JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Trango Towers]

How I see it:

JF-17-200
J-10C- 72
AZM- 100
Maybe 36 J-16?

Loool where did u get 36 j16, 72 j10c and 100 azm?

This is a crazy place

 

[CriticalThought]

So, an epoxy-based composite cured in an oven is better than the one cured in an autoclave

Instead of spoon-feeding, I am going to adopt a questioning approach. So answer these questions:

1. What is the advantage of an autoclave over an oven?
2. Is autoclave the only stage in the process, or some other stage could involve the use of an oven?

 

[Thorough Pro]

Only because big mouth trump pissed his mid eastern clients off

Hi,

A commercial flop years ago---AKA the Rafale---no one wanted to touch it with a 10 foot pole--is the best seller nowadays.

 

[denel]

Only because big mouth trump pissed his mid eastern clients off

Guys... let us keep discussion for Rafale to countering it with jf-17blk3 vs trying to get geopolitics.

Especially with the last exercise in Turkey, I am very sure this bird was thoroughly evaluated for weaknesses.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Instead of spoon-feeding, I am going to adopt a questioning approach. So answer these questions:

1. What is the advantage of an autoclave over an oven?
2. Is autoclave the only stage in the process, or some other stage could involve the use of an oven?

Just saw this. I am not going to spoon feed you. One word: H2O, Mr. Instant Internet Expert.

 

[denel]

Just saw this. I am not going to spoon feed you. One word: H2O, Mr. Instant Internet Expert.

It is sad to see younger generation not take to books. I cannot explain why this has become an instant generation.

An analogy that my esteemed teacher told us in high school physics...
Student goes to his Master and asks. how long will it take me to be at your level?. Master replies - 15 years.
Student asks now - Master but I want to learn faster, how long will it be. Master replies - 30 years.

Noone wants to start from core basics of material physics and wants to jump into alloy composition.

Young men... learn to read and educate - if you love an area of interest, take it to heart and go to school or attend even a course in it. Just my suggestion as well as what @Chak Bamu is noting.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

How I see it:



JF-17-200

J-10C- 72

AZM- 100

Maybe 36 J-16?

Might as well get TOT for WS-10 and make AZM with that power plant... As a thrust vectoring version already exists.. it would make a sweet addition to AZM.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

one of the best shapes in Cowrolla

Young men... learn to read and educate - if you love an area of interest, take it to heart and go to school or attend even a course in it. Just my suggestion as well as what @Chak Bamu is noting.

Where is the time???

The modern age has given many things to the common folks but time ....

 

[Trango Towers]

Where is the time???

The modern age has given many things to the common folks but time ....

True time is a commodity that's running short for each of us daily

 

[Chak Bamu]

Unbelievable how much dung people have inside their heads. So @denel since you are such a master, please tell us about the mechanics of materials as it applies to composites. How does the stress tensor differ between a metal and a composite material? Let us see how much of a master you really are. I can't believe your heads are stuck so deep up your arses, you didn't stop to think for one moment the other person can call out your bullshit in a manner that will leave you composed. I am now going to reveal the depths of your ignorance to the whole world.

This is my last post addressing you because you shall henceforth be on my ignore list.

I have interacted with you multiple times & each time I have been amazed at the level of stubbornness & bickering displayed by you. From failure to understand that surface irregularities on both sides of a wing will have an asymmetrical effect, to trying to prove that JF-17 has a better TWR than J-10, to now this insistence that ovens are more relevant than autoclaves, you have marked yourself in my eye as a total waste of time, interaction-wise.

1. You have often called out my having been a moderator as something that was a wrong perpetrated on this forum. Perhaps it was. But what you do not understand is that being a moderator is not something you apply for here & get interviewed & then get selected. Post quality (knowledge, writing skill, EQ, relevance to topics of discussion) contributes towards selection. I was made a moderator without my consultation & indeed it was an honor. Once on the moderator panel, I was privy to discussions related to forum management & that is how I understood the process. So in essence, your critique of my having been a moderator ought to be directed at forum owner & administrators, not me.

2. My big peeve has always been lack of civility. I do not care who I call out when I see it. Our present exchange is precisely because I called someone out for it. You made it your fight.


3. You might have been a title holder ages ago, if only you were civil & not act like a troll wielding a cudgel. Your uncommon ferocity to settle scores with other posters is bewildering to most. No one here is responsible for your mommy-daddy issues & therefore nobody ought to suffer for it. You try to create excuses to bash others to make yourself feel better. Your demons should not be other people's problems but you make them so due to a non-existent EQ & lack of emotional balance.

4. Discussions of this forum have little bearing on decision-making by PAF. You seem to labor under that impression that you can somehow will PAF to drop J-10 & pour resources into JF-17 & AZM merely by exhibiting deadly earnestness in your posts. You may feel that your work is incredibly important here, but in reality no one actually cares. You could perhaps improve your circumstances & your mood by focusing on your day job & consequently feel more secure & exhibit a bit of pleasantness instead of cantankerous attitude here.

5. Why is it important to heat epoxy composites in a vacuum? The key is chemistry - byproduct of epoxy curing is H2O & it must be extracted in order to drive the reaction so that epoxy gains maximum strength. Heat & vacuum are both important. If H2O as a by product is not actively extracted to an acceptable extent, epoxy being the matrix of the composite shall not attain required stiffness. Ovens will speed up the reaction but will not impart the maximum strength to the matrix material due to insufficient cross-linking during polymerization. Extraction of water as a by-product is done by employing vacuum in an autoclave. Look, some may consider insufficient extent of polymerization acceptable - e.g. home-built experimental aircraft are often made with glass fiber & epoxy using a hand lay-up process. Ever wonder why such aircraft are often painted white? It is done to avoid heating in the sun which will result in drooping of the wings due to insufficient epoxy matrix strength - because no autoclave was used. Professionally made composite material aircraft do not have this problem & may be painted dark colors that improve their visibility & give them a longer life. I can not imagine employing anything but the best for fighter aircraft, & hence my incredulity at even an indirect suggestion that JF-17 uses non-autoclaved composites.

6. You may have the urge to come at me with something or the other. But sorry, too late. Your uncivil attitude & insistence on being ever-rude does not leave me with an option to allow you to have a civil conversation with me.

Best of luck young man. I hope you pause & reflect. I hope you become a better version of yourself. It might be difficult but my prayers are with you.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Teja samosas were made in ovens. As we all know Tejas are superior to the NGAD. Thus, ovens = high performance composites.


Missiles, Nukes were a success because the existence of Pakistan depended on them. In fact, many of our early missile designs are repainted Chinese or North Korean ones. Later ones were modified and redesigned, and some such as Ababeel are very unique (though the Chinese are said to have shared MIRV technology with us).

We are yet to see any successful and widespread use of our drones. We are still importing Chinese ones.

JF-17 and Al-Khalid are behind schedule. Again, JF-17 was a dire need of the PAF.

Pakistanis are smart enough to get stuff done. However, they are stupid enough to not bother doing it unless their very survival depends on it. Just look at all the easy opportunities we have lost and all the tough times we have survived.

I don't know what is your source of information, but here about Tejas composites autoclaves,

CSIR-NAL’s collaboration with LCA program started from technology demonstrator (2 aircrafts) to prototype development (5 aircrafts) to limited series production (8 aircrafts) and Initial Operational Capability (IOC) standard production aircrafts (SP1 to SP20). The initial IOC order of 20 sets is nearing completion. The challenges were to develop the co-cured complex components indigenously during the time of technology denials and sanctions from other countries. Moreover, the autoclaves necessary for processing composite materials were also developed indigenously by CSIR-NAL. This homegrown technology developed by CSIR-NAL was used in realizing primary air-frame components of LCA like Fin, Rudder, Wing Spars and Fairings, Centre Fuselage and Main Landing Gear components.

CSIR laboratory to manufacture critical composite air-frame components for LCA Tejas

CSIR-National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL) has received an order of more than Rs 100cr for deli

pib.gov.in

 

[Irfan Baloch]

This is my last post addressing you because you shall henceforth be on my ignore list.

I have interacted with you multiple times & each time I have been amazed at the level of stubbornness & bickering displayed by you. From failure to understand that surface irregularities on both sides of a wing will have an asymmetrical effect, to trying to prove that JF-17 has a better TWR than J-10, to now this insistence that ovens are more relevant than autoclaves, you have marked yourself in my eye as a total waste of time, interaction-wise.

1. You have often called out my having been a moderator as something that was a wrong perpetrated on this forum. Perhaps it was. But what you do not understand is that being a moderator is not something you apply for here & get interviewed & then get selected. Post quality (knowledge, writing skill, EQ, relevance to topics of discussion) contributes towards selection. I was made a moderator without my consultation & indeed it was an honor. Once on the moderator panel, I was privy to discussions related to forum management & that is how I understood the process. So in essence, your critique of my having been a moderator ought to be directed at forum owner & administrators, not me.

2. My big peeve has always been lack of civility. I do not care who I call out when I see it. Our present exchange is precisely because I called someone out for it. You made it your fight.


3. You might have been a title holder ages ago, if only you were civil & not act like a troll wielding a cudgel. Your uncommon ferocity to settle scores with other posters is bewildering to most. No one here is responsible for your mommy-daddy issues & therefore nobody ought to suffer for it. You try to create excuses to bash others to make yourself feel better. Your demons should not be other people's problems but you make them so due to a non-existent EQ & lack of emotional balance.

4. Discussions of this forum have little bearing on decision-making by PAF. You seem to labor under that impression that you can somehow will PAF to drop J-10 & pour resources into JF-17 & AZM merely by exhibiting deadly earnestness in your posts. You may feel that your work is incredibly important here, but in reality no one actually cares. You could perhaps improve your circumstances & your mood by focusing on your day job & consequently feel more secure & exhibit a bit of pleasantness instead of cantankerous attitude here.

5. Why is it important to heat epoxy composites in a vacuum? The key is chemistry - byproduct of epoxy curing is H2O & it must be extracted in order to drive the reaction so that epoxy gains maximum strength. Heat & vacuum are both important. If H2O as a by product is not actively extracted to an acceptable extent, epoxy being the matrix of the composite shall not attain required stiffness. Ovens will speed up the reaction but will not impart the maximum strength to the matrix material due to insufficient cross-linking during polymerization. Extraction of water as a by-product is done by employing vacuum in an autoclave. Look, some may consider insufficient extent of polymerization acceptable - e.g. home-built experimental aircraft are often made with glass fiber & epoxy using a hand lay-up process. Ever wonder why such aircraft are often painted white? It is done to avoid heating in the sun which will result in drooping of the wings due to insufficient epoxy matrix strength - because no autoclave was used. Professionally made composite material aircraft do not have this problem & may be painted dark colors that improve their visibility & give them a longer life. I can not imagine employing anything but the best for fighter aircraft, & hence my incredulity at even an indirect suggestion that JF-17 uses non-autoclaved composites.

6. You may have the urge to come at me with something or the other. But sorry, too late. Your uncivil attitude & insistence on being ever-rude does not leave me with an option to allow you to have a civil conversation with me.

Best of luck young man. I hope you pause & reflect. I hope you become a better version of yourself. It might be difficult but my prayers are with you.

take it easy brother.

thanks for keeping the posts respectful and meaningful to discussion.

our forum ranks don't matter. only our good content matters.

no one is obliged to accept our point of view and this must never be a point of a fight

this is my request to all readers.

 

[MIRauf]

Might as well get TOT for WS-10 and make AZM with that power plant... As a thrust vectoring version already exists.. it would make a sweet addition to AZM.

ToT to build an Fighter Jet Engine ? not even Iron Brother will give you that. Now for a local manufacturing ( key components exported from the Main Land ) can be do able, still likely be hard sell.

 

[syed_yusuf]

ToT to build an Fighter Jet Engine ? not even Iron Brother will give you that. Now for a local manufacturing ( key components exported from the Main Land ) can be do able, still likely be hard sell.

Pakistan should start in investing in engine technology, be it jet engine or internal combustion or electric motor driven. Pakistan needs to start investing now, to have a decent product 10-15 years from now depending on what it is.. for example a jet engine will take appx 20 years of constant development to mature. This brings to a point as to where does Pakistan procure engines for it's cruise and ballistic missiles ???

 

[Goritoes]

Why are people getting personal in such a nice informative thread ? relax and chill, listen to everyone with respect, share your opinion and disagreements with respect as well, is it too hard to do ? Its internet and no one knows and what the other person behind the computer is, and yet people are mad crazy about proving that they know it all and rest are idiots. Relax and let this thread for people like us who actually come here to learn something here and there about Fighter jets and its production process.

Before someone jump on me over my qualification, I am here to read not post.