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JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

Just a thought, considering funds are limited, and the current plan calls for inducting 30 Block 3s and 25 J-10, the total number of F-16, J-10, and JF-17 would number somewhere around ~255.

Also, there is a desire to upgrade the current JF-17s to the Block 3 standard.

If all this is a given, has there been any consideration into transferring many of the sub-systems from the current 120+ JF-17 into Mirage airframes?, to bring the number of BVR capable aircraft up to nearly 375 or the full 20 fighter squadrons the Air Force wants to operate, all at the lowest cost. these Mirages could continue to primarily serve the strike role, but have the capability to hold their own and protect themselves. Obviously, it’s a stop-gap until a new aircraft allows them to retire, but I figure it’s a cost effective stop gap the PAF should consider.

Granted, It’s a lot of work for the engineers at Kamra all at one time, what with the Block 3 build, export customers, upgrading the current JF-17 to Block 3 standard and supporting the Air Force to operationalize the J-10.
The idea while good in principle has many issues. Firstly fitment of hardware is a complex issue and in many cases will not be allowed by the providers. Then there are issues with fitting space as the nose cone may not have enough space to take the radar for instance. You will then have to find a solution and the solution may not have the range you want out of the system. Heat dissipation may become a problem.
The major problem remains the dynamics of the fighter which are those of a 3rd generation fighter and cannot be changed . If you want to change all of that then you are looking at essentially a home grown M2K which given the airframe life is not worth the cost and time and labour to execute. So in principle an idea but in practice probably not worth the effort( in a nutshell due to reasons presented above).
 
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50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

I would have taken such speculation a bit seriously if they were talking about Block-III produced plus the upgraded airframes making it to total 50 Block-III aircrafts. But, that still doesn't makes any sense as the article is totally silent over that possibility and keeps on harping with Block-III 50ish production.
 
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I would have taken such speculation a bit seriously if they were talking about Block-III produced plus the upgraded airframes making it to total 50 Block-III aircrafts. But, that still doesn't makes any sense as the article is totally silent over that possibility and keeps on harping with Block-III 50ish production.
PAF will possibly have 11-12 platforms to show by march, and if lucky 1 squadron. However since it will still be in testing the best you might see is a flight of 4. PAF will not do a demo with Block3 just yet.50 block3s is a pipe dream and the writer probably him/herself did not know his/her writings would be interpreted this way.
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50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya
Source is Asia nikkei you can expect these sorts of misleading and wrong inputs either by design or by mistakes, but they are known for this.
I would have taken such speculation a bit seriously if they were talking about Block-III produced plus the upgraded airframes making it to total 50 Block-III aircrafts. But, that still doesn't makes any sense as the article is totally silent over that possibility and keeps on harping with Block-III 50ish production.

If this news not true, then someone is building boogeyman to buy more military hardware. Can the defense ministry / air force be asked for clarification?

PAF will possibly have 11-12 platforms to show by march, and if lucky 1 squadron. However since it will still be in testing the best you might see is a flight of 4. PAF will not do a demo with Block3 just yet.50 block3s is a pipe dream and the writer probably him/herself did not know his/her writings would be interpreted this way.
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Pls correct me if I am wrong, but 30 Block3 have been approved for production?
 
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If this news not true, then someone is building boogeyman to buy more military hardware. Can the defense ministry / air force be asked for clarification?
may be but difficult to say ....
 
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I think the author is not totally wrong, what she meant to say is that induction for 50 is starting in a month. However we all know that is will be by 2024 when all 50 blk3 will be inducted. Yes all 50. When she mentioned stealth we all are guilty of thinking 5th gen. However she is correct in mentioning SPJ capability not present in any other fighter aircraft in Pakistan. She doesn't mean to say that blk3 is a stealth fighter. But in this day and age, a modern fighter could also avoid been detected by incorporating advance jamming technology. So give her a break ... And enjoy the success of blk3
 
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Wow no pylons for the missiles. How did you manage to get the break through in technology to levitate missiles under an aircraft?
This is known as semi-recessed housing. Many fighters have employed it like F-14, Panavia Tornado ADV and F-4.
 
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If this news not true, then someone is building boogeyman to buy more military hardware.

Pretty much has been the case as you described. For example when IAF failed miserably on 26th February 2019 for attacking an imaginary terrorists HQ, PAF next day shows the capability and strike edge over IAF then Modi defends and explains the need of Rafale procurement which was already in news, court and discussed as highly bribed purchase. If one observes closely, most of Indian procurement are justified based on Pakistan Defence strength.

Can the defense ministry / air force be asked for clarification?

I don't see or find it necessary. Someone speculates or exaggerated things, is already regarded as non credible since PAF already shows production numbers along with news about first order in place for Block III.
 
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Pls correct me if I am wrong, but 30 Block3 have been approved for production?

I will try to put it simply and as the terms used.

A production approval comes when a prototype is passed all tests which means ready to production hence approved. For example, this is phase I and already passed since Block-III airframe, design, characteristic, avionics, engine etc etc Aircraft is finalized now.

The 2nd phase comes the order by any air force like in this case PAF is the customer and orders 30 Block-III aircrafts initially because the aircraft is already approved for production, so the serial production begins for PAF.
 
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50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya
You folks always give false hopes to the IAF!!! Last time they believed in you, and 02-27 happened....
 
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50? Next month? Are these plastic toys? Who writes these articles?

Also, near stealth? When did that happen? I think near stealth would be something like Silent Eagle & JF-17 is no-where close to it. Funny reading. Thanks for the laughs @atya

Hi,

They are not wrong---for a single tail aircraft---the JF17 has features that makes it hard to detect---.

And anything that gets hard to detect has some form or level of stealth in it---not the 5th gen level of stealth---but a 4th / 4.5 gen level of stealth.

ISLAMABAD -- The Pakistan Air Force expects next month to add 50 JF-17 fighter jets built jointly with China to replace old aircraft and upgrade capability against India's missile defense system.

According to Pakistani defense sources, a rollout ceremony was held in December and the new JF-17 jets will fly at the national day military parade on March 23.

JF-17 production began in the late 1980s in a $500 million China-Pakistan joint venture. More than 100 of the aircraft have been commissioned into the PAF since 2007, of which 26 were added in 2020 as part of a so-called second block. The latest 50 are the third block.

The airframes, front fuselage, wings and vertical stabilizer were built by state-owned Pakistan Aeronautical Complex. Other components were supplied by China's Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, a subsidiary of the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China. All assembly takes place in Pakistan.

The latest jets have improved "high off-boresight" capability, which means they do not have to be pointing in any specific direction to target an adversary. The aircraft can fire from whatever position, and its missiles will adjust thrust, speed and trajectory to hit targets. This greatly enhances PAF operability.

Light composite materials enable the jets to carry five beyond-visual-range missiles, a significant improvement on earlier aircraft. Data fusion technology has also been incorporated to improve communications and decision-making times.

Taimur Fahad Khan, a research associate with the Center for Strategic Perspectives at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad, said the multirole fighters will improve PAF capability against India's new S-400 air defense system.

"S-400 has been found to be largely ineffective against some of the advanced, multirole fighter jets with near stealth features," Khan told Nikkei Asia. "These jets possess capabilities that make them the best option to counter S-400."

"JF-17 block three fighters are near stealth with advanced software and radar capabilities that can be used to deceive the tracking system of S-400 missiles, among other systems," he said.

According to Khan, the new fighters can detect enemy jets at long distances and launch attacks preemptively. The liquid-cooled airborne fire control radar system improves detection of adversaries by 65%, and can target an enemy aircraft from 170 kilometers.

Many observers believe the new jets demonstrate Pakistan's growing self-reliance in weaponry.

"Pakistan Armed Forces have reasonable capability against any aggression," Tanveer Sultan Awan, chairman of Hajvairy Technologies, an aviation company, told Nikkei. "The Pakistan Air Force, in particular, is working in the direction of self-reliance, and production of the JF-17 is a demonstration of this policy," Awan said.

Apart from bolstering the PAF, the JF-17 project has export potential. "It has helped Pakistan build its own capacity for defense production and create a military-industrial complex -- something its archrival India still lacks despite large military resources," said Khan.

Chinese assistance has also enabled Pakistan to export military hardware to other countries. Myanmar and Nigeria have already procured JF-17s, and Argentina has recently expressed interest in the new generation. Argentina's ambassador to China visited China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation in Beijing in January, and reportedly discussed a possible order.

"Chinese military hardware is now in the league of hi-tech Western equipment," said Awan, himself a former officer in the PAF. "In years to come, the dependence of Pakistan on Chinese military hardware will be significantly more than on Western equipment."

Despite the benefits of Chinese assistance, Pakistan remains concerned about the range of weapon procurement options available to India.

Michael Kugelman, deputy director of the Asia program at Wilson Center, says that Islamabad will continue to look at India's acquisitions with concern -- not just because of French Dassault Rafale jets.

"India has the luxury of a diversified group of arms suppliers from Russia and Israel to the U.S. This is why Pakistan won't be prepared to rest easy anytime soon," he told Nikkei.

Kugelman said that while the jets are important, and serve a major need for Pakistan, Islamabad is still not at the point where it views China as a replacement to the U.S. as a security provider.

"It would be wrong to assume that Pakistan is prepared to shut the door on the U.S. simply because it is getting these jets and other important defense products from China," he said. "If Pakistan were presented with an opportunity to acquire U.S. arms, it certainly wouldn't dismiss it."

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Pakistan-to-boost-air-strike-power-with-50-enhanced-fighter-jets

What is Mr. Amir's handle on PDF?
 
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Hi,

They are not wrong---for a single tail aircraft---the JF17 has features that makes it hard to detect---.

And anything that gets hard to detect has some form or level of stealth in it---not the 5th gen level of stealth---but a 4th / 4.5 gen level of stealth.



What is Mr. Amir's handle on PDF?
Valid point. However, JF-17 is not likely to fly in a neat configuration. I referred to Silent Eagle for a reason.
 
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