JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[ziaulislam]

Our focus should shift a bit.

I don't think a favourable kill ratio ever favoured Pakistan from a strategic standpoint. So, even if the PAF gets a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio in its favour against the IAF, Pakistan can run into a stalemate or loss in a war.

Pakistan needs to think about how it can deprecate India's air and air defence capabilities. In this sense, the Pakistani military needs to develop a strong understanding of how to use drones, guided land-based rockets, loitering munitions, etc. It should also look at using the Ra'ad-series as a basis for decoys and area-wide SOW applications (e.g., deploy loitering munitions over an area).

There was a retired Pak Army general a short while ago who said we should build a fleet of 300 JF-17s. Sounds nuts, but I think that's the right line of thought. But I'd qualify it by adding that we need to get the JF-17 to deploy a more diverse line-up of air-to-surface munitions, e.g., ALCMs, loitering munitions, area-wide attack SOWs, etc. Moreover, a 300-strong fleet could also be a way to have enough jets to use for joint air-and-land operations against enemy ADGE, for example.

Agree
Mass build standaradized weapons

 

[Thorough Pro]

IAF's moral and image in the world would have been tarnished.

Really, how so? If PAF had shot down 12 IAF aircraft, would they not be modernizing at the same or even faster scale? Help me understand please.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Our focus should shift a bit.

I don't think a favourable kill ratio ever favoured Pakistan from a strategic standpoint. So, even if the PAF gets a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio in its favour against the IAF, Pakistan can run into a stalemate or loss in a war.

Pakistan needs to think about how it can deprecate India's air and air defence capabilities. In this sense, the Pakistani military needs to develop a strong understanding of how to use drones, guided land-based rockets, loitering munitions, etc. It should also look at using the Ra'ad-series as a basis for decoys and area-wide SOW applications (e.g., deploy loitering munitions over an area).

There was a retired Pak Army general a short while ago who said we should build a fleet of 300 JF-17s. Sounds nuts, but I think that's the right line of thought. But I'd qualify it by adding that we need to get the JF-17 to deploy a more diverse line-up of air-to-surface munitions, e.g., ALCMs, loitering munitions, area-wide attack SOWs, etc. Moreover, a 300-strong fleet could also be a way to have enough jets to use for joint air-and-land operations against enemy ADGE, for example.

Exactly what we need to focus on. Smart munitions in all 3 services to offset any numerical disadvantage we will have in the number of platforms. Right now, the Thunder can carry two REK-82. Its a fine weapon against large fixed targets, however, even crippling a target or taking away its ability to communicate or operate is more than enough in a fast moving war. Thus the flexibility offered by say smaller bombs such as the GBU-39 that offer a form factor allowing them to be carried on MERs at two or four on the same pylons. Similarly, for the UAVs there are similar options such as GBU-69s. Similar to guided missiles however with longer range and quieter as well, not to mention easier to develop inhouse.

Ra'ad is a strategic weapon ... its a large cruise missile that will be used against static targets. We also however need smaller munitions to be used against Indian army as well as disrupting their logistics and that will require a large number of smaller standoff weapons. Incorporating those with AI and machine learning algorithms will be a huge boon for Pakistan's offensive and defensive strategy. I am a huge proponent of also building more JF-17 instead of buying J-10 or any other new aircraft not already in service with the PAF. Instead use those billions into projects in AZM and new programs for weapons for aircraft you already have in service.

Heck, even F-16s can technically be adapted to carry smart munitions that don't need to be guided by the aircraft itself but are self-sufficient in loitering and engaging targets of opportunity. It will also definitely give the Mirages another lease on life as we all are aware they will be in service with us for another decade at least.

 

[Riz]

details details details please...

Chinese one

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

As for EW, AI, 5th gen avionics (an alpha version with 20 million lines of codes is already ready), radars, smart munitions, A2A missiles, laser pods, composites, wingman drones etc., I am pretty sure the Pak general staffs is keeping a close eye on the developments in Turkey....

 

[GumNaam]

Chinese one

WS10 on the blk3?

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Brace yourself everyone.....

Sanu nehr walay pul te bula ke ...

 

[arjunk]

Not possible due to two main reasons:

1- Loss of Indian Air Superiority. Shooting down 12-planes would have meant a lot of confusion and disorganization within IAF, giving CLEAR ADVANTAGE TO PAF. PAF would have decimated Indian Army and navy.
2- Nukes specially tactical nukes.

1- Even if we launched a successful surprise 3 prong offensive, I have a feeling Uncle Sam will stop it like with Kargil, where a lot of the casualties we took were Indians shooting our backs as we unilaterally withdrew.
2- Yes we will decimate them. But it might lead to the end of the subcontinent. Unless they chicken out and surrender.

 

[Deino]

Brace yourself everyone.....

Honestly, I'm well prepared for any surprise, the bottle of Champagne is already cold, the glasses prepared for anything ... but I'm prepared for this whatever like so many of us since July/August last year and again in September to December and now again this "fuss" about some major unveiling soon, things to happen soon ... I slowly get the feeling is the same soon as Indians always claim.

J-10Cs coming to Pakistan Air Force and a surprise in Block-3s as well.

Again ... IMO there is TOO much noise and hype around. Images of J-10C at CAC are immediately rated as proof for "they are for Pakistan", images of J-16s flying over China but found at a random Pakistani site are immediately rated as a hint for "they will come to Pakistan".

I know I'm rated the typical ugly, arrogant German, the one who ruins every party, who must always know the source and cannot simply hope and have faith in such reports. But hey, YES I cannot, I admit this ... and so far it was not the worst way to go to be cautious and sceptical in regard to any such bombastic claims.

Best and take care.

 

[arjunk]

I still have blue balls from the 9 C-130s and F-16Vs we were supposed to have gotten a few months ago.

Honestly, I'm well prepared for any surprise, the bottle of Champagne is already cold, the glasses prepared for anything ... but I'm prepared for this whatever like so many of us since July/August last year and again in September to December and now again this "fuss" about some major unveiling soon, things to happen soon ... I slowly get the feeling is the same soon as Indians always claim.



Again ... IMO there is TOO much noise and hype around. Images of J-10C at CAC are immediately rated as proof for "they are for Pakistan", images of J-16s flying over China but found at a random Pakistani site are immediately rated as a hint for "they will come to Pakistan".

I know I'm rated the typical ugly, arrogant German, the one who ruins every party, who must always know the source and cannot simply hope and have faith in such reports. But hey, YES I cannot, I admit this ... and so far it was not the worst way to go to be cautious and sceptical in regard to any such bombastic claims.

Best and take care.

 

[Basel]

Definitely should make our own equivalent to mald, but the spear ew is much smaller and good for tactical options, mald is an ALCM, almost to be used like a dedicated jammer aircraft

Both are needed as per threat perception.

 

[The Eagle]

To all my friends, asking for details.... it is all in greater good. Pray. Let's hope for the best and say that, we are coming with a shock & awe much greater than before with blessing of ALLAH. keep calm and have faith my friends. Since, this is the game of patience & trust, I will urge that many of us have to learn the same. Whatever the shocker may come, it will be like some anonymous will share it. I have no reason or intention to do anything for attention. ALHAMDULILLAH had enough on my chest & shoulders already which is like being blessed more than I ever thought.

For the time being, let's say it is for me only. However, teeth to get more sharpened and claws getting longer & stronger. Bless the guys, busy day & night for the security of the nation.

@Trailer23 naughty you are....

@Deino we are way different than those Indian style claims. I mean like Black & White. I know that you are ready for lot of things so we will all celebrate soon.

 

[Deino]

...

@Deino we are way different than those Indian style claims. I mean like Black & White. I know that you are ready for lot of things so we will all celebrate soon.

So you think I shall prepare a second bottle of Champagne?

 

[AsifIjaz]

If my hunch as well as the few tidbits i got are correct then all I can say is alhamdullilah.
I am very careful with words here so please do not blame me later if this turns out to be hoax.

What I am not sure and I want to ask you is..
The date expexted is 27th Feb or as suggested they are going for a near by one so not to raise too many eyebrows.. ??

 

[hussain0216]

To all my friends, asking for details.... it is all in greater good. Pray. Let's hope for the best and say that, we are coming with a shock & awe much greater than before with blessing of ALLAH. keep calm and have faith my friends. Since, this is the game of patience & trust, I will urge that many of us have to learn the same. Whatever the shocker may come, it will be like some anonymous will share it. I have no reason or intention to do anything for attention. ALHAMDULILLAH had enough on my chest & shoulders already which is like being blessed more than I ever thought.

For the time being, let's say it is for me only. However, teeth to get more sharpened and claws getting longer & stronger. Bless the guys, busy day & night for the security of the nation.

@Trailer23 naughty you are....

@Deino we are way different than those Indian style claims. I mean like Black & White. I know that you are ready for lot of things so we will all celebrate soon.

The problem with this post is that in my head Pakistan has obtained UFOs and anything less is going to be a disappointment now