JF-17 Block 4

[Maxpane]

Where is block 3?

 

[volatile]

More important is time line for JF17 program

Block 3 fulfillment will be around 2022 after that block 1 needs MLU along with block 2 considering all odds it will take another 3 -5 years to go if so any chance o block 4 it will be 2025 beyond by that time our 5th Gen is ready ,I strongly reject the notion of building more than 150 planes and lets move to 5th Gen after that

 

[undercover JIX]

JF 17 will remain single engine, no matter how many blocks we produce with single upgrades and other avionics and electronics upgrades. no matter how many blocks you make, capabilities will remain same, all blocks are to improve performance in the same category. so its useless to discuss block 4 or 50.

so far we have not seen any details of project Azam or any other other platform PAF interested /working on.

lets not bring JF to Teja level by dreaming imaginary performance and changes with super natural powers, being realistic will help.

 

[YeBeWarned]

lets speculate about block3 first ..

 

[Dazzler]

CAC proposal for Block IV, from CCTV documentary

 

[TOPGUN]

PAF will not induct more than 250 of JF-17 than how comes they even think about block 4?

Exactly, tell that to mr dreamer

 

[Silicon0000]

There will be no block-4 production model as when block 3 production ends, it will be the time of 5th generations fighter. May be a future upgrades of block 1, 2, 3 would be called block 4.

 

[Dreamer.]

I simply do not understand those people suggesting that there can't be a block 4 because PAF will only have 250 planes!! Where PAF Officers are already on record saying that there will be a new block every 50 planes and upto block 5 is possible! I have already referenced interview of PAF officer in my earlier post saying this. And this was when we were still at block-1 level with only 2 jf17 squadrons!!.... and certainly PAF has followed the same path till now.

And furthermore if people only read the interview they will find that in the same interview he is stating that block-1 last aircrafts are in production, block-2 has a configuration that is mature(finalized), and block-3 now exists in conceptual/mission requirements stage!!!

This should give a clear idea as to how early PAF starts working on new blocks. Block-3 concepts and mission requirements were being drawn up even before production of block-1 was finished (was nearing completion), and as soon as block-2 configuration was finalized (no production). Kind of like the stage where we are now, isn't it?

Furthermore, the reason why work on block-4 needs to start as early as possible is because in this block we should expect some structural changes in the air frame which can take a long time to complete. For example the addition of more hard-points for weapons (from 7 to 9). In block-3 so far as I can gather from available information this will not be achieved save for a point for a pod. Kind of like when hard points were increased to 9 in F-16C from 7 in F-16A, the wings had to changed aswell. (BTW I think these remain at 7 in our older block F-16's even after upgrades, please correct if I am wrong).

Bilal (Quwa) has explained this much better than me when he talks about block-4/block-5 of JF-17 here and here. He has explained quite well why work on new blocks will take more time and why it must start early. The only difference in his thinking and mine is that his timeline for a new block is further way than mine. I think it can be and should be by 2022-2023.

I also do not agree with people stating that there shouldn't be a block-4 because of Project AZM. The two are totally different things. One is the continued enhancement and development of the PAF's stated mainstay aircraft for a long time to come i.e. the JF-17. The other is the development of a completely different and new generation plane to cater for the high-end requirement where we still have shortfalls as already stated by the chief of air staff himself. Project AZM will probably one day replace the F-16's, not the JF-17's. We should not mix the two.

 

[Dreamer.]

My own list of requirements or you can say wish-list for the block-4 of JF-17 Thunder. Once again it is based on available information regarding block-3 , so if someone has different information please feel free to correct me.

1. Addition of more hard-points taking the total to 9 (10 with a chin mounted pod). This will probably require some structural changes and perhaps a better engine, leading to point 2. As far as I know this will not be done in block-3.

2. A better engine. Either an advance version of RD-93 or WS13 if it is up to the mark.

3. An on board oxygen generation system in block-4. As there is no indication this will be there in block-3.

4. Addition of conformal fuel tanks.

5. Addition of more weapons although already quite impressive. Especially addition of a HOBS WVRAAM, if not done in block-3 time frame. Addition of RAAD ALCM if possible. Addition of other weapons to make the aircraft more SEAD/DEAD capable.

6. Addition of more two-seater variants in the air force's inventory, though this is not strictly a block related thing and could be done sooner.

7. A JF-17 squadron under the navy's control or a JF-17N so to speak. Again not necessarily a block related thing and could be done sooner.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I simply do not understand those people suggesting that there can't be a block 4 because PAF will only have 250 planes!! Where PAF Officers are already on record saying that there will be a new block every 50 planes and upto block 5 is possible! I have already referenced interview of PAF officer in my earlier post saying this. And this was when we were still at block-1 level with only 2 jf17 squadrons!!.... and certainly PAF has followed the same path till now.

And furthermore if people only read the interview they will find that in the same interview he is stating that block-1 last aircrafts are in production, block-2 has a configuration that is mature(finalized), and block-3 now exists in conceptual/mission requirements stage!!!

This should give a clear idea as to how early PAF starts working on new blocks. Block-3 concepts and mission requirements were being drawn up even before production of block-1 was finished (was nearing completion), and as soon as block-2 configuration was finalized (no production). Kind of like the stage where we are now, isn't it?

Furthermore, the reason why work on block-4 needs to start as early as possible is because in this block we should expect some structural changes in the air frame which can take a long time to complete. For example the addition of more hard-points for weapons (from 7 to 9). In block-3 so far as I can gather from available information this will not be achieved save for a point for a pod. Kind of like when hard points were increased to 9 in F-16C from 7 in F-16A, the wings had to changed aswell. (BTW I think these remain at 7 in our older block F-16's even after upgrades, please correct if I am wrong).

Bilal (Quwa) has explained this much better than me when he talks about block-4/block-5 of JF-17 here and here. He has explained quite well why work on new blocks will take more time and why it must start early. The only difference in his thinking and mine is that his timeline for a new block is further way than mine. I think it can be and should be by 2022-2023.

I also do not agree with people stating that there shouldn't be a block-4 because of Project AZM. The two are totally different things. One is the continued enhancement and development of the PAF's stated mainstay aircraft for a long time to come i.e. the JF-17. The other is the development of a completely different and new generation plane to cater for the high-end requirement where we still have shortfalls as already stated by the chief of air staff himself. Project AZM will probably one day replace the F-16's, not the JF-17's. We should not mix the two.

ALL SPECULATIONS WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHETHER PRODUCT STOP OR CONTINUE AFTER BLOCK-3 @Dreamer

My own list of requirements or you can say wish-list for the block-4 of JF-17 Thunder. Once again it is based on available information regarding block-3 , so if someone has different information please feel free to correct me.

1. Addition of more hard-points taking the total to 9 (10 with a chin mounted pod). This will probably require some structural changes and perhaps a better engine, leading to point 2. As far as I know this will not be done in block-3.

2. A better engine. Either an advance version of RD-93 or WS13 if it is up to the mark.

3. An on board oxygen generation system in block-4. As there is no indication this will be there in block-3.

4. Addition of conformal fuel tanks.

5. Addition of more weapons although already quite impressive. Especially addition of a HOBS WVRAAM, if not done in block-3 time frame. Addition of RAAD ALCM if possible. Addition of other weapons to make the aircraft more SEAD/DEAD capable.

6. Addition of more two-seater variants in the air force's inventory, though this is not strictly a block related thing and could be done sooner.

7. A JF-17 squadron under the navy's control or a JF-17N so to speak. Again not necessarily a block related thing and could be done sooner.

ALL SPECULATIONS WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT WHETHER PRODUCT STOP OR CONTINUE AFTER BLOCK-3 @Dreamer

 

[GriffinsRule]

Kind of like when hard points were increased to 9 in F-16C from 7 in F-16A, the wings had to changed aswell. (BTW I think these remain at 7 in our older block F-16's even after upgrades, please correct if I am wrong).

Just to correct you about the hard points available for F-16A/Bs. They always had 9 available, not counting the chin mount for a LDP etc. There are many pictures with the old F-16 (pre-MLU) that show different hard points in various configurations. Here is a picture of one that clearly shows all 4 under the wing, albeit one of the pylons is not carrying any ordnance.

Or here where the two pylons for AAMs are empty.

 

[princefaisal]

My own list of requirements or you can say wish-list for the block-4 of JF-17 Thunder. Once again it is based on available information regarding block-3 , so if someone has different information please feel free to correct me.

1. Addition of more hard-points taking the total to 9 (10 with a chin mounted pod). This will probably require some structural changes and perhaps a better engine, leading to point 2. As far as I know this will not be done in block-3.

2. A better engine. Either an advance version of RD-93 or WS13 if it is up to the mark.

3. An on board oxygen generation system in block-4. As there is no indication this will be there in block-3.

4. Addition of conformal fuel tanks.

5. Addition of more weapons although already quite impressive. Especially addition of a HOBS WVRAAM, if not done in block-3 time frame. Addition of RAAD ALCM if possible. Addition of other weapons to make the aircraft more SEAD/DEAD capable.

6. Addition of more two-seater variants in the air force's inventory, though this is not strictly a block related thing and could be done sooner.

7. A JF-17 squadron under the navy's control or a JF-17N so to speak. Again not necessarily a block related thing and could be done sooner.

Block 4 should have WS-10G engine with TVC and stealth coatings.

 

[LKJ86]

Block 4 should have WS-10G engine with TVC and stealth coatings.

Is WS-10 too big to JF-17?

 

[princefaisal]

Is WS-10 too big to JF-17?

JF-17 is 0.8 meter short in length than F-16 and 1.4 m than J-10. However redesigning the frame can accommodate the WS-10G engine and more hardpoints.

 

[LKJ86]

JF-17 is 0.8 meter short in length than F-16 and 1.4 m than J-10. However redesigning the frame can accommodate the WS-10G engine and more hardpoints.

What about the fuel loaders?
I think you should know the limitation of a light-sized fighter.