JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[mshoaib61]

i'm wondering if this was such a 'good idea'!?

Sir i don't think there is any thing wrong by letting any foreign pilot inside the cockpit because i am sure all the avionics was and other indigenous systems were off so he does not have any access. the plane was on static display and everything is turned off.

 

[ANG]

Hi Mr. Fatman17, all the systems would have been turned off, especially the radar. Moreover, the avionics could have also been covered by some covers as not to reveal anything. Take care.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

He just sat in it...the whole simulator and cockpit were on public display in a defence expo.....What is the big fuss about it?

 

[TaimiKhan]

He just sat in it...the whole simulator and cockpit were on public display in a defence expo.....What is the big fuss about it?

Sometimes what is being shown to the outside world is not what the operator itself may be using.

Export variant may be different compared to the PAF variant.

Also, simulator layout and the things being shown in them are different then what is in the real cockpit.

And these 2 planes are from the operational Sqd of the PAF, you can see the MAWS sensors missing from the tail section, which may have been removed deliberately.

 

[hataf]

Sometimes what is being shown to the outside world is not what the operator itself may be using.

Export variant may be different compared to the PAF variant.

Also, simulator layout and the things being shown in them are different then what is in the real cockpit.

And these 2 planes are from the operational Sqd of the PAF, you can see the MAWS sensors missing from the tail section, which may have been removed deliberately.

sorryyyyyyyyy

but what is........MAWS.....

 

[TaimiKhan]

sorryyyyyyyyy

but what is........MAWS.....

Missile Approach Warning System

Here see this white thingy:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/syedakm/4825312371/in/set-72157624573595948/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/syedakm/4825923696/in/set-72157624573595948/

 

[KS]

Karthic,

We do not have any official figures for it (atleast I don't) but its only logical that with LERX, the JF-17 is bound to have a higher AoA since it will still provide lift where an F-16 might start losing lift as the airflow over the wings is disturbed.

Thank u...Is it classified info..or just not found on net.?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thank u...Is it classified info..or just not found on net.?

Classified to be exact.

The flying characteristics of the JF-17 are not known much except for the few flying demos we have seen so far, plus the inside tidbits of how JF-17s have hold their ground against F-16s in simulated dog fights and repeatedly downed F-16s and have outpaced them in turning performance.

 

[kursed]

Taimur, what makes you believe that the MAWS sensors were removed prior to the exhibition? Just went through my catalogue of JF-17 images, all of them seem to show that sensor of the same sort.

 

[KS]

Classified to be exact.

The flying characteristics of the JF-17 are not known much except for the few flying demos we have seen so far, plus the inside tidbits of how JF-17s have hold their ground against F-16s in simulated dog fights and repeatedly downed F-16s and have outpaced them in turning performance.

Which F-16s..? I mean wich model..? the earlier baseline models or the Blk 52s..

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimur, what makes you believe that the MAWS sensors were removed prior to the exhibition? Just went through my catalogue of JF-17 images, all of them seem to show that sensor of the same sort.

here plzz read the below link, this is the Chinese SE-2 MAWS system and the sensor in the JF-17 should be something like this, optical sensor, while in my above posted links pictures you will see them to be closed. Thus you can't see the optical sensors.

SE-2 Airborne Missile Approach Warning System - SinoDefence.com

Plus some pics of JF-17s, you can see black spots in those MAWS sensors housing, while at Farnbrough we saw nothing, just simple metal.

And now here compare the J-11B MAWS sensors with the picture of the optical sensor clearly being seen in the JF-17 tail specifying MAWS.

J-11B MAWS

JF-17 MAWS

 

[TaimiKhan]

Which F-16s..? I mean wich model..? the earlier baseline models or the Blk 52s..

The current PAF F-16 A/B models which are supposed to be one the most maneuverable among the variants so far till Blk 52s and even may be Blk 60.

Hope someone with more knowledge can give more insight into this.

 

[Hasnain2009]

The current PAF F-16 A/B models which are supposed to be one the most maneuverable among the variants so far till Blk 52s and even may be Blk 60.

Hope someone with more knowledge can give more insight into this.

How? when F-16A/B has 100Kn while F-16E/F has 144kn engine.

So F-16E/F has 44% higher thrust, but i dont think F-16E/F's empty weight is 44% higher to F-16A/B?

 

[TaimiKhan]

How? when F-16A/B has 100Kn while F-16E/F has 144kn engine.

So F-16E/F has 44% higher thrust, but i dont think F-16E/F's empty weight is 44% higher to F-16A/B?

Higher thrust doesn't means more maneuverable.

It depends on the design more.

 

[KEETARP]

Here are the three modes visually demonstrated for clarity...

Because of the inferiority of the missile's own radar system compared to the parent aircraft, the 'active' capable missile must still have some kind of guidance towards the target. The parent aircraft's necessary attention span on the target depends on how quickly the pilot orient himself on the target. The sooner he does so, the sooner the missile's own radar can acquire the target and the more secured that acquisition. So assuming we have an 'active' capable missile, the 'semi-active' stage must still be passed through before the missile can take over its own target resolution.

Now...If the target engages ECM, then that ECM transmission falls under 'passive'. In other words, that ECM transmission become a part of target characteristics, just like IR emissions anywhere on target body. The missile, if so capable, will switch to 'home-on-jam' mode. If the missile is equipped with an IR sensor, then we just have more target characteristics to correlate among the sensors and modes. Keep in mind that there is nothing preventing the parent aircraft from maintaining radar attention on the target even after the missile engaged its own. A less capable missile could be confused by the multiple data but that is no longer the case today.

Technology plays an important part in this but that is for another discussion, suffice to say that the superior technology will shorten the time in stage and the transition time between stages.

Gambit

How does a Active Radar guided missile prioritizes its target in terminal phase . In layman terms how it sees and decides - "bang this is my target" .

When it's onboard radar goes active , there will be more than 10 RF emitter in a given area .
Two to three targets would be giving same radar return in dB .
A relatively low RCS design(Say Jet A) at 10Km range would be reflecting same energy as a slightly large figure (Say Jet B) at 20 Km distance + plus it might be possible that Jet A has just entered Theater field when missile is switching to Active terminal mode


Is it only based on
TWS/AACQ/STT/RWS information ; meaning Track while scan data which firing platform transmitted to missile - aka aspect angle, heading, airspeed and closure .

Or it has something to do with Pulse train / PRF sequence of reflecting surface which may be unique to hostile radar/jet .