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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

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Dont expect too much , Thunders are lightweight jets and they are not comparable to Block 52+ , considering its avionics/ Electronics , Link 16 , Sinper , JHMCS , CFT's , Higher thrust engine , 9 hardpoints / weapon stations , Night vision compatible cockpit and ground strike capabilities.

Thunders have their own class , but as for the generation goes installing an AESA radar ie Salex Galileo Vixen-1000E , AMRAMMS , IRST , IFR , HMD , PL-12 , reducing weight by using composite materials , upto 100KTN Thurst engine will surely turn it into a 4+ generation fighter.
No need to be disappointed , the developments take time and so does the technology to get mature.

Regards:

No pun...but adding those features will make it comapireable to BLK 52 if im correct?
Hard points will also be increased,so will be thrust vectoring,link 16 and ground strike capabilities etc........and it sure can become equal to a blk 52 in future........and even yet we are compairing it with F-16 blk 40 ........so wats the hurdle?
Let it mature, grow up and become a dady:cheers:
 
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No pun...but adding those features will make it comapireable to BLK 52 if im correct?
Hard points will also be increased,so will be thrust vectoring,link 16 and ground strike capabilities etc........and it sure can become equal to a blk 52 in future........and even yet we are compairing it with F-16 blk 40 ........so wats the hurdle?
Let it mature, grow up and become a dady:cheers:

To be able to comparable to Block 52+ it has to have these features.

Night vision compatible cockpit , Faster data link system , 9 hard points , at least 100ktn Thurst engine (F-16 has 127ktn Thrust engine with AB) AESA Radar , Reduced weight , higher TTWR ,
Increased speed upto mach 2 from current mach 1.8 , HMD/S .

There is a bit of work to be done on it but it has the potential to stand in 4+ generation fighters.
 
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Give PAF a little time and you will be pleased with their efforts.

Sir,

You know that, I know that and the others know it as well---PAF has had a lots of time at their disposal---they were given a carte blanche---they were given all the time they asked for and they delievered a DUDD.

The problem that I am bringing out is their incompetence to understand the they have failed again one more time. They are still living in the illusion that there is nothing that they have done is wrong. That is what the biggest part of the problem is.

It was the PAF that decided after 9/11 that the indian threat would diminish and there was no urgency to get a fighter plane right away. It was them that were playing these games in sweden with the SAAB grippen---they were in france checking out the rafael---in u s doing whatever they wanted to do---.

Mr Shamim---they promised me delivery of a system that would counter the indian BVR euipped plane---not a donkey cart---I didnot want a manure spreader---I asked for an eagle flying high dominating the skies---they promised but delievered me a bird living on carrion.

I want to talk about the first batch---this first batch was supposed to be equipped with potent BVR's---this first batch that would have brought some respectability and strength to my nation---there was so much pomp and glory.

What I am saying is that the paf put too many bets on a totally new equipment---a completely untested system---. That is what happens when you put new and untested systems into service---where the designer doesnot have much experience either and neither do you. Where does that end up then---in the muck. Ain't we stuck for now.

Mr Shamim---PAF was never able to analyze the situation after 9/11 properly---they never showed if they understood the urgency and what was at stake---.

The last chief of the air force rented his house in islamabd to the company that made the awacs for uamerican $4500 / month---. He understood the urgency at that time.

The F 22 has issues and so do other planes as well---they are brand new birds---their makers can afford to go through what is happening. Pakistan cannot go through what PAF is putting it through.

PAF should have understood the difficulties in flying the first born---and hedging all their bets on an unknown system---the plane---the radar---the missile---and the weapons control system---give me a break guys.

This job should have been done in spare time---.

We had the money---we had cash---between 2002 and 2005---there was nothing stopping us---the west had not started to hate us again at that time---


Now you people know why the air forces of other nations don't mess with manufacturing their own plane---there is a prudent reason for that---. If ou had let the american air force design aircraft after 2nd war war---they would still been manufacturing P 51 mustangs---because that is what the pilots loved to fly.

Sir, wars are fought on the principals what you acquired day before yesterday---trained on it yesterday to AVOID the battle of today.

Over here everything is just the opposite---is it the pakistani syndrome or what---.

Pshamim, I will bet you that nothing will be okay for a long time to come---you know why----because the paf has not changed its attitude and understanding. Untill and unless they do that---they will be acting like heavy iron chains holding pakistan back.

Your major weapons system must make a statement---it must make the enemy think---it must put pressure on the enemy to come to the table for peac---we are nowhere close to that. The enemy is rather satisfied at our clumsy effort.
 
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Sir,

You know that, I know that and the others know it as well---PAF has had a lots of time at their disposal---they were given a carte blanche---they were given all the time they asked for and they delievered a DUDD.

The problem that I am bringing out is their incompetence to understand the they have failed again one more time. They are still living in the illusion that there is nothing that they have done is wrong. That is what the biggest part of the problem is.

It was the PAF that decided after 9/11 that the indian threat would diminish and there was no urgency to get a fighter plane right away. It was them that were playing these games in sweden with the SAAB grippen---they were in france checking out the rafael---in u s doing whatever they wanted to do---.

Mr Shamim---they promised me delivery of a system that would counter the indian BVR euipped plane---not a donkey cart---I didnot want a manure spreader---I asked for an eagle flying high dominating the skies---they promised but delievered me a bird living on carrion.

I want to talk about the first batch---this first batch was supposed to be equipped with potent BVR's---this first batch that would have brought some respectability and strength to my nation---there was so much pomp and glory.

What I am saying is that the paf put too many bets on a totally new equipment---a completely untested system---. That is what happens when you put new and untested systems into service---where the designer doesnot have much experience either and neither do you. Where does that end up then---in the muck. Ain't we stuck for now.

Mr Shamim---PAF was never able to analyze the situation after 9/11 properly---they never showed if they understood the urgency and what was at stake---.

The last chief of the air force rented his house in islamabd to the company that made the awacs for uamerican $4500 / month---. He understood the urgency at that time.

The F 22 has issues and so do other planes as well---they are brand new birds---their makers can afford to go through what is happening. Pakistan cannot go through what PAF is putting it through.

PAF should have understood the difficulties in flying the first born---and hedging all their bets on an unknown system---the plane---the radar---the missile---and the weapons control system---give me a break guys.

This job should have been done in spare time---.

We had the money---we had cash---between 2002 and 2005---there was nothing stopping us---the west had not started to hate us again at that time---


Now you people know why the air forces of other nations don't mess with manufacturing their own plane---there is a prudent reason for that---. If ou had let the american air force design aircraft after 2nd war war---they would still been manufacturing P 51 mustangs---because that is what the pilots loved to fly.

Sir, wars are fought on the principals what you acquired day before yesterday---trained on it yesterday to AVOID the battle of today.

Over here everything is just the opposite---is it the pakistani syndrome or what---.

Pshamim, I will bet you that nothing will be okay for a long time to come---you know why----because the paf has not changed its attitude and understanding. Untill and unless they do that---they will be acting like heavy iron chains holding pakistan back.

Your major weapons system must make a statement---it must make the enemy think---it must put pressure on the enemy to come to the table for peac---we are nowhere close to that. The enemy is rather satisfied at our clumsy effort.

Woaahhh easy there buddy, you're not helping the already gloomy atmosphere. I am not a technical person nor I have insider information from PAF to verify or deny what you are saying, but what I can say is this. What you are doing here is on one hand demoralizing and destroying the heroic image of PAF that laymen civilians like myself have created in our minds while on the other hand, strengthening the beliefs of the "other side" that we are as puny as an ants antennas in front of them. I am sure everything you have said you must have said 'coz you are sure about it and i am sure Sir Pshamim and some others know and understand what you are saying, but for the majority of us laymen it is extremely disheartening. I understand that living in false beliefs is not the best thing but than opening admitting your weaknesses isn't ideal as well.

I don't know what JF-17 was supposed to be and how it has come out, all i know is that we are proud of our Air Force to have made a fighter jet which our much stronger and wealthier enemy has not managed to do as yet.
 
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Chinese VP due next month
Tanvir Siddiqi

Islamabad—The Chinese Vice Premier will visit Pakistan next month to further promote the existing friendly and brotherly bonds between the two countries.

This was stated by the Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Luo Zhao Hui during a farewell meeting with Federal Minister for Privatization Waqar Ahmed Khan here on Thursday.

Luo Zhao Hui, who is leaving after successfully serving more than three years in Pakistan said that the frequent interaction between the top leadership of both the countries at all levels have helped to accelerate pace of projects like JF-17 Thunder aircrafts, Gawadar Sea Port, Chashma Hydro and other projects. .

Senator Waqar said that President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani attached great importance with regard to relations with China, said a press statement of Privatization Commission issued here today.

Chinese VP due next month
 
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Woaahhh easy there buddy, you're not helping the already gloomy atmosphere. I am not a technical person nor I have insider information from PAF to verify or deny what you are saying, but what I can say is this. What you are doing here is on one hand demoralizing and destroying the heroic image of PAF that laymen civilians like myself have created in our minds while on the other hand, strengthening the beliefs of the "other side" that we are as puny as an ants antennas in front of them. I am sure everything you have said you must have said 'coz you are sure about it and i am sure Sir Pshamim and some others know and understand what you are saying, but for the majority of us laymen it is extremely disheartening. I understand that living in false beliefs is not the best thing but than opening admitting your weaknesses isn't ideal as well.

I don't know what JF-17 was supposed to be and how it has come out, all i know is that we are proud of our Air Force to have made a fighter jet which our much stronger and wealthier enemy has not managed to do as yet.

Well brother if you have a counter argument on the validity of MK's post, based on some technical or logical aspect then we would like to hear it. But just because something that has been said disturbs you and therefore should not be said whether it is valid or not ... is perhaps deluding yourself.

We shouldn't fear facing disturbing issues and try to cringe to our own comfort zones.

For the record ... I don't believe the situation is gloomy at all. We have been thru more vulnerable periods where we were even more outclassed than we are right now. Yes there is a delay in the JF-17 becoming what it was promised to be. But remedial steps are being taken.

Take heart don't despair. Our decision makers will be making good & bad decisions. We have to live with it.

Regards
 
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Sir,

You know that, I know that and the others know it as well---PAF has had a lots of time at their disposal---they were given a carte blanche---they were given all the time they asked for and they delievered a DUDD.

The problem that I am bringing out is their incompetence to understand the they have failed again one more time. They are still living in the illusion that there is nothing that they have done is wrong. That is what the biggest part of the problem is.

It was the PAF that decided after 9/11 that the indian threat would diminish and there was no urgency to get a fighter plane right away. It was them that were playing these games in sweden with the SAAB grippen---they were in france checking out the rafael---in u s doing whatever they wanted to do---.

Mr Shamim---they promised me delivery of a system that would counter the indian BVR euipped plane---not a donkey cart---I didnot want a manure spreader---I asked for an eagle flying high dominating the skies---they promised but delievered me a bird living on carrion.

I want to talk about the first batch---this first batch was supposed to be equipped with potent BVR's---this first batch that would have brought some respectability and strength to my nation---there was so much pomp and glory.

What I am saying is that the paf put too many bets on a totally new equipment---a completely untested system---. That is what happens when you put new and untested systems into service---where the designer doesnot have much experience either and neither do you. Where does that end up then---in the muck. Ain't we stuck for now.

Mr Shamim---PAF was never able to analyze the situation after 9/11 properly---they never showed if they understood the urgency and what was at stake---.

The last chief of the air force rented his house in islamabd to the company that made the awacs for uamerican $4500 / month---. He understood the urgency at that time.

The F 22 has issues and so do other planes as well---they are brand new birds---their makers can afford to go through what is happening. Pakistan cannot go through what PAF is putting it through.

PAF should have understood the difficulties in flying the first born---and hedging all their bets on an unknown system---the plane---the radar---the missile---and the weapons control system---give me a break guys.

This job should have been done in spare time---.

We had the money---we had cash---between 2002 and 2005---there was nothing stopping us---the west had not started to hate us again at that time---


Now you people know why the air forces of other nations don't mess with manufacturing their own plane---there is a prudent reason for that---. If ou had let the american air force design aircraft after 2nd war war---they would still been manufacturing P 51 mustangs---because that is what the pilots loved to fly.

Sir, wars are fought on the principals what you acquired day before yesterday---trained on it yesterday to AVOID the battle of today.

Over here everything is just the opposite---is it the pakistani syndrome or what---.

Pshamim, I will bet you that nothing will be okay for a long time to come---you know why----because the paf has not changed its attitude and understanding. Untill and unless they do that---they will be acting like heavy iron chains holding pakistan back.

Your major weapons system must make a statement---it must make the enemy think---it must put pressure on the enemy to come to the table for peac---we are nowhere close to that. The enemy is rather satisfied at our clumsy effort.

Brother you really make a bold argument ...... and sadly above mentioned points are facts , our air force already wasted too much time . once i asked in this forum about jf-17's first batch's BVR capability i was informed that first batch will be BVR capable... but now I'm feeling disappointment. :undecided:
 
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Brother you really make a bold argument ...... and sadly above mentioned points are facts , our air force already wasted too much time . once i asked in this forum about jf-17's first batch's BVR capability i was informed that first batch will be BVR capable... but now I'm feeling disappointment. :undecided:

The question is what do we mean by first batch! If we mean that it is just the 14 JF-17s already inducted then yes what you are saying is true. But if we mean literally the entire 1st batch i.e. the 1st 50 or so planes, then I guess no. Because a sizable chunk of the remaining would be BVR armed.

Thats my opinion.
 
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The question is what do we mean by first batch! If we mean that it is just the 14 JF-17s already inducted then yes what you are saying is true. But if we mean literally the entire 1st batch i.e. the 1st 50 or so planes, then I guess no. Because a sizable chunk of the remaining would be BVR armed.

Thats my opinion.

How can you say that "sizable chunk will be BVR capable". issue about fitting KLJ-10 radar on thunders not solved yet and when it will be solved ....there is no deadline about it . it think its just your speculation ...
 
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Dear MK,
There is no dispute over the fact that 90 was a lost decade, for PAF but the performance/results from 2000 to 2006 were very promising.... we have JF-17less BVR.... (as long not publicized!)
From 2007 onwards again performance is not same as previous 8 years. I agree results from 2007 - 2010 had been extremly dissappointed and way below estimated forecast, but it seems to be linked with the new govt. rather than PAF.
If you start looking at results by adding both past decades than out come will definately not be healthy.
In any case i see funds the core issue behind not having goodies like AESA or BVR.
btw... The French deception is poor diplomatic performace by the govt. rather than any thing to be associated, with PAF.... that's what i think!

If we need to intiate BVR and AESA projects..again we need funds!
If we need to buy Gripen, again we need funds!

At the same time, i also agree that unusual circumstances need unusual approach. If Zardari is hell bent to destroy/delay JF-17 development than there must be a way out... like going public with facts causing delay in project!
 
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How can you say that "sizable chunk will be BVR capable". issue about fitting KLJ-10 radar on thunders not solved yet and when it will be solved ....there is no deadline about it . it think its just your speculation ...

Brother everything is speculation.

However if you wish please refer to the post #2225 by pshamim on page 149 of this thread.

There are still 28 planes left to be inducted out of of the 1st batch. 14 are already inducted with KLJ-7. Another 8 planes are of the SBP which have preceded the first 14. These were the evaluation and weapons testing versions and are not in active service.

Again ... just my opinion.
 
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Also, the deadline is 150 planes by 2015. If the 1st batch gets delayed then the entire target gets delayed. There is always a possibility of this happening, but I don't see any alarming hinderences of that magnitude yet that we cannot overcome these issues within time.
 
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ali its not 150//its 250-300 JF-17.

Yaar, when are you guys gonna grow up and learn what reality is and what are the facts on the ground.

The confirm order for now for JF-17s is 150 till 2015. 200 or 250 is the future target set, for another variant of it after it has gone through some design changes and other specifications.

Check any reliable source, they will quote a confirm order for 150, but the figure can go as high as 250 or 300.
 
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