JF-17 French Avionics Deal On Hold/Cancelled

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think we need to understand few things


A) France is going thru a major political disturbance
Mr Sarkozy while being very helpful to Pakistan his
gov is in trouble

B) France has always been there for Pakistan so we honor their
firendship

C) The deal is held up on Pakistani Side not french

Giving credit to Indian lobby is a bit too much as , we are in direct negotiations with France , India is not involved. They probbly had no fart clue of a chance - I mean France and Pakistan we go back ... way back in friendship

If French deal does not goes thru no problem we thank French friends we hope together again sometime ... as our countries are close allies

They have given us Mirages when world said no and those mirages have helped us fight off evil ...and then they also gave us Agosta to give us knowledge how to assemble Submarines ... so and not to mention ammunition for Mirages and Rose Upgrade (@ Time when world shut doors on Pakistan)

But we can easily get 100 J10B , 100 J11 fighters from China
8 billion dollars

The JF17 thunder program was always destined to get AESA radar anyway from China's research laboratories , now we can focus on other things

These planes will be new airframe
These planes will have new avionics
These planes will have new weaponry
These planes will be air superiority and give more power to Pakistan

Meanwhile as soon as the discussion with French move ahead we can also move our thunder project at that point

But we still love France as they have been good friends for Pakistan


May be , We will deal with France again when we need to retire Mirages and Get Rapheal from them 150 Rapheal fighters as per needs of our Airforce

I think the ideal deal for French Friends is we deal with Rapheal project for Pakistan Airforce in 2016, 150 4.5 generation fighters

Mean while , we get Chinese AESA radars for JF17 thunder
Get 100 J10B fighters from China (Chendegu Vipers) 2 Billion
Get 100 J11 fighters from China (Air -Air Superiority Birds) 2 billion

2 Billion invest into Avionics industry in Pakistan & China

1 Billion put it in bank and let intrest incur for downpayment on French Rapheal birds 2015


2015 , we get Rapheal , with AESA from France 150 birds ! retire the Mirage but show respect to our friends from France by inducting Rapheal for Mirages -


We fix the hole in our Airforce now with J1OB , J11 and then in 2015 get Rapheal fighters !!! Cash

 

[Ingis]

YouTube - Lady Gaga - Just Dance parody(**** france)

Arrey... tum toh gussa ho gaye.

But I'm sure France will cooperate again with Pakistan sooner or later. Also, you can always ask your other allies - China and USA - for avionics.

 

[sancho]

IMO India alone could not have pressurized France to stop the deal, i think much has to do with the fact that taiwan also uses the same equipment and US was pressurizing France not to sell to Pakistan as the equipment may turn out to be in the Chinese hands.
Another thing off topic though, does this means its over for a possible french marlin deal for PN as well?

I can understand the disappointment of Pakistani members of course, but don't blame it on India pressure only!

under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances....

..."It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side," the source said, without giving further details. "For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it."...

...France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.

These are the same things besides pressure from India that was reported before, worries about giving the techs away to China and the financial side of the deal. Keep in mind that there were reports in the J10 thread, that the procurement of J10B is probably also held because of financial problems. One can't see these things only one sided!

Personally I doubt that France would fall under Indian pressure, only if they get clear signals of good chances in MMRCA they would refuse this money. But at this stage of the competition, it would be too early to make decisions.
France also don't fall to US pressure normally, but these days they have enough trouble with other NATO countries regarding arms sales (Mistral class to Russia).
However, we can only speculate about pressure, but the weak points on Pakistani sides, if they are true, could be ruled out easier.

 

[Machoman]

But we can easily get 100 J10B , 100 J11 fighters from China

Dude quit talking about these right now. It's no joy! can we think anything else other then chinese?

 

[SekrutYakhni]

I respect China and I really appreciate their "love" for us. China has helped us a lot and we should respect that.

BUT

Why are we rolling stones?

France said no than go to China.
Germany said no than go to France.
America said no than go to China.

and the list goes on.

Made in Pakistan is what we need.

 

[Waffen SS]

I have a respect for China and I appreciate their "love" for us. China has helped us a lot and we should respect that.

BUT

Why are we rolling stones?

France said no than go to China.
Germany said no than go to France.
America said no than go to China.

and the list goes on.

Made in Pakistan is what we need.

Brother, to have MADE IN PAKISTAN, we need EDUCATION AND ECONOMY. That is my motto.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Bad news. Most probibly due to IAF Mirage-2000 upgradtion deal as well as other deals. Though this does not relate that much with Rafales.

so Jf-17 alternative will be to go with mix of south african missiles such as A and R darters and Italian avionics.

 

[Peregrine]

But we still love France as they have been good friends for Pakistan


May be , We will deal with France again when we need to retire Mirages and Get Rapheal from them 150 Rapheal fighters as per needs of our Airforce

Hi,
Dude you seriously need to wake up & smell the coffee. french are as they say in Punjabi "Pasey day puttar" you have to stop dwelling in past. If french gave us Mirages doesn't mean they will always be ready to give us anything, "In international Relations there are no permanent friends or enemies" I dont know how many times have i mentioned this quote on PDF. and i think you are the only one who is claiming that he loves French & those rust buckets Mirages

 

[Waffen SS]

Hi,
Dude you seriously need to wake up & smell the coffee. french are as they say in Punjabi "Pasey day puttar" you have to stop dwelling in past. If french gave us Mirages doesn't mean they will always be ready to give us anything, "In international Relations there are no permanent friends or enemies" I dont know how many times have i mentioned this quote on PDF. and i think you are the only one who is claiming that he loves French & those rust buckets Mirages

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being "Pasey day puttar". Every country and every INDIVIDUAL is such. Obviously France has to take care of her intersts whether we like it or not.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Brother, to have MADE IN PAKISTAN, we need EDUCATION AND ECONOMY. That is my motto.

I know.
Let me tell you something..

Don't be pessimistic about Pakistan. We have people who can make difference, people who are patriotic and people who can help financially.

All we need is a spark of light.
A spark of taking responsibility, helping others and eliminating social classes.

Pakistan was made by a great leader and Pakistan will become a great nation.


Ameen.

We just need sometime to move towards a better part.

I am very optimistic about Pakistan's future.

 

[sancho]

If india goes for rafale fighter then we can try to get
NORA III AESA radar

The PS-05/A NORA is an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar designed for integration into the JAS 39 Gripen aircraft. The NORA will also include jamming and data communication capabilities. The NORA radar system will provide improved performance over current PS-05/A installed in the Gripen aircraft.

The NORA long range radar will enable air-to-air and air-to-surface engagements while operating in low-observability mode (AESA).

The PS-05/A is a pulse-doppler radar not an AESA radar! This radar is fitted in the Gripen and indeed could be an alternative, but the problem is, if there was pressure from US they won't provide it too. The radar was developed by Marconi Electronic Systems from UK and the Swedish Ericsson and both are close to the US.

The NORA AESA was on development for Gripen NG, but Saab went for the Selsex Swashplate AESA radar, so it's not available for now.

 

[Justin Joseph]

I can understand the disappointment of Pakistani members of course, but don't blame it on India pressure only!



These are the same things besides pressure from India that was reported before, worries about giving the techs away to China and the financial side of the deal. Keep in mind that there were reports in the J10 thread, that the procurement of J10B is probably also held because of financial problems. One can't see these things only one sided!

Personally I doubt that France would fall under Indian pressure, only if they get clear signals of good chances in MMRCA they would refuse this money. But at this stage of the competition, it would be too early to make decisions.
France also don't fall to US pressure normally, but these days they have enough trouble with other NATO countries regarding arms sales (Mistral class to Russia).
However, we can only speculate about pressure, but the weak points on Pakistani sides, if they are true, could be ruled out easier.

To make them understand this you have to post so much and still majority will not agree with you.

And one just have to post a single word "India" as the reason they will agree with you.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Hi,
Dude you seriously need to wake up & smell the coffee. french are as they say in Punjabi "Pasey day puttar" you have to stop dwelling in past. If french gave us Mirages doesn't mean they will always be ready to give us anything, "In international Relations there are no permanent friends or enemies" I dont know how many times have i mentioned this quote on PDF. and i think you are the only one who is claiming that he loves French & those rust buckets Mirages

Some deals are above deals Pakistan and France have strategic cooperation
French/China are special of course China is Eternal Friends , but french have been there for us.

Never undermine the French

, I see Rapheal in Pak Airforce, Mirages (out) - Rapheals (in)
Its ideal fighter 4.5 generation fighter for our needs in 2015/2016

And we are getting Merlines, I prefer the Merlins vs German subs

Long live French- Pakistan defence cooperation it will take alot more then just simple avionics deal to break the trust we have between France and Pakistan

 

[qsaark]

To make them understand this you have to post so much and still majority will not agree with you.

And one just have to post a single word "India" as the reason they will agree with you.

Similar 'logic' is also prevalent on the other side. Level minded people do exist on both the sides hence generalization is useless.

 

[sancho]

so Jf-17 alternative will be to go with mix of south african missiles such as A and R darters and Italian avionics.

But they might have the same worries don't you think? South Africa already is angry about Chinia copying A Darter missile (at least the look) and some parts of their Rooivalk helicopter, so they for sure don't want more techs to end up in China.
Actually it is Chinas behaviour of illegally copying techs, that impacts here on Pakistan!