Japan considers building its own fighter jets

[Mehrdad1111]

i don't think that thats a good idea. why not buying battle tested US fighters? at least in germany it was a huge mistake to build the eurofighter instead of buying US F-15 and F-16 jets and then jump over to the lightning II. the eurofighter is somewhat outdated (because it is a 20 years old concept) and much more expensive then expected.

 

[Cossack25A1]

The cost of 1 Jas Gripen is $69 million, not including maintenance cost. With that amount, the Philippine Air Force can acquire almost 3 F/A-50s or 2 of the F-16 CD variants.

In addition, the combat record of the F-16 is proven , whereas that of the Jas Gripen is in want.


----------


F-16 Falcon 76-1-5

Gulf War (USA) 0-0-3
No-Fly Zones (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 4-0-1
Kosovo (USA) 1-0-1
Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0
Kosovo (Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, Turkey) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0
Soviet-Afghan War (Pakistan) 10-0-0
Border clashes (Pakistan) 1-0-0
Kargil War (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Northwest border wars (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea clashes (Turkey) 1-1-0
Venezuelan Coup 1992 (Venezuela) 3-0-0

Well it can either be the F-16 or F/A-18 fighters.

 

[BoQ77]

Correct. the Late Shah of Iran had been a fan of the F-14s, ironically, they proved effective against the Iraqi Air Force's Mig-29 Fulcrums.

Mig-17 and Mig-21 by Vietnamese pilots proved effective against F-8 and F-4 by US pilots too.
At the same time, same Mig 21 by Egypt, syrian, was down against Israeli F4

 

[Aepsilons]

The design seems to imply that it would likely replace the F-2 or F-15 since the F-3 appear to be a multirole fighter and the F-3E is either similar to a bomber or similar to the F-15E Strike Eagle.

Yes, that is correct.

Mig-17 and Mig-21 by Vietnamese pilots proved effective against F-8 and F-4 by US pilots too.
At the same time, same Mig 21 by Egypt, syrian, was down against Israeli F4

Human error cannot be divorced in the equation of a sortie's success.

 

[Zero_wing]

I think 2 years ago when the Philippines' Ministry of Foreign Affairs Sec. Albert Del Rosario had met with U.S counterparts, they had discussed the sales of F-16s through Government to Government initiative. The cost and maintenance was too high, i think for them. However, it seems that they have increased their defense budget since then. They (Philippines) had purchased 12 units of the Korean FA-50 Eagles, which is based on the F-16 specs. If the Philippines is satisfied with the FA-50s, I'm sure they might consider getting the real thing -- the F-16.

If they can maintain an Air Fleet of : 12 F/A-50 Eagles, and perhaps a squadron of F-16s, or perhaps a squadron of F-15s, they will have the air defense capability needed to protect their air domain.

The Philippines, in my opinion, has the potential to maintain this. During the 1970s and early 1980s, they had an incredible Air Force. They boasted over 40 F-8 Phantoms, and three squadrons of F-5 Tiger IIs. They fielded the strongest Air Force in South East Asia.

I believe that they can do it again.



Had that happened, the Philippines would have been far more modernized than most industrialized nations in the world. The Philippines would have been just like Guam , Puerto Rico. With all the people in your archipelago -- technically being U.S Citizens.

Sir its F8 crusader not the F8 phantom your talking about a different Fighter which is a pain in the @$$ to operate its to expensive and the early models were all missile base platforms anyway the F8 Crusaders were our first Air superiority Figther along with our F5s and our F86 sabers making the Philippine Airforces the best in Asia (also known as the Golden age of the Airforce) but you can thank the Maoist puppets for that the so called makabayans who are nothing but political oppotunist who have no ideas at all useless all of them well getting that aside on other point we never had F16s but we offered the block 25s that were embrago to Pakistan but we did not take the offer due to price difference and politics and the state of the block 25 i was meant to replace the already old F5s but nothing came of it other was with some minor modifications for the Philippines the F16PH (it was limited details am trying to reconfirm this) i think it was Presidents Erap"s time that was offered when Lockheed was trying to make a base of operations here and to build a service and repair station in Subic but that really got no were. Dont Get me wrong comrade Nihonjin am not trying to insult you like the maoist jerks here was just trying to correct some mistakes you made on your post. Again if Japan will offere the Philippines will buy what it can on the offere as part of our modernization plans we make it a priority to transact using G2G (Government to Government Transactions) to faciliate our modernization especially countries we sign defense cooperation agreements with and i think Japan was one of those countries so maybe will have those Japanese Missile boats to serve as our OPVs or Japanese nija's light attack helicopters or Japanese type 10s or type 90s or that New Japanese tank destroryer's etc.

As of now and state this again we currently in the capabilities upgrade stage going to full modernization so our modernization plans are not done it so we all have to wait and see. On the other issue you were discussing as Filipino we fought hard both on the Battlefield and the Political arena for freedom and Independence we deserve to be free and Independent we paid for in blood so i firmly believe no one has the right to question that! just because we have problems no does not define us as a people it happens in every country but it will all past and am confident that current Generation of Filipinos are better than old generation so us making better choices is high.

But going back on topic Its no issue if Japan can make planes but were are you going to get the matrieals for the planes your going to make china is obviously not a source of metals and alloys?

 

[Aepsilons]

@Cossack25A1 ,

There are talks in Japanese defense forums of the F3E's being equipped with Storm Shadow Cruise Missiles. This will be the game changer as it will be capable of hitting ground / naval targets with an operational range of 500 kms (around 310 miles).I believe that we can also arm the F3s as well as the F-35 Lightning IIs that we've already ordered (42 or so) , these can be launched from our Light Carriers.

 

[Cossack25A1]

@Cossack25A1 ,

There are talks in Japanese defense forums of the F3E's being equipped with Storm Shadow Cruise Missiles. This will be the game changer as it will be capable of hitting ground / naval targets with an operational range of 500 kms (around 310 miles).I believe that we can also arm the F3s as well as the F-35 Lightning IIs that we've already ordered (42 or so) , these can be launched from our Light Carriers.

Well, a fighter with long range cruise missile has a better offensive capability than a cruise missile on a large truck. I guess the F-3E with Storm Shadow missiles could be used in conjunction with the JMSDF ships to defense the said ships from hostile cruise missiles, given the F-3E's missile hits hostile's mobile launchers first.

 

[SALMAN F]

TOKYO —

Japan is considering building its own fighter jets after years of playing second fiddle in a U.S. construction partnership, a report said Thursday, in a move likely to stoke fears of its military resurgence among Asian neighbors.

Japan’s attempt in the 1980s to build its first purely domestic fighters since World War II faced U.S. resistance and resulted in joint U.S.-Japan development and production of the F-2, the Nikkei newspaper said.

But joint F-2 production ended more than two years ago and the last of the fighters are due to be retired from Japan’s air defense force around 2028, it added.

The defense ministry plans to seek about 40 billion yen in state funding for the next year starting in April 2015 to test experimental engines and radar-dodging stealth airframe designs for a purely Japanese fighter, the report said.

According to its medium-term defense program, the Tokyo government will decide by the 2018 financial year whether to go ahead with the all-Japanese fighter project.

There is a growing need for Japan to develop a long-haul, highly stealthy fighter jets in face of China’s increasing assertiveness in the East China Sea, where the two countries are locked in a dispute over a group of Tokyo-controlled islands, the Nikkei said.

Beijing regularly warns of what it says is Tokyo’s intent to re-arm on the quiet, saying selective amnesia about its World War II behavior means it cannot be trusted to have a fully-fledged military.

Last month the cabinet of conservative Prime Minister Shinzo Abe loosened the bonds on Japan’s military—proclaiming the right to go into battle in defense of allies—in a highly controversial shift in the nation’s post-war pacifist stance.

Japan denies its intent is anything other than defensive, and hits back that Beijing’s opaque military spending and its burgeoning ambitions are the real danger.

The defense ministry started work four years ago on the so-called Advanced Technology Demonstrator-X (ATD-X) plane to explore the project’s feasibility by studying lightweight airframe designs and built-in missile-firing mechanisms, the Nikkei said.

The ATD-X is due to start testing experimental engines in January and the stealth airframe designs in April, the report said.

The ministry hopes to develop the actual engines for the project in cooperation with IHI, Mitsubishi Heavy and other defense contractors in about five years.


Japan considers building its own fighter jets ‹ Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion

Does Japan have its own kinds of jets or will only copy the us jets

 

[Aepsilons]

Sir its F8 crusader not the F8 phantom your talking about a different Fighter which is a pain in the @$$ to operate its to expensive and the early models were all missile base platforms anyway the F8 Crusaders were our first Air superiority Figther along with our F5s and our F86 sabers making the Philippine Airforces the best in Asia (also known as the Golden age of the Airforce) but you can thank the Maoist puppets for that the so called makabayans who are nothing but political oppotunist who have no ideas at all useless all of them well getting that aside on other point we never had F16s but we offered the block 25s that were embrago to Pakistan but we did not take the offer due to price difference and politics and the state of the block 25 i was meant to replace the already old F5s but nothing came of it other was with some minor modifications for the Philippines the F16PH (it was limited details am trying to reconfirm this) i think it was Presidents Erap"s time that was offered when Lockheed was trying to make a base of operations here and to build a service and repair station in Subic but that really got no were. Dont Get me wrong comrade Nihonjin am not trying to insult you like the maoist jerks here was just trying to correct some mistakes you made on your post. Again if Japan will offere the Philippines will buy what it can on the offere as part of our modernization plans we make it a priority to transact using G2G (Government to Government Transactions) to faciliate our modernization especially countries we sign defense cooperation agreements with and i think Japan was one of those countries so maybe will have those Japanese Missile boats to serve as our OPVs or Japanese nija's light attack helicopters or Japanese type 10s or type 90s or that New Japanese tank destroryer's etc.

As of now and state this again we currently in the capabilities upgrade stage going to full modernization so our modernization plans are not done it so we all have to wait and see. On the other issue you were discussing as Filipino we fought hard both on the Battlefield and the Political arena for freedom and Independence we deserve to be free and Independent we paid for in blood so i firmly believe no one has the right to question that! just because we have problems no does not define us as a people it happens in every country but it will all past and am confident that current Generation of Filipinos are better than old generation so us making better choices is high.

But going back on topic Its no issue if Japan can make planes but were are you going to get the matrieals for the planes your going to make china is obviously not a source of metals and alloys?

Thanks for that impressive information Pareng @Zero_wing . Akala ko meron pa ba ang F-5 sa PAF , hindi ba yun pupunta sa reserve force , o na mothballed talaga ang lahat ?

As for the history of the Philippine Air Force, no doubt, my friend, they were considered The Best Air Force in Asia from the 1950s to the early 1980s. I mean, even during the height of the cold war, I remember reading reports of US and Philippine fighters being scrambled from Clarke to address Russian long range strategic bombers.

For a while now the Philippines had a limited air force, but now with the acquisition of the F-50s, and perhaps with acquisition of either the JAS Gripen or F-16, your country will have a formidable air force that can challenge any foreign fighter's intrusion into Philippine air space, as well as be scrambled to challenge any maritime intrusion. I can only hope that Aquino or who ever his successor will be -- can maintain the defense modernization in the Philippines.

Maraming na Maraming Salamat.

Does Japan have its own kinds of jets or will only copy the us jets

We have our own. We've produced our own jets for F1, and modified F2. The current Mitsubishi MTDX Shinshin will show case our first truly indigenous 5th generation design. The avionics are expected to be meet our high expectation. Given Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' immense experience in this field, we are very confident.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Thanks for that impressive information Pareng @Zero_wing . Akala ko meron pa ba ang F-5 sa PAF , hindi ba yun pupunta sa reserve force , o na mothballed talaga ang lahat ?

The F-5s are decommissioned way back in 2005 and will be likely mothballed or sold as scrap, which made the S-211 as the only jet-powered aircraft we have left to "defend" our airspace.

 

[Aepsilons]

The F-5s are decommissioned way back in 2005 and will be likely mothballed or sold as scrap, which made the S-211 as the only jet-powered aircraft we have left to "defend" our airspace.

Really? They weren't put on reserve force at all ? Ah well, at least this year the arrival of the first FA-50 will be seen.

Mabuhay an Pilipinas !

 

[Zero_wing]

The cost of 1 Jas Gripen is $69 million, not including maintenance cost. With that amount, the Philippine Air Force can acquire almost 3 F/A-50s or 2 of the F-16 CD variants.

In addition, the combat record of the F-16 is proven , whereas that of the Jas Gripen is in want.


----------


F-16 Falcon 76-1-5

Gulf War (USA) 0-0-3
No-Fly Zones (USA) 2-0-0
Bosnia (USA) 4-0-1
Kosovo (USA) 1-0-1
Kosovo (Netherlands) 1-0-0
Kosovo (Portugal, Belgium, Denmark, Turkey) 0-0-0
Afghanistan (USA, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) 0-0-0
Iraq (USA) 0-0-0
Syrian border clashes 1979-1986 (Israel) 6-0-0
Operation Opera (Israel) 0-0-0
Lebanon War (1982) (Israel) 44-0-0
Lebanon War (2006) (Israel) 3-0-0
Intifada (2000-present) (Israel) 0-0-0
Soviet-Afghan War (Pakistan) 10-0-0
Border clashes (Pakistan) 1-0-0
Kargil War (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Northwest border wars (Pakistan) 0-0-0
Aegean Sea clashes (Turkey) 1-1-0
Venezuelan Coup 1992 (Venezuela) 3-0-0

Yes but again comrade its not decided yet am saying its a strong contender for the Fighter bid and i guess with our case will follow the lease to own route if we are going to get the Gripen and as far maintains goes since the Gripens will buy just in case will have the same engines as our FA50s so by the time we have them the support facilities for the planes will already set up but again its still a contender no official decision has been made as of yet.

 

[Cossack25A1]

Really? They weren't put on reserve force at all ? Ah well, at least this year the arrival of the first FA-50 will be seen.

Mabuhay an Pilipinas !

Well no, they were not as they were retired after being in service for 40 years. Most likely reason is the spare parts for the F-5 being rare now.

 

[Zero_wing]

Grippen has been proven pretty expensive to be maintained by a number of its operator including South African Air force, and Thai Air force. However, if the PAF thought it could maintain this fighter, than good for them. Grippen is definitely hell of a fighter.

Again its a strong contender no official decision has been made and besides its still on the bidding stage the gripen is only a contender and besides Saab the makers of the plane has been known to make some sweet deals to sell the plane according to previous sells to different countries South Africa was just bad deal but i think will follow the czeh or the Thailand deal or mixture of both Saab is creative in deal making to sell the plane but again Gripen is a contender not an official decision of the Philippine Government or the Philippine Airforce.

Well it can either be the F-16 or F/A-18 fighters.

Actually the old F18 was being evaluated to be the next contender to replace both the F8 and the F5 and this time it the Philippines was going to buy them new before the Asian financial crisis happen but after the Crisis the offere was dropdue the fact the Philippines could not pay for them anymore go think no plane was made yet though it would be great though if that did not happen the Philippine would have F18s to guard aganist the Red maoist pirates but saidly history has to run its course.

 

[Zero_wing]

Thanks for that impressive information Pareng @Zero_wing . Akala ko meron pa ba ang F-5 sa PAF , hindi ba yun pupunta sa reserve force , o na mothballed talaga ang lahat ?

As for the history of the Philippine Air Force, no doubt, my friend, they were considered The Best Air Force in Asia from the 1950s to the early 1980s. I mean, even during the height of the cold war, I remember reading reports of US and Philippine fighters being scrambled from Clarke to address Russian long range strategic bombers.

For a while now the Philippines had a limited air force, but now with the acquisition of the F-50s, and perhaps with acquisition of either the JAS Gripen or F-16, your country will have a formidable air force that can challenge any foreign fighter's intrusion into Philippine air space, as well as be scrambled to challenge any maritime intrusion. I can only hope that Aquino or who ever his successor will be -- can maintain the defense modernization in the Philippines.

Maraming na Maraming Salamat.





We have our own. We've produced our own jets for F1, and modified F2. The current Mitsubishi MTDX Shinshin will show case our first truly indigenous 5th generation design. The avionics are expected to be meet our high expectation. Given Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' immense experience in this field, we are very confident.

Man your Filipino skills are getting better maligayang bati ka nihonjin anyway yes am a optimist we can get better but the old days are gone we have to make a new golden age for the Philippines not just the Airforce and am looking forward to the new equipments and system we are going to get and hoping to see more Japanese systems and equipment every soon