JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[MastanKhan]

Hi Gentlemen,

You are missing about the missile strikes---from your responces, I am visualizing that you are analyzing on your own and then posting what you think is right. If that is the case, then the analysis is misleading and is not based on studying real practises by the two leading cold war enemies---usa and russia.

Air strikes are still viewed as conventional form of warfare---deep missile strikes are otherwise---. When analyzing---you have to keep the human psyche in front of you all the time---predictable---we know how to react---unpredictable---it gets hairy---deep strikes missiles are extremely unpredictable---. The next thing is that a weaker nation has deep strike nuc capable missiles---we already told them what we will do with them---we don't want to challenge their anticipation. Deep strike missiles would be the end of the game.

Raad is not your typical deep strike missile and it should not be portrayed as such---it will act as an extremely deadly weapon at across the border enemy air bases within two to three hundred miles and specially the one in srinagar---. We should keep advertising the Raad as a glide bomb and not otherwise.

 

[AVIAN]

Yeah I understand that India 'tried' to make an indigenous fighter and tried to reinvent the wheel, due to this same reason the project has taken so long and so many test flights and ground tests have taken place. I don't think that was a smart decision to start with and we also know that how much indigenous the aircraft is now in its current state.

Reinventing the wheel has its own dividend in the form of massive Industrial set up for foreign industry and hence this is exactly the reason why 300 SME are working round the clock to ensure Tejas takes to the sky.

 

[LCA Tejas]

Yeah I understand that India 'tried' to make an indigenous fighter and tried to reinvent the wheel, due to this same reason the project has taken so long and so many test flights and ground tests have taken place. I don't think that was a smart decision to start with and we also know that how much indigenous the aircraft is now in its current state.

What do u mean by tried??? we did not waste time on this, we did R&D without affecting our defense procurements....

 

[rizhussain44]

What do u mean by tried??? we did not waste time on this, we did R&D without affecting our defense procurements....

I didn't mean that you wasted the R&D, what I mean is that you tried to make an indigenous aircraft but it did not end up as indigenous as it was planned and the other thing I am trying to say is that even though you learned a lot by all your efforts and R&D it seems to be more of 'hard work' then 'smart work', a smart approach would have been to take the best n latest available to you at that time and then build on top of it by doing R&D rather then deciding to start pretty much from scratch.

Now I don't exactly know if this is really how this project has undergone but this is what the impression I have got by doing a little bit of its follow up and by reading the discussions of all you folks (Indians and Pakistanis) here. My perception will sure change but not by any reasonings but when I will see it getting inducted in near future in significant numbers with mostly 'indigenous' components.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Keep the discussion to the topic, for LCA we have separate thread or it can be made in the India Dfence section and discuss about it there. This thread is not for LCA.

 

[Arsalan]

hey guyz we better keep our "kamikaze birds" fleet ready, we can use them to attack enemy bases!
just kidding, now back to topic.



we dont really need a 2-seat version....if we buy few more advance k-8 trainers.

Bro i disagree with this,,
two seat variants are not only for training purpose!!
two seats variants will play an important role once we want the plane in strike role..
JF17 is going to replace the A5 fleet and two seat plane are more helpful in CAS duties. also PAF will surely want to use JF17 in naval operation and there also two set plane would be a better option!

i hope you understand my point!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

india tejas , as with pakistans jf17 are right on track to be worthy replacement to all the obselete aircraft in both the airforces ,
no amount of bashing or ridicule from either side is going to change that........
also pakistani friends should come up new arguments now( tejas being a paper plane wont work now)........

well even if it had matched the F22z by now this is not the right plce to discuss it,, why dont you cut the crap and go to the relevant thread if you cannot see JF17 success being discussed here!!!???

 

[razgriz19]

Bro i disagree with this,,
two seat variants are not only for training purpose!!
two seats variants will play an important role once we want the plane in strike role..
JF17 is going to replace the A5 fleet and two seat plane are more helpful in CAS duties. also PAF will surely want to use JF17 in naval operation and there also two set plane would be a better option!

i hope you understand my point!!

regards!

sir i got ur point, but current design is not very suitable for two seat version. It might even add more weight if we make fewer modification and as u kno our current engines does not produce enough thrust. well...lets just leave it on PAF, they kno wat they'r doing....

 

[BATMAN]

Keep the discussion to the topic, for LCA we have separate thread or it can be made in the India Dfence section and discuss about it there. This thread is not for LCA.

Please.. delete all the useless discussion regarding the LCA!

 

[Arsalan]

sir i got ur point, but current design is not very suitable for two seat version. It might even add more weight if we make fewer modification and as u kno our current engines does not produce enough thrust. well...lets just leave it on PAF, they kno wat they'r doing....

that is a valid point and this is why i had been saying that the first batch planes should not have gone to CAS duties. i know it was the A5 retirement that left PAF with no other option but to put JF in Strike Role. for me the next batch plane with a bit powerful engine, more hardpoints atleast one more to bay the targetting POD and perhaps twin seats would have been ideal for CAS duties. in its current specs with one pilot and seven hardpoints out of which two are conventionally to be used for external fuel tanks with no IRF probes installed and one to be mounting a Targetting POD, the plane is left with just four hardpoints to mount air defence missiles plus ground attack bombs. this is not so good!!!
on the other hand the next batch would have removed the need for fuel tanks thus giving two more hardpoints for bombs and may be another added hardpoint to mount the targetting POD thus in that configration with a bit more poerful engine the JF17 would have been much more threatning in CAS duties carrying two WVR missiles on wing tips, two BVR on first stations from wing tips, four bombs on second hardpoints on each side from wing tips and may be a RAAD missile under fuselage!!
i hope i have made my point clear??

regards!

 

[DMLA]

that is a valid point and this is why i had been saying that the first batch planes should not have gone to CAS duties. i know it was the A5 retirement that left PAF with no other option but to put JF in Strike Role. for me the next batch plane with a bit powerful engine, more hardpoints atleast one more to bay the targetting POD and perhaps twin seats would have been ideal for CAS duties. in its current specs with one pilot and seven hardpoints out of which two are conventionally to be used for external fuel tanks with no IRF probes installed and one to be mounting a Targetting POD, the plane is left with just four hardpoints to mount air defence missiles plus ground attack bombs. this is not so good!!!
on the other hand the next batch would have removed the need for fuel tanks thus giving two more hardpoints for bombs and may be another added hardpoint to mount the targetting POD thus in that configration with a bit more poerful engine the JF17 would have been much more threatning in CAS duties carrying two WVR missiles on wing tips, two BVR on first stations from wing tips, four bombs on second hardpoints on each side from wing tips and may be a RAAD missile under fuselage!!
i hope i have made my point clear??

regards!

I was wondering if jf-17 currently uses any targetting pod. I know that China has some pods (FILAT et al.). Shouldn't PAF be looking at these for jf-17 since these are being put in for CAS role?

Also, why would the aircraft need the external tanks for CAS with most of the ops being close to the border. It would seem that they will be able to maintain very high sortie rates depending on where they are based out of during war time. I would agree that addition of another pilot will help a lot but aren't the A-5's they are replacing single seaters? If so then it makes more sense this way as training of new pilots (WSO's) will take time.

just some thoughts!

 

[Arsalan]

FILAT and some other chines electro optical POD will be used with JF17z!

it will be much more helpful if we can keep the planes in Air for longer periods with IRF abilities, ofcourse it is common sense!

yes A5 consist of one pilot crew but they will be replaced in large numbers so trained pilots wont be a problem!

i hope you understand this!!
regards!

 

[bc040400065]

Yes, it is the most tested aircraft.... You know why??? we started this aircraft without any basic know how to create a Modern fighter aircraft.

100% Indian effort in this..... We tried doing each and everything for this system... We even created MMR and Kaveri engines...

Kaveri is undergoing evaluation in france and Our MMR is being co developed with Israel...... Avionics and softwares everything Indian...

You know something, This aircraft was started as a 3rd gen aircraft in 1980's, the IAF's demands changed ever sice and Now it is a 4.5 gen aircraft ready for induction, as It has been given LSP and will get IOC soon....

firstly as u told that ur getting help from french in term of engines and israel interms of avionics etc, and also russian help as well. So u cannot say that it is 100% indian effort. and for ur info please LCA is 4th generation aircraft not 4.5, and if u don't know then i can tell u that 4.5 gen aircraft are Eurofighter, Rafale, Grapin NG, F16 Blk60, F18 SH , and LCA does not have any match with these.

 

[Arsalan]

@@@bc040400065

foe god sake!! it would be better if you can read some of the last posts!!
every one here is trying to cut this crap, the thread was being brought back on track and you want to start that same old story again!!
this is not LCA thread!!!!
pleas do take it in positive manner!! i understand that you are new on this forum but it would be really nice if you try and keep the posts on topic!!

regards!

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Yes, it is the most tested aircraft.... You know why??? we started this aircraft without any basic know how to create a Modern fighter aircraft.

100% Indian effort in this..... We tried doing each and everything for this system... We even created MMR and Kaveri engines...

Kaveri is undergoing evaluation in france and Our MMR is being co developed with Israel...... Avionics and softwares everything Indian...

You know something, This aircraft was started as a 3rd gen aircraft in 1980's, the IAF's demands changed ever sice and Now it is a 4.5 gen aircraft ready for induction, as It has been given LSP and will get IOC soon....

If you havent seen this video, I advise u to see it

YouTube - LCA (light combat aircraft) HAL TEJAS.

Looks like we have another special case here.

This guy keeps barging about LCA is a 100 if not 90% indigenous IAF fighter which is nothing but cow dung. India has absolutely ZERO air craft design R&D and they should be thankful to West and Russia for providing their requirements. Lets take a example of Armed version of Dhruv which I believe is the only claimed to be Indian project which is revealed with real origin.

UNHCR | Refworld | Indian helicopters for Myanmar: making a mockery of the EU arms embargo?

Design: German MBB now Eurocopter
Avionics: USA, Isreal
Mission computer: Isreal
Engine: French
Armament: Belgium and few other european countires.
Hydraulic Package: UK
self-protection : South African/Swedish

this is just the tip of ice burg. havent mentioned most of the equipment developed by west.

My point is.. A country that can not develop mission computer that these pathological liar indian brag about being "indigenous" and used in MKI LCA and now PAK-FA are actually foreigners developed by them but given a indian name and only produced in India.

Once a pathological liar will always remain to be a liar and it will be very hard for them to except the reality.
typical indians.




and also.. do inform me... how the hell is LCA a 4.5 generation fighter without AESA radar? so the criteria is... it has cranked delta wings, has some composite materials (F-16 block 60 doesnt), and that it takes of and lands? that why you consider it to be a 4.5 fighter? lol.