J-11B vs Su-30MKI

[antonius123]

My idea, China could improve their J11 to J11Z, still can't beat Su-30MKI easily.
Their Su-30MK2 still the best air fighter they have.

Because Vietnam has SU-30 series?

Dont you remember how vietnam SU-30 powerless and lock by chineseJ-10A several times, that make vietnam then turn servant mode and send a official to Beijing to hear their master's orders.

Same way J31 is superior to F35 and J20 is superior to F22. Now happy?

You both are blind and bias in spite of evidence and explanation given to you.

technically true, but man is the main factor to won in a battle


J-11B will not apply any TVC....

TVC only help slightly during dogfight.

In BVR it can help nothing. AESA, lower RCS, superb BVRAAM rule.

 

[BoQ77]

Because Vietnam has SU-30 series?

Dont you remember how vietnam SU-30 powerless and lock by chineseJ-10A several times, that make vietnam then turn servant mode and send a official to Beijing to hear their master's orders.

.

Don't get what you mean? Vietnam and China, both have Su30, Su27 ...
And the your later sentence is meaningless in discussion.
Now China delegator just visit Vietnam for arrange the visit of Xi to Vietnam

 

[antonius123]

Don't get what you mean? Vietnam and China, both have Su30, Su27 ...
And the your later sentence is meaningless in discussion.
Now China delegator just visit Vietnam for arrange the visit of Xi to Vietnam

I mean your supa dupa 30MKK2 was locked by chinese J-10A several times before.

 

[BoQ77]

I mean your supa dupa 30MKK2 was locked by chinese J-10A several times before.

Where? in Spratly ?
I have no idea on this, never heard.

correct is Su30MK2V. What's J10A ?

Do you mean J10A much better than J11B ?

 

[antonius123]

Where? in Spratly ?
I have no idea on this, never heard.
correct is 30MK2. What's J10A ?

Do you mean J10A much better than J11B ?

J-11B is better than J-10A

J-11B > J-10A > SU30MK2

 

[BoQ77]

J-11B is better than J-10A

J-11B > J-10A > SU30MK2

I wonder why China order Su30MK2 at high price, while they tried their best to export J10A at very cheap price?

My order: Su30MKI > Su30MK2 > Su30MKK > Su27 > J-11A/B > J10B > J10A

 

[antonius123]

I wonder why China order Su30MK2 at high price, while they tried their best to export J10A at very cheap price?

My order: Su30MKI > Su30MK2 > Su30MKK > Su27 > J-11A/B > J10B > J10A

I've told you 30MK2 is striking fighter, J-11B is Air Superiority.
Now China has J-16 which is much more advanced than 30MK2, they are not interested anymore with 30MK2.
Now they have J-11D then they are not interested with SU-35 except the engine S117 only.

Your order is just your wishful thinking. PESA never win AESA esp with lower RCS (assuming pilot skill etc the same). I have explained a lot in this and previous pages.
Stop being ignorant.

Your 30MK has been locked many time by J-10A without ability to locate the J-10A position, it show 30MK performance is far bellow even J-10A leave alone the B version (J-10B and J-11B).
Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times

 

[BoQ77]

Your 30MK has been locked many time by J-10A without ability to locate the J-10A position, it show 30MK performance is far bellow even J-10A leave alone the B version (J-10B and J-11B).
Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times

Well The rumor written in 2011, I'm not sure how it could happen, where and howto?
They claimed the exercise with Thang Long ( 371? ) division in Southern of Vietnam, but as I know that since that time until this moment, there's no Su-30 in "Thang Long or 371 division" put in Southern region or near China border. And Thang Long received the first Su-30 in 2012

An air exercise between China and Vietnam is unlikely. See post #26 in the link, he said that fake news.

As your logic, if Vietnam realized J10A could defeat Su-30MK2 ( lol )
If your rumor is true, Vietnam must change to buy other type. But they didn't, they continue to order more and more Su-30MK2 since 2011.

We learn a fact that J-16 is clone of Su-30MKK.

 

[antonius123]

Well The rumor written in 2011, I'm not sure how it could happen, where and howto?
They claimed the exercise with Thang Long ( 371? ) division in Southern of Vietnam, but as I know that since that time until this moment, there's no Su-30 in "Thang Long or 371 division" put in Southern region or near China border. And Thang Long received the first Su-30 in 2012

An air exercise between China and Vietnam is unlikely. See post #26 in the link, he said that fake news.

This is your bad habit. You always consider your ignorance as truth.

If it never happen as you said then why there is such a conversation in that thread?

As your logic, if Vietnam realized J10A could defeat Su-30MK2 ( lol )
If your rumor is true, Vietnam must change to buy other type. But they didn't, they continue to order more and more Su-30MK2 since 2011.

Another your bad habit : logical fallacy.
If Vietnam doesnt buy Eurofighter Typhoon or Rafale, or SU-35 in order to balance China, it doesnt mean that they agree that their Su-30MK2 can handle J10A.

Vietnam will never be able to balance China AF power. she should approach either China or US.

We learn a fact that J-16 is clone of Su-30MKK.

That is not a learning, that is ignorance.
There are many advanced things on J-16 that Su-30MKK doesnt have. Why keep stubborn on ignorance?

 

[BoQ77]

This is your bad habit. You always consider your ignorance as truth.

If it never happen as you said then why there is such a conversation in that thread?

Let prove that it happens, I keep my right to doubt on it with my evidence.
At the time, there're only Su-30MK2V in 370 division, and it's not Thang Long

In 2011, there're only 12 Su30MK2V for 370 division, in Southern assigned to 935 Regiment
In June 2012, 371 ( Thang Long ) division receive first 3 of Su30MK2V assign to 923 Regiment ( in Middle land of Vietnam ). That means in June 2011, even June 2012, there aren't 4 plane of Su30 in Thang Long.
It could happen if China J10A was invited to 371 division in Southern of Vietnam for exercise in 2011. Or maybe exercise between J10A vs Su30 within China territory.

And an air exercise between Vietnam and China is unlikely. If any please provide the details

To me, there's little chance for J10 vs Su-30MK2V engaged in the same exercise in 2010-2011 ( maybe between PLAAF ). And the real life never proved the point of antonius, while Vietnam continue to order more and more Su-30. They didn't do so if they found Su-30 can't even beat J10A

What's conversation? Do you mean create a thread here, and everything on it come true?

Below rumor ( from antonius link ) was posted 5 July 2011
Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times

Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice. At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion.

See the location of Su-30 : 923 Regiment and 935 Regiment.
923 Regiment base atleast over 400 kilometers from China - Vietnam border.

 

[antonius123]

Let prove that it happens, I keep my right to doubt on it with my evidence.
At the time, there're only Su-30MK2V in 370 division, and it's not Thang Long

In 2011, there're only 12 Su30MK2V for 370 division, in Southern assigned to 935 Regiment
In June 2012, 371 ( Thang Long ) division receive first 3 of Su30MK2V assign to 923 Regiment ( in Middle land of Vietnam ). That means in June 2011, even June 2012, there aren't 4 plane of Su30 in Thang Long.
It could happen if China J10A was invited to 371 division in Southern of Vietnam for exercise in 2011. Or maybe exercise between J10A vs Su30 within China territory.

And an air exercise between Vietnam and China is unlikely. If any please provide the details

To me, there's little chance for J10 vs Su-30MK2V engaged in the same exercise in 2010-2011 ( maybe between PLAAF ). And the real life never proved the point of antonius, while Vietnam continue to order more and more Su-30. They didn't do so if they found Su-30 can't even beat J10A

What's conversation? Do you mean create a thread here, and everything on it come true?

Below rumor ( from antonius link ) was posted 5 July 2011
Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times

Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice. At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion.

See the location of Su-30 : 923 Regiment and 935 Regiment.
923 Regiment base atleast over 400 kilometers from China - Vietnam border.

That was not exercise between china and vietnam.
It could be vietnam own exercise intruded by China or china plane made thresspass then Vietnam most advanced a/c (SU-30) scramble.

923 regiment is not as far as you thought. Why vietnam will cramble old mig-21 to engage intruder?

In 2011, all Su-27s were transferred to 940 Fighter Training Regiment at Phu Cat, leaving only Su-30MK2Vs on 935 Fighter Regiment’s roster. From June 2011, 923 Fighter Bomber Regiment at Tho Xuan replaced its obsolete Su-22s with Su-30MK2Vs, with a dozen delivered. However, in early March 2012, one Su-30MK2V crashed during flight tests.
Vietnam - People's Air Force

 

[antonius123]

To me, there's little chance for J10 vs Su-30MK2V engaged in the same exercise in 2010-2011 ( maybe between PLAAF ). And the real life never proved the point of antonius, while Vietnam continue to order more and more Su-30. They didn't do so if they found Su-30 can't even beat J10A

You were talking as if Vietnam had many choices and luxuries?

There are many consideration in purchasing a/c fighter. It could be price, transfer technology, better packaged offer, compatibility with existing platform, spare part sharing etc.

Back to mid 2000, nobody expect China military technology will (or have) progress so fast - leap and bounce. Especially our Indian and Vietnam fellows who always look down upon China technology, and deepen by China's sun tzu strategy that hide her power (when she still weak). If you can recollect - China announced J-10A existence around 2008 while it had made first flight around 1998. So in mid 2000 your Air Force might not have identified thread like J-10A, leave alone J-10B/J-11B/J-11D. That could be one of the reason why Vietnam and Indian AF thought SU30MK will be good to balance China.

You need to remember that current China is not the same with China 30 years ago.
Now it not difficult to ponder that China electronic warfare technology has surpass Russia.

All Vietnam AF should do if she want to balance China is:

• make friend with China, or
  
• approach US, or
  
• buy F-22 in large number

 

[BoQ77]

That was not exercise between china and vietnam.
It could be vietnam own exercise intruded by China or china plane made thresspass then Vietnam most advanced a/c (SU-30) scramble.

923 regiment is not as far as you thought. Why vietnam will cramble old mig-21 to engage intruder?

In 2011, all Su-27s were transferred to 940 Fighter Training Regiment at Phu Cat, leaving only Su-30MK2Vs on 935 Fighter Regiment’s roster. From June 2011, 923 Fighter Bomber Regiment at Tho Xuan replaced its obsolete Su-22s with Su-30MK2Vs, with a dozen delivered.

1. All by guess? How could a J10A interfere an exercise of Vietnam in Southern of Vietnam at the time? in June 2011.
2. Explain me what's the Southern word in the post ?
I could tell you that, during 2011, Chinese media focus much on Vietnam Su-30MK2 ( first 12 for Southern ), Kanwa editor even said that Vietnam Su-30MK2 more modern than China Su-30,
and usual, we see Chinese netizens argued so much and find a way to make themselves feel safe by saying J-10A could beat Su-30Mk2. In the post they say kill ratio Su30 5:0 J10A ( in China exercise ). Same to the way they said that they know well about Kilo class submarines 10 year ago and they could easily handle more improved Kilo class subs that Vietnam just received 2013-2015.
That's Chinese style, I don't argue.

However, in early March 2012, one Su-30MK2V crashed during flight tests.
Vietnam - People's Air Force

Let me correct you that "this Su-30MK2" crashed in 2012 in Russia during flight test.
Vietnam media at the time doubt that aircraft belong to a batch for Vietnam, means during 2012 there's some Su-30 undelivered to Vietnam. So your highlight in blue text may not true.
923 Regiment, Thang Long division, received their first Su-30MK2 in 2012.

Su-30 Caught Fire Before Crash – Investigators
17:19 28/02/2012
MOSCOW, February 28 (RIA Novosti)

The crew of a Su-30 fighter that crashed earlier on Tuesday in Russia’s Far East reported an engine fire before the crash, a spokesman for the Main Military Investigative Directorate said.

The Su-30MK2 fighter jet crashed 130 km northeast of Komsomolsk-na-Amure during a post-construction test flight. Both pilots ejected safely, although one of them was hurt on landing.

“While executing acceleration to a maximum speed, the first pilot reported a fire in the right engine,” the spokesman said. “The flight controller immediately ordered the crew to eject.”

“The investigators are taking all necessary steps to establish the cause of the crash,” the official said.

The aircraft belonged to the Komsomolsk-na-Amure factory where Su-30s are manufactured.

The Russian military earlier said that the plane had been built for export.

Su-family fighters constitute the bulk of Russia's arms exports.

Variants of Su-30 Flanker fighters are in service with air forces in several foreign countries, including India, Indonesia, China, Algeria, Vietnam and Venezuela.

The last Su-30 for 2nd batch of 12 for 923 received at the beginning of 2013.

The third batch of 12 signed in 2013, and begin to deliver at the end of 2014

 

[antonius123]

1. All by guess? How could a J10A could interfere an exercise of Vietnam in Southern of Vietnam at the time? in June 2011.
2. Explain me what's the Southern word in the post ?
I could tell you that, during 2011, Chinese media focus much on Vietnam Su-30MK2 ( first 12 for Southern ), Kanwa editor even said that Vietnam Su-30MK2 more modern than China Su-30,
and usual, we see Chinese netizens argued so much and find a way to make themselves feel safe by saying J-10A could beat Su-30Mk2. In the post they say kill ratio Su30 5:0 J10A ( in China exercise ). Same to the way they said that they know well about Kilo class submarines 10 year ago and they could easily handle more improved Kilo class subs that Vietnam just received 2013-2015.
That's Chinese style, I don't argue.



Let me correct you that "this Su-30MK2" crashed in 2012 in Russia during flight test.
Vietnam media at the time doubt that aircraft belong to a batch for Vietnam, means during 2012 there's some Su-30 undelivered to Vietnam. So your highlight in blue text may not true.
923 Regiment, Thang Long division, received their first Su-30MK2 in 2012.


The last Su-30 for 2nd batch of 12 for 923 received at the beginning of 2013.

The third batch of 12 signed in 2013, and begin to deliver at the end of 2014

Hey, it is you who do guessing here.

Have you read mine and my citation ( Vietnam - People's Air Force )? it is crystal clear that the plane is not from south, su30 at 923th is not in 2012 but in june 2011. I give you evidence not guess like yours. Your explanation about 2012 is merely your own guess, how come guess win over fact? No wonder people call you ignorant.

And what facts that make you think SU-30MK could beat J-10A? even J-10B/J-11B other than your guess/belief?

 

[BoQ77]

Hey, it is you who do guessing here.

Have you read mine? it is crystal clear that the plane is not from south.

What's the plane? "Chinese plane" or Vietnamese plane"?
Based on your knowledge and imaginary ability, let tell me in what situation a J10A could interfere Vietnam Su-30MK2 exercise in June 2011?