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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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According to Sir Parvez Shamim on Pakdef forum regarding Thunder's presence in Farnborough Airshow....

"Two JF-17 will be present at the airshow. One will be for the static display and other for a flying display. JF-17 will be presented with an export configuration and debut with Boeing 787. First five days are reserved for trade delegations and JF-17 is expected to draw major attention. JF-17 will have daily flying display along with its Western counterparts.

Though CATIC will be the sponsor, PAF pilots will be flying the JF-17

I started my post with asking you to qoute a source but found it my self on the offical website

static display
Farnborough - Aircraft - Static Aircraft Listings

flying display
Farnborough - Aircraft - Daily Flying Display

its from 19- to 25th of July and guess what I plan to be there. if anyone from UK wants to join me then let me know so that we can meet up
might as well take some pictures or movies (if allowed) for the forum

farnborough airshow is an Icom
regards
 
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Keep underestimating and keep ur self in dark :D.
The same thing that happened in 65 and 71 wars....when ur IAF was confident ....but ur IAF lost badly.....
Tell me any conflict when ur IAF have ever edge on PAF. :D


Yes IAF lost badly not on battlefield rather in Pakistani Fictious stories.


Increase ur knowledge......Pakistan have 100+ Mirages and 20+ JF-17.s that have and can BVR missiles.
Dont forget, this year 50 + (30 new + 20 upgraded) F-16's would also becomes BVR capable

Let me increase your knowledge, no 100+ Mirage of PAF or 20+JF-17s carry any BVR capability, heck your Mirage doesn't even have powerful radar to bring it in BVR league.

F-16 would only become BVR capable only when Pakistan toe the US line on terror.
 
Yes IAF lost badly not on battlefield rather in Pakistani Fictious stories.




Let me increase your knowledge, no 100+ Mirage of PAF or 20+JF-17s carry any BVR capability, heck your Mirage doesn't even have powerful radar to bring it in BVR league.

F-16 would only become BVR capable only when Pakistan toe the US line on terror.

danger of getting off topic here. i already commented on his post.
lets stop it here before the mods come with their CHOP CHOP machine
 
When exactly is this show happening and where? Cant wait for the JF-17 to perform for the very first time in international airshows competing against its Western counterparts.:yahoo:

In UK Farnborough 19-25th of July 10
I will be there Inshallah

its not competing with any western planes. it will performing flight display only
 
In UK Farnborough 19-25th of July 10
I will be there Inshallah

its not competing with any western planes. it will performing flight display only

Hope you can take some pictures and share them with all of us on the forum. Happy Hunting.
 
Yes, since no single fighter jet becomes a long terms investment as a part of the fighter diplomacy and answering the question of affordibility.

I don't think you get what I mean. A long term investment is a long term investment. Did I say it can answer any question?
 
^^its quite obvious there are members here who are 'better informed' than even the PAF!!!




Hi,

I am truly awestruck by these comments form the chairman of the board----after all the hoopla----that is all the personal contribution the leader can give except for some paste and post material from other sources.

May I dare to ask---how much effort did it take to come up with that analysis.
 
Anti BVR tactics of PAF:rofl:

Shooting down of modern MKI by ancient PAF F-16 :rofl::rofl:

read and learn what others had to say about it, then ''rofl'' all you want, troll :smokin:

our track record against your air force speaks wonders; now realities and capabilities have changed. We are adapting to all challenges and threats, and i'd say we are doing well.
 
I disagree...In fact if we go by various articles quoting PAF officials it was made clear to GOP that

a) PAF lacks BVR capability and thus uneven with IAF capabilities
b) Any intervention by PAF would surely be matched by response from IAF and then there would be no point of return...

That's what I said too right?

I posted this recently in an other thread too, but it should make some things clear here too:

...PAF’s intervention meant all-out war: this unmistakable conclusion was conveyed to the Prime Minister, Mr Nawaz Sharif by PAF’s Chief of Air Staff in no equivocal terms.

Short of starting an all-out war, PAF looked at some saner options that could put some wind in the sails after doldrums had been hit.
Air Marshal Najeeb Akhtar, the Air Officer Commanding of Air Defence Command was co-opted by the Air Staff to sift the possibilities. Audacious and innovative in equal parts, Air Marshal Najeeb, who had an excellent knowledge about own and enemy’s Air Defence Ground Environment (ADGE), focused on fighter sweep as a possible option. To prevent the mission from being seen as an escalatory step in the already charged atmosphere, PAF had to lure Indian fighters into own territory, ie Azad Kashmir or Northern Areas. That done, a number of issues had to be tackled. What if the enemy aircraft were hit in own territory but fell across, providing a pretext to India as a doubly aggrieved party? What if one of our own aircraft fell, no matter if the exchange was one-to-one (or better)? Finally, even if we were able to pull off a surprise, would it not be a one-off incident, with the IAF wisening up in quick time? The over-arching consideration was the BVR missile capability of IAF fighters which unfavourably impinged on the mission success probability. The conclusion was that a replication of the famous four-Vampire rout of 1st September 1965 by two Sabres might not be possible. A fighter sweep thus came to be a non-starter.

PAF in Kargil : A PAF warrior speaks out Pak Tea House

Of course it was clear that an intervention of PAF in full capablity would meant a full war, but as you can see, PAF also thought about other ways to get involved and support their ground troops, without escalating things too much.
If their conclusion would saw better chances of succsess, PAF would have taken actions in Kargil too, but the BVR advantage of IAF in that time was a big disadvantage.

You simply can't go to war and hope, it will not escalate, it is a calculated risk that you take. The moment one side thinks they will have a clear advantage by using their Air Force, they will use it, even if it would be only one major hit.
That's why I still believe, now with more even capabilities of both Air Forces (BVR missiles and AWACS), limited air combats are possible too.


To get it back to the topic, the comander also said that the only fighter which was capable enough for patrol missions was the F16, because no other interceptors (F-7) had capable radars, or endurance. Exactly that is the point where JF 17 with BVR capabilities will bring a difference to PAF. The difference of having around hundreds of fighters, besides the F16s that are able to take over the defensiv patrol and interception mission. JF 17 don't have to be as capable as the F16 to defend Pakistan, in numbers and with full 4. gen capabilities it will clearly will be an improvement for PAF. This also leaves the F16 for way more than just the defense role and nobody can really tell me that PAF don't had the possibility of strikes against India in mind too, when they bought the new Block 52s with CFTs, JDAMs and Sniper pods.

As a fighter I don't think JF 17 is something special, the J10 imo has more potential, but nonetheless any JF 17 in operational service will be a big improvement for PAF and the defense of Pakistan. A cost-effective workhorse on the lower level, that's what it meant for and what it will be, the only question that some members are discussing seems to be, when will it be fully capable?
That's where I agree with MastanKhan, if it turns out that the first batch will be not, or only limited BVR capable they will not be good enough to take over the above mentioned role and that can't be what PAF wanted.
 
f-86 saber..you people are refusing to accept PAF's bad decisions.
Look into the past 20/22 Years and if you read my previous posts i already explained in past 22 years PAF spent around approximately 2.8 billion dollars on buying K-8s, F-7P/PG, second hand mirages and upgrades excluding F-16s (Thunders on soft loans). Not a single Pakistani member disagrees that thunder is good plane. And it is silly to think PAF in 22 years spend whole heartedly innocently on that above mention stuff clearly we could have by now atleast 3 squadrons of M-2000 variants. corruption has taken place.

Luftwaffe
The decisions by PAf were based on its threat perception and what was available to meet our needs at that time.F7P/PGs were never on PAFs horizons but the worsening border situation and the fact that half the F16 fllet was down necessitated this and you may recall, we had them delivered on a ship in a mattewr of a week or so. Secondf hand mirages were a necessary evil and if you see what we ave bought for the price that we have paid and the price we were being chrged by the vendor to supply of spares, you may think again. K8 ias a trainer bought at the time when T37s were not beimng serviced. It is interesting that inspite of having an assembly line we did not have more than 20 odd trainers, although it has been an exporting success.
People need to see the problems faced by PAF and the resource resraints it has had in procuring equipment.
I dont say PAF has not made mistakes and that there has not been any hanbky panky going on, but that is no more or no less than anyother institution in pakistan.
Regards
Araz
 
Keep underestimating and keep ur self in dark :D.
Goes both way isn't it??:azn: Let me show you how...

If you had waited for even an iota of second before hitting the reply button you would have figured out that i am talking about 99 when PAF did not have BVR....

The same thing that happened in 65 and 71 wars....when ur IAF was confident ....but ur IAF lost badly.....Tell me any conflict when ur IAF have ever edge on PAF. :D
Ignoring the rant...It is nothing but flame bait....

Increase ur knowledge......Pakistan have 100+ Mirages and 20+ JF-17.s that have and can BVR missiles.
Dont forget, this year 50 + (30 new + 20 upgraded) F-16's would also becomes BVR capable

I surely will however increase your patience to read the post...understand the context and only then hit reply
 
^^Please... stop commenting on issues which you have no chance to know fully.
Before reaching to the point of BVR your airforce need to face manpads and other ground based air defence systems.
Don't forget Pakistan managed to drop your pride a/c without involving PAF.
You cannot say for sure what was the planning of PAF! when the did not flew during Kargil conflict.
One reason for sure was that it was not clear whats going on out there and secondly they were not asked for help.
Most of above, it was not a full scale war as your airforce flew only over limited area and hardly ever crossed the line of control.
When PAF did flew against your BVR armed airforce was in 2009 when your MKI and MK2 were locked by our ancient F-16 and was spared with warning for good reasosns.
It is also very well known that more than half your BVR stock is not functional.

Now enough of off topic discussion.
 
and in such a long time you come up with such an investment people gotta be kidding with lets say $3 billion in 22 years is a joke rip off fraud angels doing corruption and bad decision bad investment and they keep on looping. I'm not concerned with other institutions the focus is PAF its a negative approach to say other institutions do it so PAF did it too so what is the difference! myth vs relaity No more Angels in PAF, PAF should quit those statments regarding airspace, PAF is in trouble for what we know is their negative short term approach and bad decisions over and over again.
 
^^Please... stop commenting on issues which you have no chance to know fully.
Before reaching to the point of BVR your airforce need to face manpads and other ground based air defence systems.
Don't forget Pakistan managed to drop your pride a/c without involving PAF.
You cannot say for sure what was the planning of PAF! when the did not flew during Kargil conflict.
One reason for sure was that it was not clear whats going on out there and secondly they were not asked for help.
Most of above, it was not a full scale war as your airforce flew only over limited area and hardly ever crossed the line of control.
When PAF did flew against your BVR armed airforce was in 2009 when your MKI and MK2 were locked by our ancient F-16 and was spared with warning for good reasosns.
It is also very well known that more than half your BVR stock is not functional.

Now enough of off topic discussion.

very nicely put
 
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