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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 2]

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well i dont understand what is the problem with this forumn,

i have always tried to be respectfull to seniors but i think many take it for-granted!!

can anyone here kindly point out any thing in my post that may have insulted the JF17!!


i dont think so!!

what i think is that this a disscussion forum and that is what we should do here, rather than criticizing one another for nothing

all i wanted to say in my post is that we cannot compare PAF with IAF by saying that as the indain are undertaking the MKI deal and MRCA project we still stand shoulder to shoulder with them by inducting JF17

with all the love for our very own JF17, i do not find it to be competing with the MRCA project planes, this is what is true, weather it is written on wikipedia or on this very forum!

i will like to ask the senior members to help and support juniors rather than trying to humilate them!!

thankyou and sorry if anyone got offended!


:pakistan:

You didn't get it did you, not now not before, so well no one will waste time in explaining it to you. This is a defense forum and one with alot of information already available in it, all you need is to go back a bit and read and just read and you will find out answers to many of your questions but if you keep on coming with the same thing again and again and which does not make sense and then your posts become rather a judgment then a mere question about PAF and its capabilities against India, then people will come in to tell you to stop and get your facts straight. The post i replied too was in the same tone and rightly deserved a similar reply. Moreover if you think people take you for granted, then make sure they don't and the only way to do so is to increase your knowledge and worth which will be resembled in your posts. People will stop taking you for granted.
 
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no dear the supercruise thing is not correct. the JF17 with a thrust to weight ratio of just 0.98, currently is not able to perform feats but probably the next blocks with better engine and reduced weight due to increased use of avionics may help to acheive this land mark.
as for the BVR test, nothing can be said until some one very near to PAF of the JF17 project tells something.
JF-17's TWR is not 0.98, it is 0.95 from what I have read.

Anyway Sir MuradK has said that JF's TWR is much higher than 0.95, so we don't really know what the actual number is. I think the aircraft is much lighter than they say it is, the RD-93 engine makes the stated thrust but because JF is lighter than we are told, the TWR is higher. Perhaps they are using lots of composites in the airframe already.
This is true with J-10. They say its TWR is 0.98, but in the airshow videos you see it go vertical from take-off. That means J-10's TWR must be higher than 1. Some say this is debateable however, cos J-10 might have been carrying very little fuel.
 
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You didn't get it did you, not now not before, so well no one will waste time in explaining it to you. This is a defense forum and one with alot of information already available in it, all you need is to go back a bit and read and just read and you will find out answers to many of your questions but if you keep on coming with the same thing again and again and which does not make sense and then your posts become rather a judgment then a mere question about PAF and its capabilities against India, then people will come in to tell you to stop and get your facts straight. The post i replied too was in the same tone and rightly deserved a similar reply. Moreover if you think people take you for granted, then make sure they don't and the only way to do so is to increase your knowledge and worth which will be resembled in your posts. People will stop taking you for granted.

well i think you are right, i dont get it, atleast this time!!

i do not know what are you talking about!!:confused:

if you can go back and read the posts you will find out what was going on,,

let me reminde you:

we were talking about the JF17 procurment that which squadrons will be replaced first and what role the first few planes will be assigned. we were informed by a member that it will be the Ground attack role thus repalcing the A5 squadrons,, someone asked that what will be the priority replacements and i mentioned that we are operating a current fleet of this much of that plane and we will be requiring that much JF17z to replace them.....(though not practical but it was not a claim, i never said that, it was just thinking that we will be replacing the existing fleet of old air crafts with the newer JF17)

you come up with the idea of COMPARISON WITH INDIA by telling that the indain are replacing there old planes with fewer numbers state-of-the-art 4.5 generations plane (so we may also induct few JF17 to repalce exixting fleet of A5 and F7PG)

now all i said was that both he projects cannot be matched. the indian are replacing there Migz with far superior plane but we ours with JF17 with though miles ahead of anything we currently operate may not be as good as SU30 MKI or any MRCA project winner EVEN WITH AWACS SUPPORT!!!

sir with all due respect i would request to go through those posts once again!

we must not it a matter of pride that we are always right,

as far as your suggestion of getting knowledge is concerned so that then you think people stop taking things for granted, thank you for it. but dont you think this is true only for educated and sensible people, some will go on with the criticism just for the sake of criticism.

it is nothing personal!
sorry if anyone got offended, i didnt mean to do so,

may ALLAH help us all! Ameen
:pakistan:
 
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JF-17's TWR is not 0.98, it is 0.95 from what I have read.

Anyway Sir MuradK has said that JF's TWR is much higher than 0.95, so we don't really know what the actual number is. I think the aircraft is much lighter than they say it is, the RD-93 engine makes the stated thrust but because JF is lighter than we are told, the TWR is higher. Perhaps they are using lots of composites in the airframe already.
This is true with J-10. They say its TWR is 0.98, but in the airshow videos you see it go vertical from take-off. That means J-10's TWR must be higher than 1. Some say this is debateable however, cos J-10 might have been carrying very little fuel.

yes it is most reliable, they would definitely be keeping some things as the surprise element!!
 
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who deleted my post here.


I thing you must respects one opinion and one thing here i wanna clear upon all either they are Seniour or juniour
All of you must be kool at others opinion
and shows some respects to others view too

And iam much more PAKISTANI than any one else here
so dont deleted my post without assigning any reasons OK
 
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A model picture of JF-17 published by the Xinhua news on feb-2, 2009.

e14b9a5b6e4df7d51f55ec9ed566aa94.jpg

“Fierce Dragon” fighter plane model picture origin: Surrounds the net
 
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A model picture of JF-17 published by the Xinhua news on feb-2, 2009.

e14b9a5b6e4df7d51f55ec9ed566aa94.jpg

“Fierce Dragon” fighter plane model picture origin: Surrounds the net

nice plane but dont you think it has less wing area for its size .
 
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Hi,

At times---most of the posters are comparing Jf 17 to the indian MRCA---we need to understand that JF 17 is here now---today---filling in a certain gap in our air forces capabilities---MRCA will be when it is ordered.

What people need to understand that once the indian MRCA gets ordered---and we know what it is and what it has----and it will be around 3 ---5 years from the date of agreement that the planes start coming in----paf will have time to analyze and re-adjust the changes that are needed to be made to its newer procurements and upgrades at that time for their upcoming JF 17's and FC 20's.

THe Jf 17 coming in the first operational sqdrn would be at least 3 to 10 times electronically advanced and superior to any other air craft in the PAF inventory except for the F 16 MLU----that is a tragedy in itself---as a matter of fact it is a travesty.
 
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ISLAMABAD - After years of coping with U.S. and international sanctions intended to keep Pakistan from going nuclear, the country has renewed its air power and obtained vital missile and airborne warning capabilities without Western help.

The U.S. sanctions imposed in 1990 did considerable damage to the Air Force. The embargo on the transfer of 71 Peace Gate-III/IV F-16s and their AIM-7 Sparrows kept the service from acquiring a beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) capability. Also beyond reach were airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft, whose capabilities were sorely missed during the 1980s, when Soviet aircraft engaged in combat operations in neighboring Afghanistan continuously intruded into Pakistani airspace.

This also left the military at a severe disadvantage against India's much larger Air Force, whose Mirage-2000H and MiG-29As carried BVRAAMs.

Islamabad attempted to close the gap with mid-1990s efforts to buy 40 Mirage-2000Cs, but that deal was scuppered by corruption allegations during the second tenure of Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and the fall of that government.

In dire straits, Pakistan turned to close ally China. Initially, China could only provide low-tech solutions like the F-7P, already selected to complement the high-tech F-16s. Modernizing Mirage-III aircraft with Italian Grifo-M radars eased the strain somewhat, but there was still the question of a BVRAAM weapon.

But together, China and Pakistan have now developed their own BVRAAM-equipped fighter and AEW aircraft: the Sino-Pakistani JF-17 Thunder multirole combat aircraft and the KJ-200/ZDK-03 AEW&C system.

Protection From Future Sanctions

Both programs have allowed Pakistan to boost its own aviation and defense electronics industries, with the eventual aim of being able to provide an indigenous, "sanction-proof" alternative to foreign suppliers.

The JF-17 will enter frontline operational service by the end of 2009, armed with the Chinese SD-10/PL-12 BVRAAM.

Officials have hinted about buying other weapons for later batches of the JF-17, such as the MBDA Mica. Wing Commander Asim Malik, a flight test engineer on the JF-17 program, would not speak directly on the subject. But "the mission computer can cope with any potential weapon integration," he said.

Malik said this was linked to its considerable export potential, "as the JF-17 is the only medium-tech aircraft in this price bracket, so there is a queue of vendors wanting to supply systems for the aircraft."

December also saw Pakistan sign a $278 million deal for four Chinese KJ-2000/ZDK03 AEW&C aircraft, whose active electronically steered array radar is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600. It is somewhat similar to the Saab-2000-mounted Ericsson FRS-890 Erieye system on order from Sweden.

The ZDK-03 purchase, as with the joint JF-17 program, has an element of technology transfer, said defense analyst Usman Shabbir of the Pakistan Military Consortium.

"The Pakistan Air Force sees this procurement of ZDK03 AEW&C as a long-term investment, enabling it to tap into the emerging Chinese capabilities in this field," Shabbir said. "A team of PAF engineers is already working with the Chinese into refining the performance of this system, and China is also helping to set up labs for advance avionics R&D within Pakistan."

When the United States lifted sanctions in 2002, Pakistan once more sought American help to modernize its air arm but has continued to draw closer to China. In 2006, Islamabad and Washington concluded a $5.1 billion deal for 18 new-build F-16C/D Block-52+ aircraft, upgrades for 28 F-16A/B Block-15s, midlife upgrade kits, and 500 AIM-120C5 advanced medium-range air-to-air missiles. The Pakistan Navy also is set to acquire an AEW&C system based on the P-3B Orion airframe.

Lockheed Martin spokesman Costas Papadopoulos said last November that work was set to begin on some aircraft.

Though the American avenue for high-tech systems has been restored, Islamabad has not turned away from the alternative modernization program started with the help of China in the 1990s. Its aim was to acquire indigenous production capabilities in these areas and protect Pakistan from future sanctions.

The expected order for 40 Chengdu J-10/FC-20 fighters from China later this year, to complement Pakistan's F-16s, will further ensure Pakistan is less reliant on Western technology. Islamabad's efforts to avoid a repeat of the sanctions that almost crippled its air arm for nearly two decades are almost complete.

Source : Defense News
 
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I hope its not a repost :)

A PAF JF-17 with weapon pylons mounted, in a hangar at PAF Minhas airbase, Kamra


A PAF JF-17, armed with two AIM-9L Sidewinder missiles mounted on the wing-tip hardpoints, at PAF Minhas airbase, Kamra
 
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I've found out from a source that JF-17 production line is still not operational because Zardari has stopped funds..Is this true or not anyone with reliable source let us know thanks..Also i heard they are saying Italian Radar is chosen for it...
 
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How many sq. of JF-17 pakistan have?

Also,please post the link with your post.
 
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ok a question here someone said that our JF-17 T/W ratio is 0.98 if that is the case ...why can't our plane go straight up i forgot the offical term used for it but what i mean is that once the plane takes off it can go vertically up!! that usually happens when ur T/W ratio is 1 or somewhere close to it.....
 
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I've found out from a source that JF-17 production line is still not operational because Zardari has stopped funds..Is this true or not anyone with reliable source let us know thanks..Also i heard they are saying Italian Radar is chosen for it...

That would be highly unlikely as Zardari won't mess up with the defense sector. The import of the parts from china are based on soft loans and local cost would be paid in Rs. and also Govt. releases fund at the beginning of the year to armed forces and then they will have to pay for it.

Which Italian radar, and where did you hear it?

How many sq. of JF-17 pakistan have?

Also,please post the link with your post.

The first will be inducted before the mid of this year. Currently, there are 16/17 planes.

ok a question here someone said that our JF-17 T/W ratio is 0.98 if that is the case ...why can't our plane go straight up i forgot the offical term used for it but what i mean is that once the plane takes off it can go vertically up!! that usually happens when ur T/W ratio is 1 or somewhere close to it.....

Who said they couldn't? you're talking as if you are dead certain they can't. Btw the T/W ratio is about 0.96.

With gradual introduction of more composites and improvement/replacement of the RD-93 engine, the performance of the JF-17 will boost up significantly.

If we go by the 25-30 aircrafts per year, and we already have 16 or 17...that means the first batch of 50 aircrafts would be completed by maximum of mid of 2010. Anybody knows if we are going for the second batch immediately or if there would be a delay before the second batch?
 
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