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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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All these developments were in place by the year 2006-7 and we are well on our way of indigenization.



Like i said -- Congratulations if that is indeed the case..although personally i dont understand the business reason as to why China would share critical technology aspects with Pakistan. But i guess i am wrong -so well done Pakistan!
 
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ILLOGICAL !! you have not given grounds on which you consider JF17 to be .308 rather than 0.50 rifle.What criteria are you useing? taking pot shots without reason and logic is like blowing against a sand storm.I await your reply.
Araz


Hi,

Connsidering the SU 30 a .50 cal---the jf 17 is not even the size of .308----it falls under te category of .223---but we will keep it at .308.

As for as nabil----the kid is okay----and his information is fine---but the system is not fully tested as of yet----everything is new---new---new---. Paf has put together a sqdrn at a lightening pace---.

Air superiority systems or other systems don't work like that---they need time for development and analysis. There is too much work being done on an extremely fast track---which means that the errors in judgement, mand and material are going to be very costly---and SERIOUS FLAWS WILL BE HIDDEN AND PUSHED UNDER THE RUG momentarily---because of any public fury and backlash---.
 
Hi,

Connsidering the SU 30 a .50 cal---the jf 17 is not even the size of .308----it falls under te category of .223---but we will keep it at .308.

As for as nabil----the kid is okay----and his information is fine---but the system is not fully tested as of yet----everything is new---new---new---. Paf has put together a sqdrn at a lightening pace---.

Air superiority systems or other systems don't work like that---they need time for development and analysis. There is too much work being done on an extremely fast track---which means that the errors in judgement, mand and material are going to be very costly---and SERIOUS FLAWS WILL BE HIDDEN AND PUSHED UNDER THE RUG momentarily---because of any public fury and backlash---.

Its quite amazing how some folks conveniently pretend to know more than those who are actually involved with the project day in and day out for more than a decade. Astounding !

Lets move on shall we ?
 
Tit-bits....

Malaysia has also shown interest in jf-17 and analyzing further. They are impressed what they are shown so far.

Egyptians are going for jf-17 and will place a hefty order coupled with license manufacturing. The price offered with current capability is an attractive point and they are willing to induct big numbers....
Regards..

These tit-bits have really made my day. thanks for posting Nabil.
Do the additional four bring up the number to 17 in total? The last Picture I saw of JF-17 had tail-number 10-111(First PAC produced unit).

Any new news regarding, WS-13? Would egyptians be going for european avionics?
 
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Its quite amazing how some folks conveniently pretend to know more than those who are actually involved with the project day in and day out for more than a decade. Astounding !

Lets move on shall we ?

Sir,

Respectfully---

The size---the radar---the engine---the weapons system---all put together can do only so much. When you put all this stuff through the grinder---only so much can pop out---this is all about the physical capabilities----you can only squeeze out what a lemon of a certain size can give you---.

This is what I am have been saying to my pakistani colleagues---use the gray matter---stop listening to the lies---when you fall for their hype---you are supporting their agenda.

They are trying to cover their behinds with all their claims---. Why don't you hear me talk about the navy or the ground forces equipment---I have no relatives in the army or the air force or the navy that I might be supporting one and not the other. Because each one of the other forces have stepped upto the plate and gotten what they could---navy has no money---so keep her out----the army has what it takes----.

You still have to learn that just because you are not in the system doesnot mean that you don't know what it is all about.

For that particular reasons---there is no other air force in the world who manufactures their own planes---they have outside vendors who are given specifications and about what the need is what the enemy has to overcome.

You are a great source of information and we appreciate your kindness and effort---strategy is a different issue.

It is not astounding that outsiders know more---most of the time that is how it is---when you work within a system for a long time----you develop tunnel vision----you also grow a security blanket---you also get in you comfort zone---and you also develop a habit of lying to keep your staus quo intact---. It happens all over in the corporate world----look at B P oil fiasco in the gulf in U S----.

Big companies have a unique practise----Hughes aircraft----it would ask the new hires----please point us our shortcoming----what do you see that we are doing wrong---and they will correct it----reason being---what I wrote above---being in the comfort zone make you lie. It is no different and nothing new.
 
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Sir,

Respectfully---

The size---the radar---the engine---the weapons system---all put together can do only so much. When you put all this stuff through the grinder---only so much can pop out---this is all about the physical capabilities----you can only squeeze out what a lemon of a certain size can give you---.

This is what I am have been saying to my pakistani colleagues---use the gray matter---stop listening to the lies---when you fall for their hype---you are supporting their agenda.

They are trying to cover their behinds with all their claims---. Why don't you hear me talk about the navy or the ground forces equipment---I have no relatives in the army or the air force or the navy that I might be supporting one and not the other. Because each one of the other forces have stepped upto the plate and gotten what they could---navy has no money---so keep her out----the army has what it takes----.

You still have to learn that just because you are not in the system doesnot mean that you don't know what it is all about.

For that particular reasons---there is no other air force in the world who manufactures their own planes---they have outside vendors who are given specifications and about what the need is what the enemy has to overcome.

You are a great source of information and we appreciate your kindness and effort---strategy is a different issue.

It is not astounding that outsiders know more---most of the time that is how it is---when you work within a system for a long time----you develop tunnel vision----you also grow a security blanket---you also get in you comfort zone---and you also develop a habit of lying to keep your staus quo intact---. It happens all over in the corporate world----look at B P oil fiasco in the gulf in U S----.

Big companies have a unique practise----Hughes aircraft----it would ask the new hires----please point us our shortcoming----what do you see that we are doing wrong---and they will correct it----reason being---what I wrote above---being in the comfort zone make you lie. It is no different and nothing new.

Mastaan,

Do you realise that your long posts have no substance in them, are full of speculation and opinions based on third hand information. Why don't you give us some fact and figures or atleast some references to what your relatives share with you to substantiate your views on the JF17 which you forcefully share on this forum. Let me be devil's advocate and share with you the limitations of the JF17. The biggest risk is the powerplant atleast until a Chinese alternate become's available, the second issue is the avionics specifically the radar that is until it transitions from KLJ7 to KLJ10 and ultimately to a western option. Nobody is saying that JF17 has matured but when it is optimised it will be fairly potent platform for its role and cost. If you disagree please come up with specific technical issues not already mentioned above. Otherwise stop pretending to be an expert and a know it all. You are doing a great disservice to this forum and the youngsters who visit it by writing the type of stuff you do.
 
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Russia just hit the jack pot!
i'm already imagining rd93 in numbers of 4-5 thousand.
with a price tag of 2 million each this may go wel beyond 10 billion.

Brother, Russian jackpot now has a huge hurdle in its way by the name of WS-13. As soon as it becomes operational, either Russia will offer an updated and more powerful engine or will have to remove the clause of not to promote jf-17 to countries where Russian products are being marketed. This is turning out to be one pressure situation for Russia because jf-17 has at least four confirmed (Pakistan, China (replacing A-5s), Azerbaijan and Egypt) and at least 15 probable customers and growing and with WS-13, exports can simply not be stopped. :pakistan::china:
 
What is the problem with you guys ?? Why can't you keep the thread as per JF-17, why bringing in off topic nonsense ???

Keep the other F-16s, Kargil etc etc nonsense to other threads, enough BS for this thread, last 3-4 pages have changed the whole direction of this thread.

Enough, anymore off topic posts, they will get deleted and if members continue with that, suspensions will follow.

Great post bro.....i dont know when these people will learn something...:hitwall:
:cheesy:
:sniper::pakistan::pdf:
 
Tit-bits....

Malaysia has also shown interest in jf-17 and analyzing further. They are impressed what they are shown so far.

Egyptians are going for jf-17 and will place a hefty order coupled with license manufacturing. The price offered with current capability is an attractive point and they are willing to induct big numbers.

Four more jf-17 being manufactured at PAC KAMRA and second squadron will be raised by the year end. The work is going on smoothly.

We have already began integrating indigenous goodies at a moderate pace that include HUD and WMMC. More to follow soon.

No rd-93 issues what so ever and China has over 200 of them. Russian Government re-assured them a fluent supply.

Radar is klj-10 already? This surprised me too and the one shown at avionics manufacturing event is klj-10 not 7. One thing to be noticed is its antennae which is a little different than klj-7 i.e. not exactly circular like Grifo S but more like RDY-2.

Both China and Pakistan are looking to increase production lines to cope up with increasing international interest in the aircraft

Regards..

Thanks nabil for your post:tup:, very informative one. As for the radar is it the same KLJ-10 used in the J-10 in terms of its performance, range etc or will it be a slightly downgraded version considering the size of JF-17 nose is smaller and the radar has to be accommodated in that?
 
Thanks nabil for your post:tup:, very informative one. As for the radar is it the same KLJ-10 used in the J-10 in terms of its performance, range etc or will it be a slightly downgraded version considering the size of JF-17 nose is smaller and the radar has to be accommodated in that?

well if PAF finally gets on with KLJ-10 it will be the same as that of J-10.


regards!
 
well if PAF finally gets on with KLJ-10 it will be the same as that of J-10.


regards!

The reason i asked this question was that because of the size difference in the nose cone of JF-17 and J-10, is it possible to in cooperate the radar of the same size and if not how will it impact its performance?
 
knowing about pac in detail is an honour for every ****. is there any possibility for pac 2 build chinies ws 13 on license. is there any agreement done by paf for the sale of jf 17 with any interested country ? what about new updates ?
 
Here is a hint of the above mentioned points. PAC qualified to manufacture 476 parts to Boeing which itself is an achievement. A little old (2006) but interesting read that reflects what we are capable of as of now in terms of high performance avionics and aircraft parts.....

"KAMRA, Feb 27 (APP): Pakistan Monday joined the coveted list of countries manufacturing aircraft parts for the world's largest aircraft manufacturer - The Boeing Company.

Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz inaugurated the manufacturing facility at the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) which is already manufacturing six types of aircrafts, three types of engines, air defence and air borne avionics systems and their components.

Prime Minister Aziz appreciated Boeing's willingness to transfer technology to further cement business relations and help in building bridges between East and West.

Boeing offered transfer of technology, Boeing Quality Management System Certification training and technical support to PAC, after evaluating all the necessary infrastructure, expertise and internationally recognized Quality System at PAC.

It has received orders for manufacture of 476 parts by November 2006. Boeing is to purchase parts from the PAC till August 2010 under an agreement which could be extended for another two years.

The PAC has also commissioned the hi-tech CNC machines received for Boeing and continues to upgrade its manufacturing special processes - Heat and Surface Treatment and Non Destructive testing facilities.

Prime Minister Aziz also inaugurated the C-130 aircraft propeller overhaul facility for the Hamilton Sunsdstran of Holland.

Pakistan is also currently working on an ambitious joint production programme with China to replace its ageing fleet of Chinese fighters, with a modern multi-role, all-weather, day- night aircraft.

The PAC is supplying aircraft and services to several international companies including the Rolls Royce USA, SAAB of Sweden, Sagem of France.

He said the companies should see the PAC as their extension. "We are not shy of performing, of delivering of being competitive and will supply you the quality products," he added.

Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz also called for more joint ventures and more focus on marketing to leverage the full potential of the organisation.

He said with reliability, quality and dependabilities as its hallmarks, the PAC would now be a partner of Boeing and joint the list of its international vendors.

The Prime Minister referring to the overhauling of propellers for the C-130 aircraft, said it was a workhorse used by many air forces around the world.

"We need to market our capabilities and need to go for joint ventures," he added.

Describing the PAC as a "Centre of Excellence" he appreciated its role in the rebuild, manufacturing and design of aircraft and said "every Pakistani is proud of PAC...you have made us proud."

He said the JF-17 Thunder will be the frontline aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force in the next decade as it has the necessary punch, the avionics and the capability to defend country's airspace.

The Prime Minister said the PAC would expand its manufacturing capabilities in electronics, avionics and production of aircrafts.

He said self-reliance for essential defence equipment was very important for Pakistan as it has seen many a ups and downs in the past.

"The more self-reliant we are, the more we are prepared for future challenges," he said.

Prime Minister Aziz said steps were underway to further enhance exports of the Super Mashak aircraft and appreciated that they have earned the PAC a good repute, both by civil and military users.

Air Vice Marshal Aurangzeb Khan, Chairman Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra said the PAC has developed a sound technological base that can meet international military and civil aviation standards.

He said the PAC underwent an indepth survey and fulfilled all prerequisites for the award of contract from Boeing. Four PAC factories attained the highest quality certification in Aerospace manufacturing of AS-9100 Rev B standard and the ISO 9001 Quality Management System.

"The expertise attained has not only synergized our existing indigenization and JF 17 co-production programmes, but has also enhanced our ability to absorb such offset related opportunities in future," he added.

Vice President of Boeing Ms. Mary Monica said the PAC can now work as a team member of the company and can also compete for future works.

She said the PAC would be a member of Boeing's global supply chain and can provide quality parts at competitive prices.

The Prime Minister was accompanied by the Minister for Defence Rao Sikandar, Minister of State for Defence, Habibullah Warraich, Minister for Defence Production, Minister of State for Defence, Zahid Hamid and Minister of State for Environment, Amin Aslam Khan.

Earlier, Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat received the Prime Minister at the Minhas Air Base.

He was briefed about the working and expansion plans of the PAC Kamra by the Chairman of PAC Board Air Marshal Aurangzeb.

The Prime Minister also witnessed the agreement signing ceremony for the manufacture of parts for Boeing by the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. "

Published article by APP (Associated press pf Pakistan) in 2006
you Hit the Jackpot ma' man I always wanted a confirmation of this :tup:
 
Seriously guys all i ever get to read on jf-17 thread is either "the praise that how cool Su-30 is" or "PAF should have asked us (the self proclaimed) defense analysts before opting for JF-17".
the recent Turkish interest in JF-17 & Russian's stumbling over the potential sales status of JF-17 is credible enough to realize the worth of JF-17.
 
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