JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[Peregrine]

Some deals are above deals Pakistan and France have strategic cooperation
French/China are special of course China is Eternal Friends , but french have been there for us.

Never undermine the French

, I see Rapheal in Pak Airforce, Mirages (out) - Rapheals (in)
Its ideal fighter 4.5 generation fighter for our needs in 2015/2016

And we are getting Merlines

Hi
LoL, Man u have a blind faith in French, well who knows what will happen, so keep on wishing may they will get answered

 

[ARCHON]

France / Defense-A contract with Pakistan not on the agenda
18h05 Friday, April 2, 2010 Print this article [- ] Text [+]
PARIS, April 2 (Reuters) - A future contract on the equipment by France fighter aircraft of Pakistan is not on the agenda because Islamabad is not ready, said Friday the presidency the French Republic.

The economic situation in Pakistan is difficult and the country has already received a loan of 11.3 billion International Monetary Fund.

"It is a matter that is not ready at all on the Pakistani side," it was stated in the entourage of Nicolas Sarkozy, asked about an article referring to the blocking of the World by Paris of 1.2 billion contract euros.

"For now, the state of the file does not give away," they added.

According to Le Monde on April 3, France "will not give its green light to a contract of 1.2 billion euros for the electronics equipment and missile than a hundred fighter aircraft JF-17 , manufactured by Pakistan with Chinese assistance.

After 18 months of negotiations, the French company OTE, coupled with Thales (TCFP.PA: Quote ) and MBDA, was retained by Islamabad.

It was the first part of a package of six billion euros to equip the whole of the JF-17 Pakistan Air Force, nearly 400 fighters, the paper recalls French.

The contract could be concluded during the visit to Paris of Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, April 19.

A spokesman for Thales declined to comment.

(Elizabeth Pineau, Yann Le Guernigou, edited by Yves Clarisse)

http://fr.reuters.com/article/frEuroRpt/idFRLDE6310G920100402

 

[qsaark]

Actually it is Chinas behaviour of illegally copying techs, that impacts here on Pakistan!

So long the technology is not falling in Chinese hands through Pakistan, this should not affect Pakistan. At any rate, I have always maintain that we must sack our 'western technology' obsession for good otherwise we will (though already are) sink under the weight of this self-imposed Obsessive–Compulsive Disorder (OCD). If Chinese can rely on their low, mid or high-end or whatever level of technology to defend their nation, so can we.

 

[ARCHON]

France suspended the sale of weapons to Pakistan to $ 1.6 million


France has suspended the sale to Pakistan of military equipment (electronics and missiles) to JF-17 at $ 1.6 million, told a source in the administration of French President Nicolas Sarkozy. According to him, the Pakistani side is not ready to deal.
Earlier the newspaper Le Monde wrote that Paris intends to freeze the first part of the contract for the sale of weapons to Pakistan (the total cost - € 6 billion), due to pressure India and Pakistan in a state of uncertainty about finance.




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[karan.1970]

These Greedy French they think that by rejecting our 8 billion Dollar Contract they are going to get that MMRCA fish.They will Fail.MMRCA will go to EF and Ultimately french will be left eating Dust.

Forget MMRCA. Even without that, there is just too much going on with France..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/48877-india-france-pursue-major-arms-contracts.html

This ensures, India goes with France instead of Israel for the MIrage and Jaguar upgrades...

 

[ARCHON]

Paris hangs an equipment contract French fighter aircraft of Pakistan


kings weeks before the Paris visit of Pakistani Prime Minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, April 19, the Elysee has recently taken a decision that could overshadow the meeting described as "important" . France does not give, in effect, the green light to a contract of 1.2 billion euros for the electronics equipment and missile than a hundred fighter aircraft JF-17, manufactured by Pakistan with the help of the Chinese.




After eighteen months of negotiations, the French company OTE, coupled with Thales and MBDA, was retained by Islamabad. It was the first part of a package of 6 billion euros for the equipment of all JF-17 Pakistan Air Force, nearly 400 hunters.

"I have not been directly informed of the choice of Elysium, which I find extremely surprising in view of industrial issues and strategic for France in this region" , assured Jean-Marc Pizano , head of ETA.

The interministerial committee to study the export of war materials (CIEEMG) was issued in the summer of 2008, an opinion in favor of opening negotiations. What was needed, according to ETA, the agreement of the French government.

According to an adviser of the President of the Republic, this refusal is, inter alia, related to French-Indian relations. The signing of this contract, in the current context of tension between India and Pakistan, would serve the interests of Paris to New Delhi.

Regarding the Directorate General for Armaments (DGA), was added on Thursday 1 st April, the revival of talks with India to upgrade, by France, the Mirage fleet in 2000 had also played in the decision of the Elysee.

Intense lobbying India

It's the end of a standoff between the different French government amid differences over the policy of France in South Asia. The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs for its part seemed restive. Subject of intense lobbying by India, he believed that government approval was denied by the lack of guarantees related to the protection of French technology. According to the Quai d'Orsay , the Pakistanis wanted, contrary to the terms of the contract, that the assemblies and equipment of JF-17 will do so on their land.

Ministry of Finance, who said he supports the signing and seeking to increase the level of trade relations with Pakistan, it indicates that the contract was struck particularly budgetary issues.

The finances of Islamabad are currently under the supervision of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), which has helped. While negotiations are underway on the extension of this support, Bercy questions the reality of the flexibility of Pakistan to honor a contract of 6 billion euros.

At the Ministry of Defence of Pakistan, Islamabad, was assured, March 24, the World , there was nothing wrong with that contract and that it was hoped that the announcement of the signing would take place at meetings between Gilani and Mr. Sarkozy and Mr Fillon. "As for money, added one of his spokesmen, this is not the IMF decides what is done. This contract is important for Pakistan France has its place among us, alongside the United States and China. "

Finally, another factor that could intervene in this failure, the company OTE has certainly paid his recent presence on the French market. Founded in 1984, South Africa, by Mr. Pizano, a former engineer at Dassault, she previously worked abroad. The market integration of electronic systems on board aircraft is underdeveloped in France. The French aerospace industry and its spearhead, Dassault prefer to sell airplanes entirely.




Paris bloque un contrat d'équipement français d'avions de chasse pakistanais - LeMonde.fr



these are french articles .. do use google translate .. cheers!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think from a Strategic point of view , Pakistan needs to give France a BIG real contract not this rinky dinky avionics upgrades

Look we have 192 Mirages, we need to get rid of these 192 mirages by 2018 , 2015 we sign deal with french to get 150 Rapheal with the AESA radar , and may be 50 Rapheal option for being built in Pakistan I doubt France would object

1) It shows the respect for french for sticking out with us
2) It builds on mutal trust and friendship we share
3) We get AESA
4) We get 4.5 generation fighter
5) France gets major contract for its fighters and more R&D

This is a real deal !!!

JF17 thunder I would be ok if we get Chinese - AESA on it and Chinese avionics on Block 2

Our deal makers don't know how to communicate with people on strategic matters - if I was involved we would already have 2 Merlines being build in Pakistan Shipyards, and we would be talking about Rapheals being made in France for Pakistani Airforce as we speak

And we order 100 J10B from China and 100 J11B from China to show our faith in Chinese Friends and we already are building AWACs in cooperation with China ~

Rapheal is our 4.5 Generation bird we need it 2015

 

[ARCHON]

The government is blocking an agreement on arms sales to Pakistan


Reportedly, the French industrial ATE (Aeronautics and embedded technologies) has just been banned through CIEEMG (Interministerial Commission study of exports of war material) to sign a contract to supply hundreds of millions of euros equipment to the Pakistan Air Force. This decision, which was pending for several months, put an end to five years of negotiations. They were on the point, do we confirm the well-informed source, lead to the sale by France of equipment to be installed on aircraft JF-17 Chinese-designed and manufactured in Pakistan. Under the terms of the original authorization given by the CIEEMG in 2008, the company founded by former ETA Engineering Dassault Aviation Jean-Marc Pizano have installed on these aircraft radars from Thales RC 400, Mica missiles produced by MBDA. The onboard computers were provided by ETA, which has acquired a good expertise in this field. The first 50 JF-17s will be equipped with Chinese system, but the French hoped to equip the rest of the series, planned for 350 aircraft. Not indicated, the total contract amount would be around 15 million per aircraft equipped.

From well-informed source, there are several reasons for the prohibition of this contract, for which another French company, ASTRAC (joint venture Thales / Sagem) has made offers to Pakistan. There is a good source that Paris prefers to support major industries of the place, and that "France must avoid that it takes to hoot and slide between manufacturers. Another remark: "There needs to be diplomatic channels in phase", which clearly indicates that the Elysee prefers to support large contracts under discussion with India , who does not wish to see France remain a supplier of Pakistani armed. Small detail: the Pakistani military budget is six times lower than the Indian budget!

ATE is a special weapon, because it is an "integrator", which buys its equipment from various manufacturers before installing the hardware its customers. Founded in 1985 by Jean-Marc Pizano associated Gendt and Michel Jacques Porta, she first worked in South Africa, before installing its industrial base in Aix-en-Provence, where she expected to create 200 jobs by Contract Pakistan. ETA has built its prosperity including refurbishing aeronautical legacy (French Mirage, Russian helicopters, etc..). Approached by The Point , the company declined to disclose ATE.




Le gouvernement bloque un contrat de ventes d'armements au Pakistan, actualité Défense ouverte : Le Point

 

[SekrutYakhni]

So long the technology is not falling in Chinese hands through Pakistan, this should not affect Pakistan. At any rate, I have always maintain that we must sack our 'western technology' obsession for good otherwise we will (though already are) sink under the weight of this self-imposed Obsessive–Compulsive Disorder (OCD).

This "western" superiority has ruined our country.
O levels is better than Matriculation. Well, it is but we never focused to improve our syllabus.
Furthermore, it doomed "our" educational system and it created class difference.
People who did O and A levels were considered superior to others.
Western obsession is hurting our defence area also.
I mean we should argue that in which areas we are not getting doomed.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We still need credible confirmation and Intl if..even if what appears to be deal off...Pakistan will come up with secondary plans..perhaps more F-16s apart from what we heard a few days earlier and keep JF-17 with Chinese avionics for the mean time...French can decide what is right what is wrong we can't stop them its their govt to decide..but we've seen they've misrebly failed with rafale except for brazil is there any other confirmed customer of Rafale apart from french air force itself? No! So if they want to axe themselves time and again let them, PAF has multiple plans no one knew of 14 extra F-16s and we got surprised by PAF therefore don't panic for a billion dollars PAF can get a extra 18 blk 50+ F-16s and rest of 600 million dollars can go towards China for JF-17 avionics. So who lose? decide for yourself.

 

[ARCHON]

We still need credible confirmation and Intl if..even if what appears to be deal off...Pakistan will come up with secondary plans..perhaps more F-16s apart from what we heard a few days earlier and keep JF-17 with Chinese avionics for the mean time...French can decide what is right what is wrong we can't stop them its their govt to decide..but we've seen they've misrebly failed with rafale except for brazil is there any other confirmed customer of Rafale apart from french air force itself? No! So if they want to axe themselves time and again let them, PAF has multiple plans no one knew of 14 extra F-16s and we got surprised by PAF therefore no don't panic for 1 a billion dollars PAF can get a extra 18 blk 50+ F-16ss and rest of 600 million dollars can go towards China for JF-17 avionics. So who lose? decide for yourself.

Sir in your opinion which one is better a F-16 or rafale ?/

 

[Luftwaffe]

AZADPAKISTAN2009...once we get a slap in the face don't bother thinking about going there again except for F-16s eternal love despite whatever US does to Pakistan we'll opt for it no problems I think PAF has come up with that solution too "Turkey" lets be silence.

why go for Rafale by 2018 when JXX will be in testing phase more likely we'll wait and get something sanction and insult free..F-16s/JF-17s/FC-20 are more than enough for us..I would really hope PAF invest much in JXX to get enough numbers.

 

[karan.1970]

I think from a Strategic point of view , Pakistan needs to give France a BIG real contract not this rinky dinky avionics upgrades

Look we have 192 Mirages, we need to get rid of these 192 mirages by 2018 , 2015 we sign deal with french to get 150 Rapheal with the AESA radar , and may be 50 Rapheal option for being built in Pakistan I doubt France would object

1) It shows the respect for french for sticking out with us
2) It builds on mutal trust and friendship we share
3) We get AESA
4) We get 4.5 generation fighter
5) France gets major contract for its fighters and more R&D

This is a real deal !!!

You got the right Idea.. but Pakistan does not have money to do this.. 150 rafael = more than total money in Pakistan's treasury at this time.. and the way things are going, this treasury will not be expanding anytime soon...

 

[TaimiKhan]

The economic reason being told is just a mask to cover the real reason for up holding the deal or canceling it for now.

1.6B deal did not meant the money is to b paid upfront, as such deals require money as the order is given, if we order for 50 JF-17 avionics and weapons, the deal would be half, once the first 50 ordered is paid, then comes the next payment, which is not out of our hand to pay if need arises.

The real issue is the Indian deal, as the tests are near to final stages and recently the news that 4 out of the 6 MMRCA contenders have failed the high altitude test, thus jeopardizing the chances of 4 contenders means only 2 are left and this new outcome suggests Rafale is among the ones which has passed the tests and has now a good shot at the MMRCA deal, plus the M2K upgrade deal is also in the pipeline. Don't take it as coincidence as it is not.

So the french put the deal on hold which has nearly been finalized and will see to the outcome of the Indian deal, if the French won, JF-17 avionics deal is sunk, if it doesn't, then the JF-17 deal may go through, similarly the submarine deal would go ahead too.

Do remember, the French aviation sector is in bad shape due to no successful sales of their Rafale so far, while their Naval sector is doing fine so far. Thus the emphasis would be to get the Indian deal, as it will boost their aviation sector which needs a good big order.

 

[ARCHON]

I think this news has to be read along with the french decision.


IMF board set to meet in coming weeks on Pakistan


WASHINGTON, March 31 (Reuters) - The International Monetary Fund's executive board will meet before mid-April to review Pakistan's loan after a meeting this month was postponed to enable a value-added tax law to be submitted to provincial assemblies, the IMF said on Wednesday.

BONDS

The International Monetary Fund meeting next month is set to approve the fifth tranche of a loan to Pakistan, which turned to the IMF for an emergency package of $7.6 billion in November 2008 to avert a balance of payments crisis and shore up reserves.

The IMF increased the loan to $11.3 billion in July and the central bank received the fourth tranche on Dec. 28.

The IMF said its Pakistan mission recently held discussions for its fourth review and Pakistan's program was "progressing well".

Performance criteria for end-December 2009 had been observed, the financial body said, except for the budget deficit target, which was missed by a small margin. It did not give details.

The IMF's executive board was originally scheduled to meet on March 24 to approve the fifth tranche of the loan but the meeting was then postponed to March 31 and now until April because of a delay in implementing a VAT law.

The IMF had required Pakistan to submit the VAT law to parliament by the end of December 2009. VAT on services is a provincial issue and so requires approval of the country's four provincial assemblies.

"Executive Board discussion for the fourth review is being rescheduled for the first half of April in order to allow for the submission of VAT laws to provincial assemblies, which have now been submitted. Disbursement of the funding will take place when the Board completes the review," said the IMF.

A specific date has not yet been yet for the IMF board meeting but Pakistan's finance ministry said on Monday the provincial assemblies had completed the VAT process and the IMF had been informed. (Reporting by Sue Pleming; editing by Chris Wilson) (sue.pleming@reuters.com; 202 898 8393, Reuters Messaging: sue.pleming.reuters.com@reuters.net))


IMF board set to meet in coming weeks on Pakistan | Reuters