ITS TIME THE PAF MOVED ON from F16 SYMBOL

[Storm Force]

For most PDF members the F16 represents the symbol of PAF AND has done so since 1990.

When the first 40 planes arrived 21 years ago THEY GAVE THE IAF a real fright so much so that the indians ordered over 200 fighters in response ie mig29 mig23 & mirage2000.

The F16 legacy has been built on massive one sided victories by the ISRAELIS in partcular over arab mig air forces has led many to believe that WITH THE F16 FIGHTING FALCONS. you are invincible and safe.

UNFORTUNATELY

its not true.

THE F16 is only as good as the support and after sales service and WAR TIME support that you can get off the AMERICANS.

Israel is a near 100% american equipped air power. THEY ARE GURANTEED USA spares real time intel and weapons during war time. MAKING both their F16 & F15 very potent planes.

THE SAME SUPPORT wud go to japan or indeed south KOREA and even TAIWAN. by USA they would back them allies to the hilt.

FOR PAKISTAN this is not the case.

THE WAY relations have been falling NOT just now but ever since 2001 I,M amazed that PAF has made a huge FINANCIAL BLUNDER and stil,committed £3 billion to the F16 programme.

FOR PAF stil today their F16 is stil the main answer to the SU30MKI mirage2000 & mig29 THREAT.

yet the americans will never provide spares, REAL TIME INTEL, more fighters in any war with india.

EG.

KARGIL.

in reports after KARGIL the then ACM of PAF admitted in 1999 all but 13 F16s where grounded due to spares. IAF MIRAGE2000 had virtually a F16 free war zone. HENCE THE NON PAF showinmg in the conflict.

IF the recent tension at diplomatic level continues wat chance that PAF will get another 18 block 52S or wat chance the all the 44x MLU will be delivered.

AND MORE IMPORTANTLY WAT GURANTEE THAT IN SOME FUTURE 2014 kick off with IAF that all 63 F16s wont be sanctioned again due to HUGE INDIAN DIPLOMATIC % ECONOMIC pressure.

Surely the resources regardless if its grant aid FROM USA or not should go to a sanction free option.

COULD PAF learn from INDIAN MMRCA decsion and IAF gamble to pay 50% more for typhoon or rafael rather than face future AMERICAN whimps of sanctions at a moments notice on their battle proven F18 super hornets & F16/70 as promised to india

 

[Birbal]

I love how I often see statements like "Let's send some F-16s to show the Americans not to mess with us."

 

[Storm Force]

Birbal those F16s are a poison chalice.

The indians where very critical in mmrca race REGARDING usa insistence that IF F18 OR F16 was chosen the COMMINICATION equipment had to be linked to USA central command FOR wat they CALL " INTER OPERATABLE " survlliance and comminication.

ALL USA fighters sold abroad have these including PAF F16s

IN INDIA case this made them a non starter

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I reckon you think Pakistan Engineering and our Intelligence is idiotic as anything US has faced before

a) Firstly our force is not just F16 , we have 300 planes (Mirages and Chinese fighters) loaded with Missiles bombs and radars
b) Secondly , we also have AWACS which provide enough of REAL-TIME information to pilots
c) Thirdly we now have JF17 thunders , also hooked up with AWACS platform

Not to mention SD-10 BVR missile as staple weapon on our fighters

F16 is capable plane yes you are correct that eventually we might move away

But we are not anticipating any war , so there is no major rush

Kirgil while it may have been viewed as a Bollywood movie worthy epic fight , it was what you call a minor scrimmage, and caused by miscommunication , as there was a border marking and due to snow ppl crossed the line and it resulted in miscommunication about matters

 

[Birbal]

I reckon you think Pakistan Engineering and our Intelligence is idiotic as anything US has faced before

a) Firstly our force is not just F16 , we have 300 planes (Mirages and Chinese fighters) loaded with Missiles bombs and radars
b) Secondly , we also have AWACS which provide enough of REAL-TIME information to pilots
c) Thirdly we now have JF17 thunders , also hooked up with AWACS platform

Not to mention SD-10 BVR missile as staple weapon on our fighters

F16 is capable plane yes you are correct that eventually we might move away

But we are not anticipating any war , so there is no major rush

Kirgil while it may have been viewed as a Bollywood movie worthy epic fight , it was what you call a minor scrimmage, and caused by miscommunication , as there was a border marking and due to snow ppl crossed the line and it resulted in miscommunication about matters

He's not saying Pakistan should ditch the F-16s in its inventory, or that it is reliant on them. All he is saying is that the F-16 should not be the main symbol of the PAF, which it currently is.

 

[Storm Force]

AZAD,

I JUST THINK the $3 billion that PAF is spending on 18 F16/52 + UPGRADE to 44 MORE will be a massive waste of resources.

RELATIONS with USA are very unclear in the future. THERE are many in USA advocating alsorts of actions against pakistan.

PAKISTAN has and have brought french equioment like scorpene and surely a purchase of 40 rafael at $3.5 billion would be more secure and offer more fire power and longevity than 18 block 52 & 44 F16 MLU.

OR

a quick as you people call EMERGENCY SUPPLY OF 60 J10 at under $2 billion.

I THINK THE F16 will be redundant or no where near as effective as F16 elswhere where USA support is GURANTEED.

IT WILL LEAVE A BIG HOLE in your preparation and planning

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well there is noting technically wrong with F16 in all honesty ...

But in case you missed the last 15 years we already have JF17 thunder which is turning out to be a far more capable plane then F16 ever was ... and its still developing into a even better fighter

So the notion that F16 is all that we dream of is not precise , some what correct but we have moved on but if we can buy a F16 manufacturing plant that would be a ideal situation for Pakistan

We don't need F35 or anything we need to buy the company that makes these planes and move it to Pakistan

I always favor a relation where US company deals with Pakistan on regular basis , and jobs are saved in US , and also we meet our defensive needs

If F16 company or branch is being closed in 3-4 years or 6 years its better that we purchase this company and move the operations to Pakistan or just work with the company directly

a) It creates jobs in US
b) We keep F16 running in top shape

We should have had a deal like US had with Turkey from start

US upgrades its planes because
a) New planes mean new work for engineers
b) New planes mean old planes will be sold and then even more people get jobs from that role

Pakistan is different - we don't need a brand new plane every 5 years ... and F16 is wonderful asset for our national defense

Sure , we would love to have that company manufacture parts in Pakistan and that is the direction we should consider taking as a option plus working on JF17 and J10B

For now the F16 serve their purpose

a) NUKE any intruder and keep skies safe for good 10 years

After 10 years we probbly would have 2000 JF17 thunder/ J10B and abundance of parts

There is really no urgency at all we are just working on a 10 year plan to modernize forces
and expensive financial black holes like F35 don't fit the budget

2 F16 and 1 JF17 thunder is good as a F35

 

[Imran Khan]

i got it storm force start this thread after someone comment on another thread (PAF mirage-3-5 capabilities) abut india waste money on mirages so he satisfy his ego now by showing PAF also wasting his money on f-16 and its upgrades .simply vs thread MODs should shut this door .lolz

bachy tum jinta bacha humy samjhty ho hum itny hain nhi kassam se

 

[Imran Khan]

and BTW storm force we don't have money we are smaller then india in economy in size and even geo political size .so simply we can not compete with india with fighter by fighter or in numbers .we are happy with 18 new and we have better option for replace mirages migs with jf-17 .our simple goal is defend our land and we are doing it well .as per heavy modern fighter i will say sorry these are beyond then our current range and we are simply not interested in them because we can't afford them . we already waste our huge resources in this damn arms race in past 65 years

 

[Manticore]

stop posting the same argument in every single post you contribute to this forum-- be realistic , f16 will remain a symbol for paf as long as jft blk2 and j10b dont get inducted -- paf has been stung once and it wont put all eggs in one basket for future battles -- thats the main reason why we reduced the 75 blk52 deal to only 18 alongwith spares and diverted the funds to j10 -- the 18 blk52 deal was sweet as we not only got hitech stuff to test alongwith our own fighters plus we got an upgradation of our existing f16s fleet plus bvr capability

the french also delayed our mirages during kargil aswell as not to mention how they backstepped from the jft avionics deal -- why would paf in there right minds invest in rafale?