JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[araz]

It would require a redesign perhaps, possibly a new design, but it maybe worth a new design, considering the possibilities of a small fighter with that much thrust. A design like the FS2020 by SAAB. It could be an effective replacement for the JF-17, because with the Block 3 design we are reaching the limit of its design. The SAAB design could be a cost effective and highly capable replacement, because the original JF-17 has already gone through an overhaul, and may only have another 15-20 years left in the air frame. Now is the time to think of a workhorse replacement; with the technology developed a good way to share technology developed for Project AZM.

Actually, The SAAB design envisions a 170 kn engine, so we may not need to use the WS-19.

so while we are going for a twin WS-15 class design with Project AZM, we might as well go with a Single engine WS-15 design as a backbone fighter. It would be a mistake to build to small a fighter if our doctrine evolves to be more offensive.

Swedish Stealth fighter concept FS 2020

Swedish Stealth fighter concept FS 2020

defence.pk

Bhai.
We are a bhuki nangi nation. We do not have the capability to design a newer plane for the very simple reason.
A. Cost could well run into billions depending on the complexity of design.
B. Time factor. If we run a programme for the next decade what will you have that you cannot get with the J10?
C. Average work up period for an air plane could be any where between 10 to 15 years. We will end up having a redesigned JFT which already serves all its purposes at a cost of 2billion plus build up cost per unit.
D. You do not have the ancillary industries to build the alloys, etc locally. Setting up those industries will set you back 10s of billions of dollars thqt is if anyone will provide you with them in the first place.
Stick to what you have for the moment. You need to learn to walk before you fly. Jumping the gun leads to nasty accidents and can be costly.
A

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Today, we are limited by the technologies others provide us. I want to see a world in which PAF pilots strategize and come up with innovative new solutions not found anywhere else, and PAC/whatever then delivers this new tech. I want to see this cycle started and maintained.

now that will be something, a sight to behold.
where we won't be held back due to finances and international relations but only limited by our imagination. premiseis that we will have teams of AAA engineers at the same level as say Dessault, skunk works or Lock head Martin etc.

 

[JamD]

now that will be something, a sight to behold.
where we won't be held back due to finances and international relations but only limited by our imagination. premiseis that we will have teams of AAA engineers at the same level as say Dessault, skunk works or Lock head Martin etc.

As cheesy as it sounds but the two step process to achieve is simple to lay out and hard to implement: cultivate and attract the right human resource, and give them the resources and freedom to act. The achievement of these things require well thought out policy work. Of course you know this but this is one of the few things that warrants repetition ad nauseam.

Apologies for off topic post.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

As cheesy as it sounds but the two step process to achieve is simple to lay out and hard to implement: cultivate and attract the right human resource, and give them the resources and freedom to act. The achievement of these things require well thought out policy work. Of course you know this but this is one of the few things that warrants repetition ad nauseam.

Apologies for off topic post.

Yep, plus rigorous practical implementation with checks and balances to ensure things get done correctly. It's a process that requires people along the chain to ask a lot of questions and get lots of answers. This isn't something Pakistani institutions are fully used to except for a few situations.

 

[FuturePAF]

Bhai.
We are a bhuki nangi nation. We do not have the capability to design a newer plane for the very simple reason.
A. Cost could well run into billions depending on the complexity of design.
B. Time factor. If we run a programme for the next decade what will you have that you cannot get with the J10?
C. Average work up period for an air plane could be any where between 10 to 15 years. We will end up having a redesigned JFT which already serves all its purposes at a cost of 2billion plus build up cost per unit.
D. You do not have the ancillary industries to build the alloys, etc locally. Setting up those industries will set you back 10s of billions of dollars thqt is if anyone will provide you with them in the first place.
Stick to what you have for the moment. You need to learn to walk before you fly. Jumping the gun leads to nasty accidents and can be costly.
A

What is project AZM, if not the process of designing a new plane.

The FS 2020 design is nearly a single engine version of Project AZM. Sure, if finances are an issue, I agree, we should stay within our means and redesign the JF-17 to just accommodate the new engine if/when it becomes available.

FS2020 is a stealthier design, with internal weapons bays and a higher TWR. That’s about it over the capabilities of the J-10. If our doctrine just requires a few high end stealth fighters in the form of project AZM, then sure.

In many air forces; Many design phases for the next generation fighter begin when the current generation is just entering service.

Many years ago, a then young PhD in Pakistan told me he has personally seen the details of a certain US missile system. It employs a line camera - a linear placement of sensors - and literally builds an entire image by scanning the scene in front of it line by line.

PAC is slated to start producing the KLJ-7A AESA radar locally. They can certainly place a line of T/R elements (not module) or a single T/R module or a few modules. Let us not forget that missile radar guidance needs to kick in at the very end when the missile is quite close to the target so this radar doesn't need to be very powerful.

Something like this but for an A2A missile

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As cheesy as it sounds but the two step process to achieve is simple to lay out and hard to implement: cultivate and attract the right human resource, and give them the resources and freedom to act. The achievement of these things require well thought out policy work. Of course you know this but this is one of the few things that warrants repetition ad nauseam.

Apologies for off topic post.

nothing was off topic in your post. the premise of my post was that we have already everyone in place (in a parallel universe) in the exact manner you narrated as a precondition.

Yep, plus rigorous practical implementation with checks and balances to ensure things get done correctly. It's a process that requires people along the chain to ask a lot of questions and get lots of answers. This isn't something Pakistani institutions are fully used to except for a few situations.

whats more, such people need to survive the tough world of Pakistani society without having to look over the shoulder and worrying about both the lynch mob and insecure teachers and make it successfully into the organisations where their extraordinary skills sets and competence is more important than how they offer their prayers and what are their views over social media.

 

[Trango Towers]

Bhai.
We are a bhuki nangi nation. We do not have the capability to design a newer plane for the very simple reason.
A. Cost could well run into billions depending on the complexity of design.
B. Time factor. If we run a programme for the next decade what will you have that you cannot get with the J10?
C. Average work up period for an air plane could be any where between 10 to 15 years. We will end up having a redesigned JFT which already serves all its purposes at a cost of 2billion plus build up cost per unit.
D. You do not have the ancillary industries to build the alloys, etc locally. Setting up those industries will set you back 10s of billions of dollars thqt is if anyone will provide you with them in the first place.
Stick to what you have for the moment. You need to learn to walk before you fly. Jumping the gun leads to nasty accidents and can be costly.
A

Wrong wrong wrong

Pakistan is a rich country that's badly mismanaged.

Just look at the wages of a university professor and you will be shocked. Private sector people earn vast sums. Senior government officials earn stupid money through theft.

Tax collection has to improve.

Regarding design. We are not Indians that we will re-invent a square wheel. There are people who have been designing for years and just because you are not aware doesn't mean they don't exist.

Pakistanis generally are a negative lot and mostly still think that the best car is a Toyota corolla. So please spare us with the negative crap. People said this about the nuclear program. The missile program. The jf17 the Al khalid the drones, subs, ships. Etc etc etc

 

[JawadKKhan]

Pakistan is a rich country that's badly mismanaged.

Badly mismanaged to a point where situation of GDP, reserves, debts all point to being a poor country is a poor country. We need to manage it well and then we can call it "rich" when it eventually is rich.. until then we got to face reality.

 

[Trango Towers]

Badly mismanaged to a point where situation of GDP, reserves, debts all point to being a poor country is a poor country. We need to manage it well and then we can call it "rich" when it eventually is rich.. until then we got to face reality.

OK bhai let's look at you and your family?

1. Are you in Pakistan?
2. Do u pay proper taxes and not fiddle the system
3. Does your father and family member all pay their due taxes...


If not why not. Can you fix your self and your father. See not easy is it. Pointing fingers is easy. Doing is very hard

 

[JawadKKhan]

OK bhai let's look at you and your family?

1. Are you in Pakistan?
2. Do u pay proper taxes and not fiddle the system
3. Does your father and family member all pay their due taxes...


If not why not. Can you fix your self and your father. See not easy is it. Pointing fingers is easy. Doing is very hard

Bro, My father passed away 11 years ago. He was in pioneer lot of scientists of Pak. he retired as DG in one of SPD's departments in yr 2002. I lived more then 30 years in Pakistan, used to pay ALL the taxes. For last 1 decade i am in UAE. You know the remittances also help Pak. Plus i prefer employing Pakistanis either remotely Or project basis. I hope this answer your very personal questions.

I wonder why telling reality is hard to understand that people start asking personal questions. Pakistan is not rich, its not pointing fingers. Its telling whats truth. Everyone has to play their part. More importantly the governments has to do. The forever on loss organisations needs to be privatized like railways/pia etc. As a nation we will only progress if we start realizing our problems. If we keep thinking ourselves as "rich" & advanced and busy in self praise then we are done.

 

[Trango Towers]

Bro, My father passed away 11 years ago. He was in pioneer lot of scientists of Pak. he retired as DG in one of SPD's departments in yr 2002. I lived more then 30 years in Pakistan, used to pay ALL the taxes. For last 1 decade i am in UAE. You know the remittances also help Pak. Plus i prefer employing Pakistanis either remotely Or project basis. I hope this answer your very personal questions.

May Allah bless your father and give him the highest place in janat. I too have lost both my parents but this is the will of Allah and he knows best.
I am so pleased tk hear that you are in the UAE and able to assist fellow Pakistanis. The fact that you and your father paid taxes is amazing. The fact you father was a scientist and yiu are working in the UAE shows he wasn't a thief. I know people working close the dr A Q KHAN and even there there was huge amounts of money that used to go for a walk. It's sad but we are not generally honest people. You and your father are the exception here

 

[RAMPAGE]

Bhai.
We are a bhuki nangi nation. We do not have the capability to design a newer plane for the very simple reason.
A. Cost could well run into billions depending on the complexity of design.
B. Time factor. If we run a programme for the next decade what will you have that you cannot get with the J10?
C. Average work up period for an air plane could be any where between 10 to 15 years. We will end up having a redesigned JFT which already serves all its purposes at a cost of 2billion plus build up cost per unit.
D. You do not have the ancillary industries to build the alloys, etc locally. Setting up those industries will set you back 10s of billions of dollars thqt is if anyone will provide you with them in the first place.
Stick to what you have for the moment. You need to learn to walk before you fly. Jumping the gun leads to nasty accidents and can be costly.
A

The rest of your argument aside, not developing these ancillary industries is costing us tens of billions of dollars - annually. Developing them is much is cheaper.

 

[Zarvan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478361141596377092

 

[devil302]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478361141596377092

View attachment 805773

Yes they are block 3's look their hud's.

 

[Fioril]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1478361141596377092

View attachment 805773

Looks original , Lights at landing gear confirms block 3 . Though the serial number is starting from 3P-10 from left and going in reverse sequence to right , so most likely 3P-04 to 3P-10 inducted. 3P-01-- 3P-03 prototypes ???