JFT in developing nations, we will be able to earn alot of money and we can use that money for whatever we'll want.. at least future will be better than today.. we can use that money to either purchase better fighters for front line attack against su-30's and other chanllenges imposed by enemy or we can use that money to start development of new better fighter with help of china and turkey in future.

Funding is main problem for pakistan right now, we need money and we all know we can't earn that much by selling wheat and rice to other nations..

If one of the main purpose of JF is to provide learning for Pakistan, should we keep the number of planes to a more reasonable figure such as 100 in two blocks instead of planning for 150 or more? When you look at the Chinese's strategy on J11, J10 and even its Navy ships, they are building only a handful of each and then move on to the modified one. Someone even suggested that the J10, J11 are used mainly for the testing batch for the ultimate 5th G planes. I do hope PAF should cut down the JF-17 number and airming at something stronger to take care of possible challange as suggested by MK.

 

[Manticore]

If one of the main purpose of JF is to provide learning for Pakistan, should we keep the number of planes to a more reasonable figure such as 100 in two blocks instead of planning for 150 or more? When you look at the Chinese's strategy on J11, J10 and even its Navy ships, they are building only a handful of each and then move on to the modified one. Someone even suggested that the J10, J11 are used mainly for the testing batch for the ultimate 5th G planes. I do hope PAF should cut down the JF-17 number and airming at something stronger to take care of possible challange as suggested by MK.

same stance that i have-- switch the ratio of procourment of jf17:j10 from 250:150 to 150:250

are the j10b heavy class fighters? even they are single engined medium class fighters----

get tot and production line of j10b to reduce production cost -- atleast we will have a deep penetration aircraft in handsome numbers

we would still need an airdominance/heavy class fighter in the linesof su30
[i know most will say j10b is enough even though its med. class]
---- i heard rumours of twin engined j10/su27 hybrid a year back

 

[farhan_9909]

Turkey intrest in JFT?

any link?

 

[Jazzbot]

see other thread posted here, links are posted there, or just google it and you'll find them..

 

[mjnaushad]

Turkey intrest in JFT?

any link?

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Abdullah Gul for joint defence production projects between Pak- Turkey

 

[MastanKhan]

Respected Mastan khan sir,
Pursuing JF 17 has been , in your opinion , a waste of time an money. But PAF is free from the tensions and worries of sanctions ,which could have come with any western fighter like Grippen.

Also it has led to increase in domestic manufacturing capabilty which every country wants.

On the radar and engine front the delays by China should not be blamed on Pakistan

Hi,

No sir---but it is not the need of the hour---need of the hour was air superiority---.

You have to analyze at first why do you want to buy a weapon----who are you going to use it against and what will it do for you.

Pakistan is not going to fight its war in ether---it is not going to indulge it with himself---it is going to fight with india---. So, when the other arm of the millitary ( the army )has some kind of balance in equipment, the air force is completely out of whack.

They are 10 years behind where they were supposed to be----critically they are more like 18 years behind when the contract of M2k got cancelled in the 90's.

 

[SQ8]

The mirage contract was a major blow.. not only would that have provided the PAF with a top end air superiority fighter.. but a very good long range strike platform as well...To this day senior PAF officers look back with regret.

 

[hataf]

The mirage contract was a major blow.. not only would that have provided the PAF with a top end air superiority fighter.. but a very good long range strike platform as well...To this day senior PAF officers look back with regret.

what mirage contract ??????
care to elaborate

 

[Luftwaffe]

hataf...in early 90's Pakistan approached France to buy Mirage 2000s.
If that contract had not stalled, not only would we be operating atleast 3 squadrons of Mirage 2000s but also the current F-16s that we've, a deadly combination for the opposition.

 

[Dr sim]

Hi,

No sir---but it is not the need of the hour---need of the hour was air superiority---.

You have to analyze at first why do you want to buy a weapon----who are you going to use it against and what will it do for you.

Pakistan is not going to fight its war in ether---it is not going to indulge it with himself---it is going to fight with india---. So, when the other arm of the millitary ( the army )has some kind of balance in equipment, the air force is completely out of whack.

They are 10 years behind where they were supposed to be----critically they are more like 18 years behind when the contract of M2k got cancelled in the 90's.

The only aircraft that can give u complete air superiority over IAF/upgraded Su-30 MKIs is the raptor (F-22 ) itself. I do not think PAF could have gone for it
From what I have learnt from this thread JF-17 is a good stop gap arrangement. Also U have to look at ur purse.Do u think with current financial situation PAF can actually go for something expensive like Rafale or Typhoon? what I mean to say what other option does Pakistan have apart from inducting JF-17?

 

[Kompromat]