Jack Jacob: The general who saved India from more war.

[Rafi]

^^^
But Iran is a theocratic state with a fairly harsh interpretation of our faith, but keep in mind - Iran was also Muslim before the revolution, and there are some fairly senior Ayatollah's who have quite a liberal interpretation of Islamic law, some you could even describe as dissidents.

 

[Joe Shearer]

^^^
But Iran is a theocratic state with a fairly harsh interpretation of our faith, but keep in mind - Iran was also Muslim before the revolution, and there are some fairly senior Ayatollah's who have quite a liberal interpretation of Islamic law, some you could even describe as dissidents.

Tell that to the woman getting buried, knowing what is to follow.

 

[Rafi]

Tell that to the woman getting buried, knowing what is to follow.

Et tu, JS

I do not know the authenticity of the photo - but I honestly believe Iran will become like it was, before the revolution. In fact I am certain of it. Regardless that photo real or fake, is not my what I believe my Islam to be. It is the Islam of the Prophet, of Rumi, Bulleh Shah, Baba Farid, Waris etc.

My beautiful mystical Islam - that conquered the hearts of people around the world.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Et tu, JS

I do not know the authenticity of the photo - but I honestly believe Iran will become like it was, before the revolution. In fact I am certain of it. Regardless that photo real or fake, is not my what I believe my Islam to be. It is the Islam of the Prophet, of Rumi, Bulleh Shah, Baba Farid, Waris etc.

My beautiful mystical Islam - that conquered the hearts of people around the world.

Hold on. That came across very bitter, and a gibe directed at you personally.

It wasn't directed at you personally; it was bitter. I accept that you are trying to reconcile your own style and inclusive way of looking at faith with versions that spring to the attention of jaundiced observers, and make you part of a band of die-hard fanatics and cruel bigots. You should accept that people understand and are making allowances for your own humane point of view (bar the teeth-clenching flippancy) while pointing out, sometimes with a certain degree of spiteful humour, the aberrations of the fringe elements of the faith you profess.

If you dish it out, you have to take it.

 

[Vinod2070]

^^^
But Iran is a theocratic state with a fairly harsh interpretation of our faith, but keep in mind - Iran was also Muslim before the revolution, and there are some fairly senior Ayatollah's who have quite a liberal interpretation of Islamic law, some you could even describe as dissidents.

That is not harsh interpretation. That is the literal interpretation.

Going back to the roots as it were.

This has always been the reality of the Islamic world. When you say you want to go back to the roots, this is what the roots are.

You claimed majority of Pakistanis don't favor this literal interpretation. I have shown you that is not true.

Decide which boat to ride.

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is not harsh interpretation. That is the literal interpretation.

Going back to the roots as it were.

This has always been the reality of the Islamic world. When you say you want to go back to the roots, this is what the roots are.

You claimed majority of Pakistanis don't favor this literal interpretation. I have shown you that is not true.

Decide which boat to ride.

The trouble is, you have already decided, but you have selected heterodoxy over orthodoxy. Islam's single book, single source philosophy is vulnerable to every passing year. It does not age well. Other religions have similar built-in inadequacies; it is most pronounced in prophetic, Abrahamic religions.

 

[Vinod2070]

The trouble is, you have already decided, but you have selected heterodoxy over orthodoxy. Islam's single book, single source philosophy is vulnerable to every passing year. It does not age well. Other religions have similar built-in inadequacies; it is most pronounced in prophetic, Abrahamic religions.

Agree with everything you said.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Rafi]

Vinod you really make me laugh, you sure you're not a closet taliban - you are trying to impose your own prejudices - and problems with Muslims and their religion, upon my faith - and the way I live my life.

“Knock, And He'll open the door
Vanish, And He'll make you shine like the sun

Fall, And He'll raise you to the heavens
Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.”
― Rumi

My Islam, My religion.

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod you really make me laugh, you sure you're not a closet taliban - you are trying to impose your own prejudices - and problems with Muslims and their religion, upon my faith - and the way I live my life.

“Knock, And He'll open the door
Vanish, And He'll make you shine like the sun

Fall, And He'll raise you to the heavens
Become nothing, And He'll turn you into everything.”
― Rumi

My Islam, My religion.

Yes. Just follow it right.

And don't brag about breaking it in letter and spirit and then also try to preach it!

The people blowing up Rumi's followers are not us.

 

[Rafi]

Yes. Just follow it right.

And don't brag about breaking it in letter and spirit and then also try to preach it!

The people blowing up Rumi's followers are not us.

LoL - I have certain weaknesses - wine, women and song - does not make me a non-believer - just a work in progress - and I preach it, because I believe in it, and on - we go on the magic roundabout.

 

[Vinod2070]

LoL - I have certain weaknesses - wine, women and song - does not make me a non-believer - just a work in progress - and I preach it, because I believe in it, and on - we go on the magic roundabout.

To be fair, if what you claim here is true, you are closer to your Dharmic roots in your religious thinking than to what you are preaching. Probably the last few hundred years have been not sufficient to completely wipe out the tens of thousands of years before that.

Sometimes stage 2 people are equally or even more fanatic than stage 1 and that is fine by us.

Now, whether what you do (or at least brag about, remember those who really do don't brag) makes you a non believer or wajib-ul-qatl is something we better leave it to the infinite judgment of your fellow Islamists, the mainstream ones.

My beautiful mystical Islam - that conquered the hearts of people around the world.

In fact, there is no mysticism in Islam, as it started off. It is a latter day addition, a bidat.

Islam is a religion of absolute certitudes.

If you are in it for its love of music and mysticism, I have to say you landed at the wrong station.

 

[Rafi]

To be fair, if what you claim here is true, you are closer to your Dharmic roots in your religious thinking than to what you are preaching. Probably the last few hundred years have been not sufficient to completely wipe out the tens of thousands of years before that.

Sometimes stage 2 people are equally or even more fanatic than stage 1 and that is fine by us.

Now, whether what you do (or at least brag about, remember those who really do don't brag) makes you a non believer or wajib-ul-qatl is something we better leave it to the infinite judgment of your fellow Islamists, the mainstream ones.



In fact, there is no mysticism in Islam, as it started off. It is a latter day addition, a bidat.

Islam is a religion of absolute certitudes.

If you are in it for its love of music and mysticism, I have to say you landed at the wrong station.

I disagree, the mysticism in Islam has always been there - you seem to think that the harsh Salafi interpretation of Islam is the only one - there is, regarding been targeted by the takfiri - well they can, and have tried, but we defenders of Pakistan - are made of sterner stuff, my Clan sends plenty of boys and girls into the Armed Forces. We will defend the Motherland from all enemies, both internal and external.

 

[Vinod2070]

I disagree, the mysticism in Islam has always been there - you seem to think that the harsh Salafi interpretation of Islam is the only one - there is, regarding been targeted by the takfiri - well they can, and have tried, but we defenders of Pakistan - are made of sterner stuff, my Clan sends plenty of boys and girls into the Armed Forces. We will defend the Motherland from all enemies, both internal and external.

No. I know there are more than one interpretations. It was not meant to be, your prophet warned against it and said that all those going against the official interpretation will rot in hell eternally.

Show me an example of mysticism during the prophet's time.

Just one quote in the Quran that has an element of mysticism.

Just one!

Or admit and decide the boat.

 

[Rig Vedic]

I disagree, the mysticism in Islam has always been there - you seem to think that the harsh Salafi interpretation of Islam is the only one - there is, regarding been targeted by the takfiri - well they can, and have tried, but we defenders of Pakistan - are made of sterner stuff, my Clan sends plenty of boys and girls into the Armed Forces. We will defend the Motherland from all enemies, both internal and external.

Islam is defined by the Quran and the Sahih Hadith, which tell us about the personal behavior of the Prophet Muhammad.

 

[Rafi]

No. I know there are more than one interpretations. It was not meant to be, your prophet warned against it and said that all those going against the official interpretation will rot in hell eternally.

Show me an example of mysticism during the prophet's time.

Just one quote in the Quran that has an element of mysticism.

Just one!

Or admit and decide the boat.

My boat is Islam's - you are free to choose your boat also.

God is the Light of the heavens and the earth, the likeness of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp, the lamp is a glass, the glass as it were a glittering star kindled from a blessed tree, an olive that is neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil well-night would shine, even if no fire touched it; light upon lights; God guides to His light whom He will. And God strikes similitudes for man, and God has knowledge of everything. (Qu’ran 24:35)