‘J-K integral part of India, Pak must vacate illegally occupied areas’ UK MP

[Apprentice]

No...I am sure many rational Pakistanis will agree with me.

How about if I list some.

Because of Kashmir...you have virtually no relations with India and India has become your adversary
Because of Kashmir...the religious nut heads are running amok in your country
Because of Kashmir...you have become a security state
Because of Kashmir...25% of budget goes to defense
Because of Kashmir...you military enjoy more power than your elected representatives
Because of Kashmir...you spend majority of your energy and resources on Kashmir than the welfare of your masses

Pakistan has always performed well, at times even better economically than India when it is under military rule.

The democratically elected politicians are a joke. If Zardari is democracy, we want millitary rule.

Even if Pakistan continues to spend on Kashmir at the same rate, it can continue to look after its people's welfare.

During the 80s Pakistan used to proudly boast that no one slept on the streets, at the same time then India was known as a land of beggars with only the Taj Mahal and some handicrafts to its credit.

Its India's obsession with Pakistan that has hurt it. During the period after 1971 and through the 80s, except for a response to Indian aggression on Siachen and during Operation Brasstacks, Pakistan could not be bothered with India. It was not on Pakistani people's minds.

India invited Pakistan's revenge in Indian Punjab due to its own mischief it created a decade ago in East Pakistan. Tit for tat.

But after your government rigged elections in 1987 in Kashmir the entire situation changed. The Kashmiris had voted in 1987 for pro-Pakistan and Muslim nationalist parties who wanted a plebiscite. But India rigged it in favour of their own stooge government.

The Kashmiri Muslim people had always wanted to join Pakistan and they intended to use democracy of India in peaceful means to achieve that outcome. But when the illusion of Indian democracy ended the Kashmiri Muslim people rose up and (initially) demanded to join Pakistan, and India responded by making it the most millitarsed region on Earth and started massacring and raping Kashmiri Muslims. Due to that thousands of Kashmiri Muslims fled to Azad Kashmir, even before the Pandit drama.

 

[That Guy]

No...I am sure many rational Pakistanis will agree with me.

How about if I list some.

Because of Kashmir...you have virtually no relations with India and India has become your adversary
Because of Kashmir...the religious nut heads are running amok in your country
Because of Kashmir...you have become a security state
Because of Kashmir...25% of budget goes to defense
Because of Kashmir...you military enjoy more power than your elected representatives
Because of Kashmir...you spend majority of your energy and resources on Kashmir than the welfare of your masses

But, with the exception of the first one, none of that is actually true.

It isn't because of Kashmir that religious nuts exist in the country, it's because of the war in Afghanistan, and it's blowback. Similar story with being a security state. It's not because of Kashmir that a quarter to a third of the budget goes to the military, it's because Pakistan is in the middle of a war, or do you think soldiers fight for free, and supply pays for itself? The military enjoys more power because it commit multiple coups, Kashmir has nothing to do with it. That last point about Pakistan spending a majority of it's energy and resources on Kashmir, that is completely and utterly false, and I challenge you to prove me otherwise (give me hard numbers).

I don't know where you got this information from, but it is pure anti-Pakistan propaganda.

 

[ito]

But, with the exception of the first one, none of that is actually true.

It isn't because of Kashmir that religious nuts exist in the country, it's because of the war in Afghanistan, and it's blowback. Similar story with being a security state. It's not because of Kashmir that a quarter to a third of the budget goes to the military, it's because Pakistan is in the middle of a war, or do you think soldiers fight for free, and supply pays for itself? The military enjoys more power because it commit multiple coups, Kashmir has nothing to do with it. That last point about Pakistan spending a majority of it's energy and resources on Kashmir, that is completely and utterly false, and I challenge you to prove me otherwise (give me hard numbers).

I don't know where you got this information from, but it is pure anti-Pakistan propaganda.

A simple point that all your Military expenditure is directed towards India is enough to debunk all your wrote. This is not me saying. Your military planner have said this time and again. 'our only enemy is India'...this is what they always say.

And on Kashmir, everyone knows that Pakistanis think the army is the guardian of their interests on Kashmir, so they enjoy disproportionate power. This sentiment of Pakistanis on Kashmir have also been used by religious nutjobs to justify their existence

Pakistan has always performed well, at times even better economically than India when it is under military rule.

The democratically elected politicians are a joke. If Zardari is democracy, we want millitary rule.

Even if Pakistan continues to spend on Kashmir at the same rate, it can continue to look after its people's welfare.

During the 80s Pakistan used to proudly boast that no one slept on the streets, at the same time then India was known as a land of beggars with only the Taj Mahal and some handicrafts to its credit.

Its India's obsession with Pakistan that has hurt it. During the period after 1971 and through the 80s, except for a response to Indian aggression on Siachen and during Operation Brasstacks, Pakistan could not be bothered with India. It was not on Pakistani people's minds.

India invited Pakistan's revenge in Indian Punjab due to its own mischief it created a decade ago in East Pakistan. Tit for tat.

But after your government rigged elections in 1987 in Kashmir the entire situation changed. The Kashmiris had voted in 1987 for pro-Pakistan and Muslim nationalist parties who wanted a plebiscite. But India rigged it in favour of their own stooge government.

The Kashmiri Muslim people had always wanted to join Pakistan and they intended to use democracy of India in peaceful means to achieve that outcome. But when the illusion of Indian democracy ended the Kashmiri Muslim people rose up and (initially) demanded to join Pakistan, and India responded by making it the most millitarsed region on Earth and started massacring and raping Kashmiri Muslims. Due to that thousands of Kashmiri Muslims fled to Azad Kashmir, even before the Pandit drama.

Even if I think that your argument is right in the past, it will not hold good in future for the simple fact that before eighties India economy was hardly 3 times Pakistan's, so Pakistan doesn't have to spend as much as it is now since Indian economy is almost 9 times Pakistan's. According to IMF, Indian economy will be 20 times Pakistan's by 2050. How would hold your ground fighting such large enemy?

 

[Apprentice]

And on Kashmir, everyone knows that Pakistanis think the army is the guardian of their interests on Kashmir, so they enjoy disproportionate power. This sentiment of Pakistanis on Kashmir have also been used by religious nutjobs to justify their existence

Pakistan's existence does not depend on Kashmir at all. Pakistan is based on an Islamic ideology. Kashmir was not used by any religious or political party as an issue until 1989 when India started its repression of Kashmiri Muslims. And these religious folk have been around for quite a time even before Kashmir became violent.

 

[Areesh]

Like always. Just claims and no substance by this joker @ito

 

[ito]

Pakistan's existence does not depend on Kashmir at all. Pakistan is based on an Islamic ideology. Kashmir was not used by any religious or political party as an issue until 1989 when India started its repression of Kashmiri Muslims. And these religious folk have been around for quite a time even before Kashmir became violent.

Pakistan existence does depend on Kashmir. The sole reason why Pakistan came into being was two nation theory. Kashmir being part of India debunks that theory and questions the sole reason for Pakistan's existence. No wonder Pakistan and Pakistanis are so obsessed with Kashmir.

 

[Major Sam]

While a good gesture by the MP, it isn't something groundbreaking.

Entire J&K including Pak occupied parts belongs to India as per the legal treaty between the Maharaja of Kashmir and Indian Govt.

Come and take it and be my guest.

 

[graphican]

A police constable in Mongolia has also stated the same. Now entire Kashmir population and stance of Pakistan aside, words of a constable and an MP mean everything to India.

 

[noksss]

What he said is bullsh!t. Looks like after failure and embarrassment with US congressman on F16 you have now bribed a UK MP to give you some feel good moments. After all the he is “friends of India” after taking bribe from you.

Good Analysis you guys should start bribeing a few UK MP's to sing your tune ........................................Oh wait even for that bribe amount you have to get US aid

 

[Areesh]

Good Analysis you guys should start bribeing a few UK MP's to sing your tune ........................................Oh wait even for that bribe amount you have to get US aid

No need. Just like in USA case ending would be favorable for Pakistan with India whining.

 

[Areesh]

Be careful what you wish for. This post could look real silly from you when we revisit this in the future, maybe 30 years from now

Waiting for 30 years? So till next 30 years you have no hope.

 

[Areesh]

Well 30 more years is how long I think it will take for Pakistanis to get civilized and realize that they are illegally occupying territory that legally belongs to India. Maybe I am being a little too optimistic, who knows

Always the optimist in me

You not being optimistic. You are being moronic.

Pakistan is occupying what it should have occupied and nothing would change in next 300 years in Pakistan about AJK and GB.

 

[xyxmt]

Oh damn, now we have to vacate it we have left with no choice

 

[Apprentice]

Pakistan existence does depend on Kashmir. The sole reason why Pakistan came into being was two nation theory. Kashmir being part of India debunks that theory and questions the sole reason for Pakistan's existence. No wonder Pakistan and Pakistanis are so obsessed with Kashmir.

Statements without substance, yet again.

The two nation theory has been affirmed by Islamic scripture. No practising Muslim lusts after Kashmir to prove that a prescription of Allah is correct.

 

[EAK]

Good Analysis you guys should start bribeing a few UK MP's to sing your tune ........................................Oh wait even for that bribe amount you have to get US aid

LOL.. you are using it nicely by the way..
India top recipient of US economic aid