JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[cw2005]

I have been reading MK's comments for some times and I would like to summarise his thinking :

MK'S opinion
1. PAF missed a chance in years back.
2. Went for JF-17 was a mistake.
3. USA equipments are useless because during war time with India, USA would destroy them easily.
4. Chinese military equipments are generally poor in performance when compared with USA, EU and Russia.
5. Now it is hopeless to fight.

MK's suggestion
1. Give up fighting and make friend with India.
2. Clear up internal problems in Pakistan.

Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

 

[thinkingcap81]

Hi MastanKhanji,

Many thanks for making this thread such an interesting one to read. I reiterate that we sorely miss someone like you in the Indian defense section.

Excuse me for commenting as an outsider.

But i am less and less able to understand your points. Senior members have suggested that Grippen etc. were not options for the PAF. Also the latest acquisitions like BVR missiles from the US seem to have not-for-India stickers stuck on them. In this scenario is not JF-17 ie Chinese dependence the better option?

Are you suggesting that had Pakistan lobbied enough and/or decided to totally eschew any terrorist links then it would have been wonderful and many doors would have opened? Which AWACS other than Swedish Saab was on offer for Pakistan since the Phalcons were off-bounds?

How has PAF misunderstood the mindset of us Indians after 9/11? In fact, being not so aware of international relations, i ask you - what is our mindset? Are you confident that at present India is important enough for the US that the US will actually warn Pakistan from issuing any nuke threats against India?

I ask these questions as i feel that all the discussions are going around in circles.

Or are you openly hinting at stuff that only really knowledgeable people will understand and which they will not acknowledge in a open forum thus leaving out novices like me confused.

I will not be disappointed if you do not clear some of my doubts but i hope you do.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I have been reading MK's comments for some times and I would like to summarise his thinking :

MK'S opinion
1. PAF missed a chance in years back.
2. Went for JF-17 was a mistake.
3. USA equipments are useless because during war time with India, USA would destroy them easily.
4. Chinese military equipments are generally poor in performance when compared with USA, EU and Russia.
5. Now it is hopeless to fight.

MK's suggestion
1. Give up fighting and make friend with India.
2. Clear up internal problems in Pakistan.

Please correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

are you for real?

why need multiple accounts to substantiate the original post
we hear you loud and clear and I am sure you hear us loud an clear
you are saying submit to us like Nepal, Burma, Bangladesh and Siri Lanka have
and we are saying NO, we are not those countries

its given that we are not competing with India on like for like bases. All we need is enough force to keep your ganghu politicians & policy makers think & think again and again before going to war with Pakistan.
This is why since 1971 there has been no all out war. Much to your desperation

Like I said already, what we have is enough that that stopped your Airforce & army from sneak attacks and changing a “usual exercise along the border” into an invasion.

JF-17 is just a beginning my dear. There is more to come which will keep you guys occupied with getting more fancy toys. But the fact will remain. No matter how much hot air you blow

You will never have the will or courage to cross the international border, because you wont like the consequences. You got too much to loose and that’s what has stopped you.

My summary for you

1. India has to accept the reality of Pakistan
2. India has to accept that Pakistan is not Bangladesh or Nepal
3. India has to accept that it doesn’t have the force to steamroll over Pakistan
4. India has to accept that Pakistan has limited but potent force to stop it in its tracks from any adverturism.

(next time try posting from your original/ main ID)

 

[rohailmalhi]

JF-17 is just a beginning my dear. There is more to come which will keep you guys occupied with getting more fancy toys. But the fact will remain. No matter how much hot air you blow


My summary for you

1. India has to accept the reality of Pakistan
2. India has to accept that Pakistan is not Bangladesh or Nepal
3. India has to accept that it doesn’t have the force to steamroll over Pakistan
4. India has to accept that Pakistan has limited but potent force to stop it in its tracks from any adverturism.

I dont know y people expect sooooooooo much from JF17 so early.
It is getting in to better shape with every passing day . and i know PAF are trying day and night to make it one of the best light multirole fighter of the world and im 110% sure tht they will inshaallah be sucessful in doing tht .

About the bvr Pakistan has made its own bvr derived from Dartar series . so i think they are going to use it than just developing it and thn putting it in there shelves.

Long Live

 

[WAQAS119]

I dont know y people expect sooooooooo much from JF17 so early.
It is getting in to better shape with every passing day . and i know PAF are trying day and night to make it one of the best light multirole fighter of the world and im 110% sure tht they will inshaallah be sucessful in doing tht .

some people may not consider JF17 as a worthy enough to be part of any air force. It is their problem more than a reality.
But fact remains that even today almost 17 nations has placed order for JF17, and this proves it worthiness.

 

[TaimiKhan]

some people may not consider JF17 as a worthy enough to be part of any air force. It is their problem more than a reality.
But fact remains that even today almost 17 nations has placed order for JF17, and this proves it worthiness.

why don't you guys grow up ??

No one has ordered any of the planes, countries have shown interest, Egypt for now being the most interested and potential first customer.

 

[WAQAS119]

why don't you guys grow up ??

No one has ordered any of the planes, countries have shown interest, Egypt for now being the most interested and potential first customer.

by placement of order i meant shown their interest in JF17..

BTW here is the link

Pakistan launches homemade JF-17 jet - UPI.com
quote from the article:

By some accounts, the JF-17 is gaining popular demand. As many as 17 nations have placed orders while Pakistan is considering deploying the aircraft in strategic parts of the country.

 

[cw2005]

are you for real?

I just want to point out MK has a strong case here but you people responsed not in a way to shut him down. Because the argument so far failed to convince MK to change his mind.

We have to opine on each specific point raised by MK to show he is wrong.

I have no idea on his point 1, but reservation on all other points and suggestion.

If you want to change someone's mind, you have to hit the point with supporting evidence, not using circular reasoning argument.

By the way, I am not an India and I am not white.

 

[WAQAS119]

I just want to point out MK has a strong case here but you people responsed not in a way to shut him down. Because the argument so far failed to convince MK to change his mind.

We have to opine on each specific point raised by MK to show he is wrong.

I have no idea on his point 1, but reservation on all other points and suggestion.

If you want to change someone's mind, you have to hit the point with supporting evidence, not using circular reasoning argument.

By the way, I am not an India and I am not white.

you can also interpret whole situation as he is unable to convince all of us. don't you?

 

[Mani2020]

Mastan Khan

Sorry but um really unable to understand and judge your point....I respect your age and experience but still i think rather than anyone else your posts are going in circles.......I have red your all posts and i hope you remember your all posts too ...so it will be easy for me to gather them in one single post of mine

In some posts you are saying that Pakistan have missed a chance for asking/ demanding more from US after WOT due to some kinda poor strategy and they should have gained more than what they had....Now on the other hand you are saying that US weapons are like sitting ducks against india as Pak couldnt use them i case of war and you are giving the reference of "MR.blake" statement...your own statements contradict with each other coz on one hand you are criticizing Paf procurement of US stuff and at other hand you are emphasizing that Pakistan should have gained more after WOT so when you dont like paf procurement of US stuff than what kind of gains are u talking about?

Do you wanted PAF to get F-18 or f-15 at best ? So arnt these machines prone to same embargoes that are attached with f-16's

Now coming to your second point of Paf relying on Chinese stuff which is not as good as US then tell me where should we go? you are not happy with US tech , you are not happy with chinese one (who by the way are more reliable than anyone in the world ) so tell me where should PAF go and you are your self excepting that either no other country will provide it or either we are not able to afford

Third point regarding saab-2000 ....here you are praising musharaf for signing a deal with China when you already have kinda degraded chinese stuff (sorry if my words seems to b bit harsh or rash)

As far as your point regarding PAF and some of the corruption is concerned i totaly agree you at that but....

Regarding the question about Pakistan and India friendship for the purpose of peace... it is next to impossible coz its the clash of ideologies and the clash of identities and where people indulge in factor lyk these there is no way out.....Let me tell u a thing India want to go in UN for permanent member and Pakistan is the biggest opposer of this ...Lets suppose for an instance we become friends ...then do you think Pakistan will not oppose after friendship and peace? the answer is a big NO? this is because the distrust we have ....For us who knows they will backbite us after getting their purpose fullfilled... Thats the history of distrust and blunders we have sir ....And this is only a single example there are lot of others existing

I think for me you are in a state of dilemma where you dont know wat to adapt and what to leave ......either it may be because of your distrust on Paf or your frustration for wat the IAF is getting

Regardless of age factor which you usually involve this is wat i think ....but still i respect you as a senior member

Regards

 

[rohailmalhi]

some people may not consider JF17 as a worthy enough to be part of any air force. It is their problem more than a reality.
But fact remains that even today almost 17 nations has placed order for JF17, and this proves it worthiness.

PAF JF-17 in Farnborough air show 2010.

Farnborough - Aircraft - Static Aircraft Listings

Jf17 will be flown by PAF pilots. [cheers]

http://www.farnborough.com/Site/Content/Farnborough2010/Aircraft/Daily-Flying-Display.aspx?Z=283

Long Live

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If you want to change someone's mind, you have to hit the point with supporting evidence, not using circular reasoning argument.

By the way, I am not an India and I am not white.

why do you think me or someone else has the need to force MK to change his point?
I would never ever want to impose my opinion on others
you are just missing the whole point here
what you or MK is trying to do is draw pessimistic picture of a situation which doesn’t exist
you are saying that since Pakistan can’t match in money spend & technology acquisition with India so it just give up the race
the "race" we are not running
problem with your Indian policy makers is that you see spy behind every tree, you have border disputes or political issues with every neighbour around you
you make irrelevant comparisons that have nothing to do with the very thread which is talking about a medium tech stop gap aircraft that is work in progress and has satisfied the needs of the PAF
talking about wishes well sky is the limit. PAF would like to have anything like F22 yesterday in its fleet and India would want to be like America slapping sanctions & invading countries like Iraq but reality is different my dear
I can very much sum up the repeated posts by some members (non Pakistanis)
give it up, JF 17 is no match for SU30 so PAF should give up planes and wave the white flag
tell you what, (my non Indian friend) I will make an American ID and will start the post saying
India should stop inventing in its military and transport because it can’t match USA
India should stop trying to improve its health and education because American Health & Education has more resources & way advance
get my point? There are over a dozen posts that have been nuked already from this thread why you want yours to be nuked for being off topic?

 

[wangrong]

 

[rohailmalhi]

List AIRCRAFT which are going to fly in Farnborough air show 2010.

Airbus A380 / A400m (subject to availability)
ATR 72
Battle of Britain Memorial Flight
Bristol Fighter (Shuttleworth Collection)
Britten Norman Islander
B-52
Chinook
C-27J
C-130
DH-6 Twin Otter 400
Eurofighter Typhoon
F-16
F-18
F-22
Great War Display Team
Gulfstream G550
Hawk T1
Hurricane Mk 1
JF-17 (Flown by the Pakistan Air Force)
King Air B200
Mark Jeffries British Aerobatic Champion - Extra 330SC
PBY Catalina
Red Arrows
Red Devils - The Parachute Regiment Freefall Team
Seafire
Sea Fury
Sea Hawk
Swordfish
Sukhoi Superjet 100
2 x ME 109
2 x Spitfire (single seat)
Vulcan


http://www.farnborough.com/Site/Content/Farnborough2010/Aircraft/Daily-Flying-Display.aspx?Z=283

 

[VelocuR]

According to AFM articles (#2643), it says

"In early April, it was reported that the French Government would not supply the Thales avionics to the PAF for the JF-17; however the Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman, told AFM in mid-April that the French procurement agency, the Direction General I Armement (DGA), had assured him that the delivery would go ahead."

go ahead?? can someone clarify this?