JF-17 Thunder - Information Pool

[Manticore]

houshangai-

nabil-

1) Considering the medium tech avionics on JFT, they are better to what SAGEM proposed to PAF back in 2005 so yes they are on par or even batter as we had three options to choose from and we went with Chinese. (Italian too)

2) Only area that i know where China WAS lagging was in high tech avionics and radar but the arrival of j-10b and now with j-20, it should be covered too as only three nations have their stealth fighters out there. Many things will be revealed in near future. ''

"Chinese sources have claimed that the FC-1's combat effectiveness will be over 70 per cent of that of modern Western third generation fighter aircraft such as the F-16 (which its redesign makes it superficially resemble). However, this improved capability has also increased its export price by over 35 per cent. Consequently, nations interested in FC-1 purchases, such as Pakistan which is co-funding the design and hopes to procure about 150, have requested its adoption by the PLAAF to lower overall procurement costs. The FC-1's original design has probably benefited from a subsequent infusion of significant new Russian and Western technology. One unconfirmed report indicates that the FC-1 could have an advanced real-time multiple sensor data-fusion and inter-aircraft data-link/sharing capability made possible by the use of eight 64-bit processor computers in its avionics suite. Other advanced systems reportedly being integrated in the FC-1 include look-down shoot-down targeting, night combat capabilities, track-while-scan, and electronic jamming systems.
Reportedly, China has received Russian Mikoyan OKB assistance in the redesign of the FC-1 new generation fighter aircraft (with the integration of MiG-29/33 technologies), which could see wide PLAAF deployment by 2000 as an alternative to upgrading the near obsolete J-7II and J-7III inventory. The FC-1 could also employ Russian designed aero-engines (RD-93 or AL-31), radar systems (Kapyo) and missiles (R-27) transferred with the Su-27. One report from 1998 indicated that Russia was offering a lightweight close-air-combat
'Product 33' fighter powered by a single RD-33 aero-engine used to power the MiG-29, and similar in appearance to the US F-16, as a
complete solution for the FC-1 Three European suppliers have reportedly bid on the FC-1 radar contract since 1997: GEC-Marconi's Bluehawk or Super Skyranger; Alenia's Grifo S7 with the Aspide AAM system; and Thomson-CSF/Sagem's RC-400. Russia has also offered the Kopyo radar. Preliminary statistics for the FC-1 are a top speed of mach 1.6 at 16,500 m, and a maximum take-off weight of 12,700 kg. A unit cost range of US$15-25 million
has been suggested by various sources.

santro-
The processor on the JF is already fusing sensor data from two different sensors at this time..
The KJL..and the EW suite...all dumping data on the mil-bus...
When the IRST comes in.. it will be seamlessly integrated into the system via the mil-bus''

 

[Manticore]

nabil-
Work on JFT EW began in Pakistan even before other avionics, WMMC, radar, MFDs etc. The reason for asking French for a customized version of SPECTRA that i disclosed here was because we, and Chinese, are already working on similar technology, advanced algorithms to significantly reduce incoming threats, RCS, heat plumb etc. This EW system is ready to be tested and will be incorporated in second batch onwards. It is not as complicated as SPECTRA but significantly reduces the threat to JFT. Even current block has a better version of complete EW, very similar to what the Chinese J-10a uses, SE-2 (JFT Missile Approach & Warning System) is absent in J-10a but visible in J-10b, J-11b etc. I can tell u that JFT has least RCS among all PAF fighter fleet inventory, cant go any further on this .
If you look closely at DSI shape, you will notice that they are designed as a blunt, engine covering surfaces, yet they provide ample airflow to the engine at very high Angle of Attack. They play as much role in JFT's agility as does its LERX and Digital FBW. Particularly to reduce/absorb radar rays in an efficient manner (its no way near stealth). Its surface is as rounded as it could be done. This plays a pivotal role in reducing the frontal RCS. Also, the engine is not visible through DSI and one has to see closely to locate engine blades. Its heartening to see how it has evolved..

Its airframe is designed to pull 9Gs. Zhuhai performance confirms this although it was less than what it can do in real combat scenario. Instantaneous as well as Sustained turn rate is higher than the f-16 for sure judging from airshow videos even though it was at around 400-600 kts at best. It is showing more promise than, at least i thought, for a main stay fighter. Other day, i saw praise for it on an Indian forum which is a rare event indeed.


It has pushed to 9Gs more than 2 dozen times during PAF trials since 2008-2010 and its airshow performance is an ample proof of this. Regarding rd-93, neither it is under powered nor the most powerful around and it gives JFT the ability to make vertical climbs even at nominal speeds. Those quick turns and climbs are more than a proof of its strong airframe capable of sustained 9G performance. I recommend you to see the JFT Zhuhai videos closely and repeatedly, concentrating on every turn and maneuver and especially those long smoke, moisture trials seem attached to the wings almost every time it maneuvers, to understand what i am talking about. Not everything can be proved on a public forum, having a little improvisation with rational thought never hurts.

Smoke is only visible when throttle is pushed which results in access fuel in the engine chamber which results in smoke and this is the case with all turbofans out there including the Pratt & Whitney, GE, Snecma, RDs, Salyuts etc to name a few , notice the smoke only comes out when the aircraft is in need of thrust otherwise there is no smoke trail. Educate yourself on how the aircraft engine works than argue.


For those who think JFT has mechanical controls in roll or yaw, watch the Zhuhai videos to see its FBW performance especially low speed roll after recovering from vertical climb. It revolves on its own axis and maintains position, instead, if you look at Mirage or f-7, they lose their actual position while rolling. F-16 also rolls similar to JFT.

35 PAF engineers part of JFT development team from the beginning of project. They didnt go there to watch and learn, but to contribute their share of expertise, the idea of DSI, extended lerx, ecm housing, full glass cockpit, high performance mission computers (we have been using them on ROSE mirage and F-16s for many years and we got tremendous boost to our avionics development capability by contributing with French, Italians for last 15 years) quad fly-by-wire, all in pt 04, is the brainchild of our engineers..




For JF-17 Kamra.

• S9100 Test Station.
• S8862 in Circuit Test Station.
• LASAAR Software. M/s Teradyne, USA
2 Development tools for JF-17 Kamra. M/s Windriver, USA.
3 Power Generators 150KVA M/s FG Wilson, UK
4 Load Cells M/s Futek, USA.
5 Standby Batteries M/s Hawker, Enersys France.




After reading the above discussions i find difficult to hide the JFT RCS i came to know, but let me just say for now, it is the most difficult aircraft to spot on the radar in PAF inventory at the moment and this includes the blk 52 too! No exaggeration here, plain facts..

PAF tested both ALQ131 and KG300G on JFT. the latter was found more efficient and supports more jamming modes, algorithms having true multiple mode jamming capability. It comprises of a mixture of Chinese, Israeli and Russian jamming technologies and is based on all digital circuitry. First entered service in 1997 and since than improved twice over its service life in Chinese Arm Forces, next variant is considered in the class of more advanced jammers/ ecm pods available in the world today.

Without going into details, JFT's KG300G, internal jammer has proved itself as a very efficient multi band jamming sensor and will make JFT a hard nut to crack in intense combat scenarios..

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-83.html#post1413772
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...tirole-fighter-thread-4-a-83.html#post1414399

 

[Fearless Warrior]

 

[Manticore]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...irole-fighter-thread-4-a-100.html#post1513264
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...irole-fighter-thread-4-a-100.html#post1513320
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...irole-fighter-thread-4-a-100.html#post1513411
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...irole-fighter-thread-4-a-102.html#post1537388

 

[Manticore]

 

[Manticore]

KG300G Airborne Self-Protection Jamming Pod

China Defense Blog: KG300G Airborne Self-Protection Jamming Pod

KG300G
Suspended ultimately fitted for protection of their own aircraft and helicopters in bands I and J. It has a modular design and contains advanced electronics for maximum effectiveness against modern radars, especially air pulsed Doppler radar. Enemy radar parameters are accurately measured, and their basis is optimized direction, frequency and timing noise.
Electronics container ensures optimal resource management (power management) and time switching between activities (time sharing). The system should work and be electromagnetically compatible with the avionics rack, ie. should not disturb her. Can be either integrated or operate independently of other systems, electronic warfare aircraft (eg, RWR). The system automatically warns and responding to enemy radar detection focus.

Length: 3.300 m
Diameter: 0.330 m
Weight: 150 kg

Frequency range: 6.5 to 17.5 GHz
Power Source: DC 28V, 1850 W
Electrical interface: MIL-STD-1760

 

[Manticore]

http://dc254.*******.com/img/peU1pGa8/0.5701777990635756/5213303145_136b4e4451_b.jpghttp://dc254.*******.com/img/Kdt7E9Xp/0.14231073671739214/5213302777_a992a4ed02_b.jpghttp://dc254.*******.com/img/xqflb6Ly/0.3864891378926344/5213896150_cb92020707_b.jpg

 

[Manticore]

The Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) is a guidance kit that converts unguided bombs, or "dumb bombs" into all-weather "smart" munitions. JDAM-equipped bombs are guided by an integrated inertial guidance system coupled to a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver, giving them a published range of up to 15 nautical miles (28 km).

Integration (JDAM)
Planned-Follow-on integration efforts are currently underway or planned to evaluate compatibility with:
* JF-17 Thunder

GBU-31: Mk84 bomb fitted with JDAM

Paveway IV is a new-generation dual mode GPS/INS and laser guided bomb for use by military aircraft.
The weapon is a guidance kit based on the existing Enhanced Paveway II Enhanced Computer Control Group (ECCG) added to a modified Mk 82 general-purpose bomb with increased penetration performance
Mk 82

GBU-10 Paveway II
American Paveway-series laser-guided bomb, based on the Mk 84 general-purpose bomb, but with laser seeker and wings for guidance.

GBU-12 Paveway II
The GBU-12 PAVEWAY II laser-guided bomb is an American aerial bomb, based on the Mk 82 500-pound general-purpose bomb, but with the addition of a nose-mounted laser seeker and fins for guidance

H-2/4 Precision-guided glide bomb
lt-3

LT-2 -at the 7th Zhuhai Airshow held at in November, 2008, the developer of the LT series revealed that LT series precision guided bombs are actually based on the American Paveway design

LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs

jf17 Precision guided munitions (PGM):

* GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
* H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[8] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs[111]
* Satellite-guided bombs[8]

uptill page 106

 

[Manticore]

JF-17 for PAF are going to be in 3 colors , dark grey, light grey and the last will be a mixture of brown and lightbrown.

plz dont speculate here , i am just posting the info - you can discuss this in jft thread4

 

[Manticore]

i wouldve used this in my signature if there had been an option!

 

[Manticore]

the other pic of V-head JFT PT in yanliang was taken by mr.G(goneless) in cdf
Actually Mr.G is not ordinary guy and he is a semi-internal person in yanliang(CATC) too.

The other V-head JFT's sketch was painted by Mr.G （goneless) in cdf
A recent rumor (March 2011) suggested that an improved version with a stealth optimized forward fuselage (diamond-shaped nose cross section?) is being developed.

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force


http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/104177-jf-17-stealth-new-pak-china-joint-venutre.html

btw,the bird had made its first flight in the earlier this year

 

[Manticore]

according to this , the mar1 original range is far more than 25km written on wiki
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/19447-air-air-missiles-command-air-3.html#post1738855

 

[razgriz19]

according to this , the mar1 original range is far more than 25km written on wiki
http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/19447-air-air-missiles-command-air-3.html#post1738855

yes it is, brazilian officials said it a very long time ago that it was wayyy longer than 25km.
i think they just didn't want to reveal its orignal range...

 

[ziaulislam]

can naone post whether pakistan will use darters on jf-17..or any indigenous equivalent/copy??
what A2A missles would be used in first 100 aircraft in addition to chinese sd-10 and aim 9
i guess klj-7 cant be integrated to fire aim 120??