JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[StormBreaker]

AFAIK, the only air-cooled version in the running was the LETRI LKF601E. Because it was the only option about which it was specifically mentioned that it was air-cooled. This is the first time I am hearing of an air-cooled KLJ-7A. Also, of late, Janes have on occasion been known to get it wrong. Lets wait for confirmation/corroboration from another source.

Perhaps all this is leading to Sir @Khafee being right after all.

PAF waited for NRIET to develop KLJ-7A but with LFK’s Air cooling feature.

But madam @messiach said an indigenous solution so maybe perhaps we will produce this in PAC as will or ToT will take place.

Now, since we all are assuming that KLJ-7A air cooled won’t pack that heavy punch, one can easily deduce that we are just saving up on Thunders to spend on something else (F-16/Flankers) but let’s keep that out of this thread because the savings won’t be significant or that PAF has some thing different on cards to counter rafale vis a vis.

One more thing, this article talks in general about Block 3, so we can even guess that the radar mentioned here is for exports only and that PAF will have something different than what is mentioned here, maybe optimized for range.

One more good thing here is the fact that Air cooled reader can also be later on installed on existing Block Thunders as well.

@HRK @Windjammer @MastanKhan @Signalian @Dubious

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

One more good thing here is the fact that Air cooled reader can also be later on installed on existing Block Thunders as well.

Well LK 601E were also marketed to be installed in Block 1s and 2s

 

[aliyusuf]

@MastanKhan @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Mangus Ortus Novem @StormBreaker @Signalian @The Eagle

The RBE-2 AA AESA has been around for almost 8 years on Production fighters i.e. Rafale F3's. The AESA version has 50% more range than the PESA RBE-2 version which had 130km range. So RBE-2 AA AESA most probably has a detection range of around 200km.

The KLJ-7A came out in 2015 and showcased in the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show.

The only reference to range by the chief designer or presenter, was that it had 70% more range than the mechanically scanned radars on the existing Blocks of the Thunder. He also boasted that it was comparable to the radar on the F-35 in technology. He neither gave any indication of the exact range nor the target RCS. Also by that time the Block-2 had come out with the improved KLJ-7.MKII radar in significant numbers. So it is quite possible that the 70% increased range could have been wrt the improved KLJ-7.MKII of Block-2.

This 170km number for 5m² RCS target was first stated by the East Pendulum site right at the time of the Zhuhai Air Show 2016. Claiming to have gotten the numbers from the chief designer. Since then, all other sites have been copying that figure.

Even the LETRI LKF601E the air cooled version has a detection range of 170km for 5m² RCS target.

The delay could have been due to possible enhancement of performance features and range.

Lets wait for another reliable source to corroborate this. And avoid conjecture from getting the better of our judgement. Because speculation and conjecture, no matter how logical and sound, is no guarantee or substitute for reality.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Perhaps all this is leading to Sir @Khafee being right after all.

Can u write on my profile what he said?

 

[StormBreaker]

Can u write on my profile what he said?

Whole pdf knows bro, nothing private he said. The thread of F-16v

@MastanKhan @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Mangus Ortus Novem @StormBreaker @Signalian @The Eagle

The RBE-2 AA AESA has been around for almost 8 years on Production fighters i.e. Rafale F3's. The AESA version has 50% more range than the PESA RBE-2 version which had 130km range. So RBE-2 AA AESA most probably has a detection range of around 200km.

The KLJ-7A came out in 2015 and showcased in the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show.

The only reference to range by the chief designer or presenter, was that it had 70% more range than the mechanically scanned radars on the existing Blocks of the Thunder. He also boasted that it was comparable to the radar on the F-35 in technology. He neither gave any indication of the exact range nor the target RCS. Also by that time the Block-2 had come out with the improved KLJ-7.MKII radar in significant numbers. So it is quite possible that the 70% increased range could have been wrt the improved KLJ-7.MKII of Block-2.

This 170km number for 5m² RCS target was first stated by the East Pendulum site right at the time of the Zhuhai Air Show 2016. Claiming to have gotten the numbers from the chief designer. Since then, all other sites have been copying that figure.

Even the LETRI LKF601E the air cooled version has a detection range of 170km for 5m² RCS target.

The delay could have been due to possible enhancement of performance features and range.

Lets wait for another reliable source to corroborate this. And avoid conjecture from getting the better of our judgement. Because speculation and conjecture, no matter how logical and sound, is no guarantee or substitute for reality.

But no matter what, on papers, the combo of S-400 and Rafale are actually a very big threat and this complicates the whole BVR situation here. The problem is detection and taking off Rafale which has very low RCS, unless Thunders have frontal RCS of 2-2.6m^2, Rafale would give a tough time especially when both are in coverage of s400.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Whole pdf knows bro, nothing private he said. The thread of F-16v


But no matter what, on papers, the combo of S-400 and Rafale are actually a very big threat and this complicates the whole BVR situation here. The problem is detection and taking off Rafale which has very low RCS, unless Thunders have frontal RCS of 2-2.6m^2, Rafale would give a tough time especially when both are in coverage of s400.

Yeah ryt. I think we should consider Koral Jamming system of Turkey. It along with Block 3 can give a bloody nose to IAF

 

[StormBreaker]

Yeah ryt. I think we should consider Koral Jamming system of Turkey. It along with Block 3 can give a bloody nose to IAF

Yea as well as long range SAMs in coverage of S-400 to keep a balance on an area.

 

[aliyusuf]

Whole pdf knows bro, nothing private he said. The thread of F-16v

The F-16 Block-70/72 chances may have diminished after Davos. During which the US had asked Pakistan to distance itself from CPEC and start mutual partnership anew. Pakistan politely declined. So all such deals seem unlikely at the moment.

But no matter what, on papers, the combo of S-400 and Rafale are actually a very big threat and this complicates the whole BVR situation here. The problem is detection and taking off Rafale which has very low RCS, unless Thunders have frontal RCS of 2-2.6m^2, Rafale would give a tough time especially when both are in coverage of s400.

Thunders have lowest frontal clean head on RCS in the PAF fleet. Let's leave at that.

With a proper AA-loadout there is no major difference in head-on RCS between the Thunder and Rafale.

That is the impression I have gotten from some of my sources.

 

[Signalian]

@MastanKhan @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Mangus Ortus Novem @StormBreaker @Signalian @The Eagle

The RBE-2 AA AESA has been around for almost 8 years on Production fighters i.e. Rafale F3's. The AESA version has 50% more range than the PESA RBE-2 version which had 130km range. So RBE-2 AA AESA most probably has a detection range of around 200km.

The KLJ-7A came out in 2015 and showcased in the 2016 Zhuhai Air Show.

The only reference to range by the chief designer or presenter, was that it had 70% more range than the mechanically scanned radars on the existing Blocks of the Thunder. He also boasted that it was comparable to the radar on the F-35 in technology. He neither gave any indication of the exact range nor the target RCS. Also by that time the Block-2 had come out with the improved KLJ-7.MKII radar in significant numbers. So it is quite possible that the 70% increased range could have been wrt the improved KLJ-7.MKII of Block-2.

This 170km number for 5m² RCS target was first stated by the East Pendulum site right at the time of the Zhuhai Air Show 2016. Claiming to have gotten the numbers from the chief designer. Since then, all other sites have been copying that figure.

Even the LETRI LKF601E the air cooled version has a detection range of 170km for 5m² RCS target.

The delay could have been due to possible enhancement of performance features and range.

Lets wait for another reliable source to corroborate this. And avoid conjecture from getting the better of our judgement. Because speculation and conjecture, no matter how logical and sound, is no guarantee or substitute for reality.

Detection Ranges of radar are not always definite. RCS is not the same on all sides. RCS is lower when aircraft is seen from front usually and more on the sides.

MIG 21 RCS

Mig 29 RCS

F-16 RCS

Thunders have lowest frontal clean head on RCS in the PAF fleet. Let's leave at that.

With a proper AA-loadout there is no major difference in head-on RCS between the Thunder and Rafale.

That is the impression I have gotten from some of my sources.

Ok, if JFT switches OFF its Radar, will its RCS increase or decrease or remain the same ?

 

[Dazzler]

Interesting,

A major advantage of the KLJ-7A is its low power consumption. Its power supply and cooling unit can also adapt to different cooling methods of liquid and air cooling of active aircraft.

 

[Signalian]

Perhaps all this is leading to Sir @Khafee being right after all.

PAF waited for NRIET to develop KLJ-7A but with LFK’s Air cooling feature.

But madam @messiach said an indigenous solution so maybe perhaps we will produce this in PAC as will or ToT will take place.

Now, since we all are assuming that KLJ-7A air cooled won’t pack that heavy punch, one can easily deduce that we are just saving up on Thunders to spend on something else (F-16/Flankers) but let’s keep that out of this thread because the savings won’t be significant or that PAF has some thing different on cards to counter rafale vis a vis.

One more thing, this article talks in general about Block 3, so we can even guess that the radar mentioned here is for exports only and that PAF will have something different than what is mentioned here, maybe optimized for range.

One more good thing here is the fact that Air cooled reader can also be later on installed on existing Block Thunders as well.

@HRK @Windjammer @MastanKhan @Signalian @Dubious

Does KLJ-A possess following characteristics ?

1. Wider bandwidth
2. Frequency Hopping
3. Power distribution
4. Continuous wave emission with pulse compression
5. Minimal or negligible side lobes and back lobes

 

[Dazzler]

Does KLJ-A possess following characteristics ?

1. Wider bandwidth
2. Frequency Hopping
3. Power distribution
4. Continuous wave emission with pulse compression
5. Minimal or negligible side lobes and back lobes

Its architecture is very flexible, more than other contenders. NRIET has gone to great length in satisfying PAF's demands.

 

[StormBreaker]

Does KLJ-A possess following characteristics ?

1. Wider bandwidth
2. Frequency Hopping
3. Power distribution
4. Continuous wave emission with pulse compression
5. Minimal or negligible side lobes and back lobes

Only the manufacturers can answer it

Oh well, understood the context, Only PAF knows how well they are against rafale atm

 

[PakShaheen79]

Our problem is that we rely on financial assistance in such procurement from USA. Things will change considerably the day we start negotiations with hard cash payment options. We provide the very tool which Indian lobby in Washington uses against us. The saga of 8 F-16s was a same story. Congress asked for hard cash instead of a partially US funded purchase.

The F-16 Block-70/72 chances may have diminished after Davos. During which the US had asked Pakistan to distance itself from CPEC and start mutual partnership anew. Pakistan politely declined. So all such deals seem unlikely at the moment.



Thunders have lowest frontal clean head on RCS in the PAF fleet. Let's leave at that.

With a proper AA-loadout there is no major difference in head-on RCS between the Thunder and Rafale.

That is the impression I have gotten from some of my sources.

 

[Signalian]

Its architecture is very flexible, more than other contenders. NRIET has gone to great length in satisfying PAF's demands.

I have mentioned characteristics which point towards LPI Radar.