JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[Tempest II]

Why do we still have a removable refueling probe rather a retractable one it makes no sense.

Simplicity. Light weight. Reliable.

 

[Great Janjua]

Simplicity. Light weight. Reliable.

Well it hinders reaction time as it takes good amount of time to install also to remove,And since technology has improved retractable IFR probes are much better nowaydays in relation to Cost,Simplicity And reliability.But i guess PAF engineering solutions division is to busy tossing coins about to notice.

Space for it to retract ?

You make space for it

 

[The Raven]

Your concern about location of fuel storage


First I want to make clear that everything I am stating in my post is based on facts available on net whether these are in the form of visual or verbal.

Fact 1. PAC engineer says behind the green shaded area aircraft fuel is stored. Same narrative was repeated twice by different engineers of PAC on different occasions.

Fact 2. Available pics.

Fact 3. IFR location in both A and B variants.

These three facts motivated me to infer safely that fuel storage cavities do exist behind the green shaded area on the outer side of the cockpit.

Usually aircraft fuel is being stored in the wing and fuselage fuel storage compartments. But now, some modern designs use space available in the horizontal and vertical stabilisers for fuel storage. Use of space available in the outer sides of the cockpit is a unique design and has some serious challenges. One of the design problem which a designer will face while designing such arrangement is to 100% elimination of leakage of fuel and its vapour inside and outside the cockpit.

Whatever I was stating in my post were few possible design solutions.

Did the PAC engineer say "ALL green shaded area are for fuel storage"? Did the PAC engineer specifically mention the front fuselage around the cockpit?

IFR location is indicative of IFR plumbing and probe, nothing else. Just because it has IFR located there, does not mean it can store fuel there as well.

I'll put this as bluntly as I can. Your so called "inference" could not be more wrong. Correlation is not the same thing as causation. No aircraft designer in their right mind would store fuel around the cockpit, for a number of engineering reasons that seems completely lost to some people here. Like I said before, I would love to see the look on the faces of the Chinese engineers if the PAF/PAC asked them to install fuel cells around the cockpit. Have you not wondered why there has been no modern aircraft in the world with fuel stored around the cockpit? But no, you believe the Chinese and PAF/PAC have somehow come up with a revolutionary method to store fuel around the cockpit, and somehow negated the very obvious numerous problems with this daft idea.

 

[KaiserX]

Why not test out an enlarged twin engine concept of the thunder? similar to the F16XL? I am sure PAC has the experience necessary... even a few dozen of such jets could be very useful for the navy and for long range strike missions. Would be better than procuring off the shelf jets.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

Well it hinders reaction time and since technology has improved retractable IFR probes are much better nowaydays in relation to Cost,Simplicity And reliability.But i guess PAF engineering solutions division is to busy tossing coins about to notice.

You make space for it

Hand on heart say that it's the best use of the minimum space the JF-17 already has.... If there is space available for a Retractable Probe then maybe we could use it for internally installed irst...

Why not test out an enlarged twin engine concept of the thunder? similar to the F16XL? I am sure PAC has the experience necessary... even a few dozen of such jets could be very useful for the navy and for long range strike missions. Would be better than procuring off the shelf jets.

Bro don't use those alphabets here

 

[Great Janjua]

Hand on heart say that it's the best use of the minimum space the JF-17 already has.... If there is space available for a Retractable Probe then maybe we could use it for internally installed irst...

Bro don't use those alphabets here

It's not like hand on heart,Is going to change my views about PAF, And it's Short term thinking but hey I'll bop my head to the music.

 

[Marker]

Did the PAC engineer say "ALL green shaded area are for fuel storage"? Did the PAC engineer specifically mention the front fuselage around the cockpit?

IFR location is indicative of IFR plumbing and probe, nothing else. Just because it has IFR located there, does not mean it can store fuel there as well.

I'll put this as bluntly as I can. Your so called "inference" could not be more wrong. Correlation is not the same thing as causation. No aircraft designer in their right mind would store fuel around the cockpit, for a number of engineering reasons that seems completely lost to some people here. Like I said before, I would love to see the look on the faces of the Chinese engineers if the PAF/PAC asked them to install fuel cells around the cockpit. Have you not wondered why there has been no modern aircraft in the world with fuel stored around the cockpit? But no, you believe the Chinese and PAF/PAC have somehow come up with a revolutionary method to store fuel around the cockpit, and somehow negated the very obvious numerous problems with this daft idea.

Do you know that the car you drive has a fuel tank located just below the rear seat where your parents and children settle down while riding your car!!!

Those of us having CNG installed cars have CNG kit located just behind the rear seat. Also note that wiring for the rear lights also routed in the vicinity!!!!

Your agreement and disagreement is not my concern. As far as I am concern I will take the statement as it is and continue processing. Topic close.......

 

[The Raven]

Do you know that the car you drive has a fuel tank located just below the rear seat where your parents and children settle down while riding your car!!!

Those of us having CNG installed cars have CNG kit located just behind the rear seat. Also note that wiring for the rear lights also routed in the vicinity!!!!

Your agreement and disagreement is not my concern. As far as I am concern I will take the statement as it is and continue processing. Topic close.......

Oh well why didn't you say that in the first place, if there is a fuel tank near the back seat of a car, then there must be a fuel tank in the cockpit of the JF-17!

 

[airbus101]

Can anyone post the program link please

 

[araz]

Why do we still have a removable refueling probe rather than a retractable one it makes no sense.

One is cost and the other is weight consideration. The cost is considerable ( if I remember correctly 200000$ per unit, but dont quote me on it) and the weight,complexity and space consideration were also issues.

 

[Marker]

Oh well why didn't you say that in the first place, if there is a fuel tank near the back seat of a car, then there must be a fuel tank in the cockpit of the JF-17!

Not near, it is located under the rear seat. This is called use of space.

In JF-17 case, apart from usual location of fuel storage compartments ie wings and mid section fuselage, fuel is also being stored inside cavities of stabilisers and outer sides of cockpit.

As I stated in my earlier post military aircraft design is mainly based on mission profile. Aircraft and pilot's safety are other most important goals. The final design optimises every target goal.

If mission spec requirement specifies increase in range then number of design solutions will be considered including efficient fuel consumption and increase in fuel storage space.

Use of the space behind outer sides of the cockpit must be unique and challenging design problem.

 

[khanasifm]

Video

fb.watch

 

[Trailer23]

Did the PAC engineer say "ALL green shaded area are for fuel storage"? Did the PAC engineer specifically mention the front fuselage around the cockpit?

While they were standing next to the Wing, he did indicate that all the shaded area in Green was for fuel storage, but that's not surprising. He also mentioned the same for the Vertical Stabilizer.

However there was nothing discussed on the cockpit..., so I don't know anything about storing fuel in cockpit.

BOL News has not (for some odd reason) uploaded the video on their YouTube Channel.

If they do, i'll FWD you the link.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

While they were standing next to the Wing, he did indicate that all the shaded area in Green was for fuel storage, but that's not surprising. He also mentioned the same for the Vertical Stabilizer.

However there was nothing discussed on the cockpit..., so I don't know anything about storing fuel in cockpit.

BOL News has not (for some odd reason) uploaded the video on their YouTube Channel.

If they do, i'll FWD you the link.

When he comes to the final assembly line at the last B to roll out... He does say all green areas are fuel compartment... The wing production line said the green part is fuel area.

 

[TsAr]

Is this Bol News program available online?