Japan's Growing Naval Power: Japan building more Atago Class GM Destroyers

[Aepsilons]

得了，我怕残废。。呃，你居然和我中文对话，你真的懂吗 嗯？

堅強！你會是安全的！You will never know unless you enlist ! Anyways, it is good because serving in the military builds our body, your spirit, and your mind. Enlistment in China is around 2 years, right? Or was it 3, 4 years?

 

[welcomeJason]

The culture ? LOL ... do u see American used Hollywood to fight a War ? The Culture vs Foreign weapons can't save u, especially in a cruel war & no mercy.

Abandon outdated Confucius, study more Science ! Kid ... new modern warship & jet need hi-techs.

打仗就靠你们了，我很废的。。我的意思是现在内地好多人被别人说没教养，确实要多读书的

 

[Aepsilons]

打仗就靠你们了，我很废的。。我的意思是现在内地好多人被别人说没教养，确实要多读书的

Training is not only essential, but is healthy for the nation. Remember, always prepare for the unexpected.

 

[welcomeJason]

堅強！你會是安全的！You will never know unless you enlist ! Anyways, it is good because serving in the military builds our body, your spirit, and your mind. Enlistment in China is around 2 years, right? Or was it 3, 4 years?

义务的2年吧，其他的不知道。你通中文。。还是不敢相信啊，那我这样一直打中文吧，LOL

Training is not only essential, but is healthy for the nation. Remember, always prepare for the unexpected.

你讲话干嘛还要换头像。。不要秀肌肉好吗，虽然我很瘦。。

 

[KAL-EL]

Official forum language if possible

 

[Aepsilons]

义务的2年吧，其他的不知道。你通中文。。还是不敢相信啊，那我这样一直打中文吧，LOL

Ah, that is what i thought. It is the same in Japan, also 2 year service, tho you can elect to re-enroll. For me, Military Service builds character. It makes a man out of those who enlist. Of course I know Chinese. I have a special fondness for China, Chinese people, culture.

你讲话干嘛还要换头像。。不要秀肌肉好吗，虽然我很瘦。。

LOL!

 

[welcomeJason]

Ah, that is what i thought. It is the same in Japan, also 2 year service, tho you can elect to re-enroll. For me, Military Service builds character. It makes a man out of those who enlist. Of course I know Chinese. I have a special fondness for China, Chinese people, culture.



LOL!

日文和中文的文法不一样，还以为你是猜的呢。好吧，别告诉我你的偏爱是因为你有个中国女朋友，啊哈

Official forum language if possible

频率不对。。

 

[Aepsilons]

日文和中文的文法不一样，还以为你是猜的呢。好吧，别告诉我你的偏爱是因为你有个中国女朋友，啊哈

當然!

Now, let's get back in English, Okay? Thanks, buddy.

 

[welcomeJason]

當然!

Now, let's get back in English, Okay? Thanks, buddy.

You a interesting guy. You have gained the muscles since your military life,is it?

 

[mike2000]

@madokafc Let's back to Japan Atago-class DDG power system...

The Atago DDG using (Wiki) 4x Ishikawajima Harima/General Electric LM2500-30gas turbines, Two shafts 5-bladed CP props, total 100,000 shaft horsepower (75 MW).

Here's a 2011 China news, it's very interesting !

2011 GE & China ShangHai HuaDian Heavy Industries Co., Ltd produce LM2500+G4、LM6000PD gas turbine
中国引进LM2500燃气轮机 促进大型战舰制造
凤凰：中国引进LM2500燃气轮机 原型为西方海军标准动力
华电与GE合资生产LM2500航改型燃气轮机

Well it's not suprise, when i tell u Chinese also can produce LM2500 gas turbine in ShangHai and U.S GE sell LM2500 core techs to Chinese in 2011.

LM2500 inside Chinese warship
View attachment 191809

LM2500 inside U.S Navy
View attachment 191810

We should all stop talking about China import/license production and purchase of diesel engines from Ukraine/U.S/France/Germany before reverse engineering/improving it. Its one ultra nationalistic Chinese member on here who started by trying to put down Japan and make China feel superior by saying Japan is a puppet and can't build all its own core tech indegeniously/independently. This is what started this long off topic argument/debate, since China itself doesnt produce/develops all its own military tech indpendenttly/indegeniously, China also imported/license built/reverse engineered COUNTLESS other military tech/equipments from other countries like Russia/Ukraine etc before starting improving them/making better ones on its own just recently(you have to start from somewhere, so nothing wrong in that). Im just against people who always like to try to put other countries down just to make themslef feel superior. And please we shouldnt bring India into this, even though India still lags way behind Chinha and Japan in its militray industrial complex, but still i believe they were eventually get there one day(Just like China did). So we should cut the crap about this 'I CAN PRODUCE EVERYTHING ALONE WITHOUT ANY HELP/IMPORT/LICENSE FROM ANY COUNTRY UNLIKE MY NEIGHBOUR'. Full stop. Lets get back to topic please.

Currently, we have 26 destroyers , 11 light destroyers, 6 destroyer escorts, some 16 attack submarines, 30 mine countermeasure vessels, various patrol vessels, numerous "training vessels" (which are actually light destroyers), our auxiliary fleet. Currently we are building 2 more Atago Class AEGIS Destroyers , and preparing to build 4 more Akizuki Class Destroyers.

By 2020, our Destroyer Force should be at 32, supported by 11 light destroyers and 6 destroyer escorts. We are currently building 6 more Soryu Class Subs, so our total Attack Sub Force will be up to 22 by 2020-2025.

We will also have 6 Light Aircraft Carriers.



That is right, the picture in the first post is actually the JS Myoko , of the Kongo Class Destroyer of JMSDF. Its being upgraded with SM3 Block IIas, as all ships of the Kongo class are being upgraded with those.

WOW...........Thats a scary Navy Japan is building..........ASIA should Behold of the rising Sun. Keep it going Japan.

 

[Penguin]

Europe has only provided us some diesel engines for the smaller vessels like the Type 054A.

That's all you have.

Do you have the technology of the aircraft carrier? Nope

Do you have the technology of the nuclear sub? Nope

Do you have the technology of the large cruiser/destroyer? Nope

Then no thanks.

Well, Ukraine (largest country fully in Europe) has provided China with gasturbines for the 052B/C and local derivatives are used in 052D and likely in 055. And how about Russian radars, eh? French radars and sonars. Or surface to air missiles from boith France and Russia. There are also Italian supplied radars. Lightweight ASW torps? Sure, there are now local derivatives and developments, but there is no denying European involvement.

There are several European countries that have built or build aircraft carriers (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Russia), nuclear subs (UK, France, Russia), and which easily could build large cruisers or larger destroyers (if they chose to).

QC-280 is not licenced at all, and it is becoming 100% Chinese.

As for the diesel engine, we don't pay too much attention about those low-end technologies.

And we are creating a lot of jobs for the French workers, and they should thank for us for this.

It is not the totally irreplaceable tech for us.

propulsion on the 052D is the QC-280 Chinese copy of Ukraine Zorya-Mashproekt UGT 15000, also designated DN/80 gas turbine propulsion. Xian Aero Engine (XAE) manufactured the QC-280 under license from Ukraine in 1990 when eight were imported as the QD-80 for two Luhu ships. The XAE-built prototype with 28 megawatts of power was installed on the 052B Wuhan hull 169 in 2009, which made a Somali TG9 deployment in 2011. CNET 5 with DDG 168 left Hainan for the Gulf of Aden from March to July 2010, but it was not believed to have been modernized with the QC-280. The 052D reportedly has two diesel engines each providing six megawatts of power. All 052B/C Luyang DDGs and the 052D have license-produced MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines by Shaanxi Diesel Work rated at 4.9 megawatts of power.

 

[mike2000]

Well, Ukraine (largest country fully in Europe) has provided China with gasturbines for the 052B/C and local derivatives are used in 052D and likely in 055. And how about Russian radars, eh? French radars and sonars. Or surface to air missiles from boith France and Russia. There are also Italian supplied radars. Lightweight ASW torps? Sure, there are now local derivatives and developments, but there is no denying European involvement.

There are several European countries that have built or build aircraft carriers (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Russia), nuclear subs (UK, France, Russia), and which easily could build large cruisers or larger destroyers (if they chose to).


propulsion on the 052D is the QC-280 Chinese copy of Ukraine Zorya-Mashproekt UGT 15000, also designated DN/80 gas turbine propulsion. Xian Aero Engine (XAE) manufactured the QC-280 under license from Ukraine in 1990 when eight were imported as the QD-80 for two Luhu ships. The XAE-built prototype with 28 megawatts of power was installed on the 052B Wuhan hull 169 in 2009, which made a Somali TG9 deployment in 2011. CNET 5 with DDG 168 left Hainan for the Gulf of Aden from March to July 2010, but it was not believed to have been modernized with the QC-280. The 052D reportedly has two diesel engines each providing six megawatts of power. All 052B/C Luyang DDGs and the 052D have license-produced MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines by Shaanxi Diesel Work rated at 4.9 megawatts of power.

My friend Penguin, just leave it there, and avoid continuing debating about this with ChineseTiger, he seems to be even more ultran nationalistic than Superboy.

I dont know why he is hell bent on proving China is some kind of Superior to Japan. If/when a country is superior/powerful enough, its bold enough not to indulge in such debates/insecurity. Instead it admires/respect/congratulates other of its competitors/rivals like the U.S does. China still has a very LOngggg way to go. Too early to start boasting and downplaying others just to feel better, This despite the fact that our Japanese friend Nihonji is one of the most humble/respectful/friendly member on here, i have been following his comments, and he always congratulates China when China accomplishes something/talk positively abouut Japans cooperatin with China(even though some Chinese members keep trolling/making some rash comments at times), but i hardly see Chinese members(bar a few) do the same when it comes to Japan, i can only call this insecurity to be honest. I dont know why members here find it difficult to congratulate/respect/give credit when its due to their 'rival country'. I always congratulate any/every country when i think its due/when they deserve it, whether its China, Japan, India, Iran, Turkey ,U.S, etc We are all human beings afterall, and we will all one day turn back into dust, why not enjoy the moment/time we have together for once and avoid all this political games/foolish rivalry/bitterness? That should be left to Politicians.

@Nihonjin1051 , Please keep up your good work/behaviour, you are one of the few members here which i admire/respect alot, i have almolmost never seen you trolling/making negative/bad comments about any country on here(even Japans 'rival/ennemy countries). Its not easy to find someone like you here who is honest/not too biased to be honest, Well apart from me.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, Ukraine (largest country fully in Europe) has provided China with gasturbines for the 052B/C and local derivatives are used in 052D and likely in 055. And how about Russian radars, eh? French radars and sonars. Or surface to air missiles from boith France and Russia. There are also Italian supplied radars. Lightweight ASW torps? Sure, there are now local derivatives and developments, but there is no denying European involvement.

There are several European countries that have built or build aircraft carriers (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Russia), nuclear subs (UK, France, Russia), and which easily could build large cruisers or larger destroyers (if they chose to).


propulsion on the 052D is the QC-280 Chinese copy of Ukraine Zorya-Mashproekt UGT 15000, also designated DN/80 gas turbine propulsion. Xian Aero Engine (XAE) manufactured the QC-280 under license from Ukraine in 1990 when eight were imported as the QD-80 for two Luhu ships. The XAE-built prototype with 28 megawatts of power was installed on the 052B Wuhan hull 169 in 2009, which made a Somali TG9 deployment in 2011. CNET 5 with DDG 168 left Hainan for the Gulf of Aden from March to July 2010, but it was not believed to have been modernized with the QC-280. The 052D reportedly has two diesel engines each providing six megawatts of power. All 052B/C Luyang DDGs and the 052D have license-produced MTU 20V 956TB92 diesel engines by Shaanxi Diesel Work rated at 4.9 megawatts of power.

Man, haven't you seen what I mentioned above? Leave this thread alone, and move to the Chinese section if you wanna discuss.

Our QC-280 is becoming fully indigenous, and its newest derivative QC-280IC can output more than 40MW. Now we don't need Ukraine's help to build our gas turbine, since Ukraine itself is pretty much finished as a country.

 

[Penguin]

Man, haven't you seen what I mentioned above? Leave this thread alone, and move to the Chinese section if you wanna discuss.

Our QC-280 is becoming fully indigenous, and its newest derivative QC-280IC can output more than 40MW. Now we don't need Ukraine's help to build our gas turbine, since Ukraine itself is pretty much finished as a country.

Of course it is, because you say so.
And if you don't want it discussed here, try not to make inaccurate remarks here.

For example, I didn't say China needs help in building gasturbines today. That was not the point of contention. And the current state of Ukraine is irrelevant as far as its past involvement in tech transfer to China is concerned. A country which has singlehandedly invented the Su-27, no doubt (just to give an example of a system).

 

[jhungary]

I still don't quite Understand why selective Chinese member would go to another thread that is not related to China at all and start poking anything and trying to compare it to China....

There are a lot of "Big Deal, Chinese do this in house" or "We can produce a lot of that in just a short time frame or anything"

Did I see any judgment passing by an American laughing at Chinese Naval capacity in any Chinese Naval Thread? no. Or Japanese laughing at Chinese achievement. So if this is ok, then should I start post that compare USN to PLAN every time I see a Chinese Naval Thread going? and saying stuff that "Chinese Carrier can't even beat the 9 jeep carrier the US have, what is the achievement there??"

@Hu Songshan you give me 2 warning for posting a no harm joke and chalk it to derailing or off topic in another thread, and tell me this forum is running at a 3 strike rules, yet I see a lot of this going on and I have probably reported about a hundred times myself. So, did the 3 strike rules only applies to non-ethnic Chinese member where those Chinese here have a license to go off topic??

@Nihonjin1051 Going back to topic.

I think in the end, the Japanese should start building Mini-carrier, I mean the 40k ton class. Stop making the 25k ton class and. It's time to take the responsibility back to your own country, the US could not and would not stay in japan forever, look at what happened to Philippine.

By that I mean a combine Land/Sea/Air Defence network. While AEGIS is Fun to make but JMSDF also need a lot of supply ship and supporting ships. Japanese Government should have ask the US to least their Tawara Class to train with Assault Carrier. I think it doesn't matter how good you can do both Below and Surface naval fighting capability, the important issue here is that you can protect your land from a Sea assault and you can engage a far away enemy with your own assault force, both of which would require a proper Assault Carrier.

JMSDF Ships Array

JDS Izumo

JD Hyūga

JDS Kurama (A ship always connect me to IJN Mogami)

JDS Shimokita

JDS Atago

JDS Kongo

JDS Hatakaze