Israel's (Proxy) War against Iran

[Zyxius]

I don't like coffee. But we are first Pakistanis then Muslims. We are Pakistani Muslims not Muslim Pakistanis. We look first at our national interest and then our religious interest.
This is an extremely biased view, Israel is not the most hateful entity in the world. As to what you said "for you people to ... than them", what about, say, India, as an example.
They don't have operations against Iran because Iran is in itself a state that tries to hurt Israel.
And if you think America is a bad ally, what about Iran? They should be considered one of our worst enemies.

And as to what you were saying about your thread name being changed, Israel is not synonymous with Jews. Being Jew doesn't mean you are Israeli and vice versa just like being (for example) Pakistan or Bengali or Turkish or Afghani doesn't mean you are necessarily a Muslim.

That is seriously disgusting man. You need to study a little bit more about what Israel is doing to the Palestinians...and if you don't believe in religion...then you should at least believe in human rights. Iran is not trying to hurt Israel...please show where this is happening. Conversely, Israel is trying to hurt Iran...there is plenty of proof of that.

Disgusting cheer-leading man...you people need to state your values and see if this nonsense you keep talking doesn't conflict with your darling view of secularism. Israel is a Jewish state. You are against an Islamic state...but you support the Jewish state huh....that is totally disgusting. I'm sorry...but I would not want to be a co-citizen of a country with people who hold these views. This is a conflict that will take place in Pakistan for sure between these two conflicting ideologies....cheerleading for foreigners....or have dignity in ourselves.

 

[Zyxius]

He doesn't and neither do you.

I live in Pakistan. I moved here from Toronto which is why it says Toronto in my profile...but I live in Karachi and am a die-hard patriotic Pakistani...which is why I moved back and will stay here through thick and thin.

 

[x_man]

Please point out where I have blamed all our difficulties on the Americans or Israelis. I simply said they can never be true allies. You want to misquote in order to make your case to be a
cheerleader...go ahead.

Also, please tell me how the US has helped us in education, or in industry, or in fdi. More than the US, it is the UAE, Saudi and our neighboring Arab countries who have put in more than the US. You want to start listing the FDI investments in the last 2 years? You dont know what you're talking about. The US has never been a true ally to Pakistan and a transaction based relationship is no alliance...we still end up getting the raw end of the deal every time.

Just keep in mind that if you are in the US and they suspect you of anything, even wrongly, you have no rights.....that is your ally. Its your ally that is threatening military action against us. And you will probably say "We deserve it".

Do you live in Pakistan?

Does it really matter where I live or where you live? Or to be a patriotic Pakistani, do I have to live in Pakistan? Well, it will be a long useless discussion and let’s not get into it…

In your post you made such a hue and cry about as America dumped us on the prom night….The sooner you understand that we are its ally in need, the better you will feel…If they benefited from us , so as we…its an alliance of convenience and will remain to be same..….

I admit that they used us in the past and still using it, but the question is why are we letting them use us?? Is it also their fault ?

 

[JK!]

That is seriously disgusting man. You need to study a little bit more about what Israel is doing to the Palestinians...and if you don't believe in religion...then you should at least believe in human rights. Iran is not trying to hurt Israel...please show where this is happening. Conversely, Israel is trying to hurt Iran...there is plenty of proof of that.

Disgusting cheer-leading man...you people need to state your values and see if this nonsense you keep talking doesn't conflict with your darling view of secularism. Israel is a Jewish state. You are against an Islamic state...but you support the Jewish state huh....that is totally disgusting. I'm sorry...but I would not want to be a co-citizen of a country with people who hold these views. This is a conflict that will take place in Pakistan for sure between these two conflicting ideologies....cheerleading for foreigners....or have dignity in ourselves.

You definitely need to calm down.

For your benefit I will state my values then which can be summed up in a quote by Malcolm X:

“You’re not to be so blind with patriotism that you can’t face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”

Therefore I am against human rights abuses by the state of Israel and for that matter who isn't.

But I accept that it exists and not every Israeli supports their countries foreign policy. The recent attacks in the west bank against farmers only came to light because of cameras provided by an Israeli human rights group.

Furthermore I live in the UK there are around 1 milllion muslims here and they live very comfortably without persecution some even claim benefits and dole money of the government to sustain their living.

On the whole I disagree with most of your views though I agree with some.

 

[Awesome]

Its sad to see that one of the moderators changed the title of my thread from the Jews' (Proxy) War against Iran to Israel's (Proxy) War against Iran. It is sad because now even Pakistanis are pandering to this crazy obsession with avoiding the truth and never mentioning the word JEW. It is all over the US and European media....so why Defense.pk is censoring the word JEW is beyond me and frankly disappointing in the extreme. Israel is an enemy to all Muslims...and you people should wake up and smell the coffee.

We were Americas little lap dog during the Soviet Invasion and they left us holding the bag and ran away. They have never been allies to us...they equip India, sell us F16s and then send us wheat instead, and they constantly threaten us. They dont care about our local considerations, they are threatening to take unilateral action in our borders, they support Jundullah in their terrorist operations against Iran....what kind of alliance is this? They dont behave this way with the UK, or Canada because that is a genuine alliance which they will never have with us. For you people to even consider Israel is insane....nobody hates us more than them. And if you think America is a bad ally....then you should think very carefully about making an ally about the most hateful entity in the world today...Israel.

Oh shush...

I simply changed it because whatever you posted makes sense for ISRAEL. Do you even know any jews in real life? There are regular office going, middle class jews as well. Now Israel's proxy war can make some sense and its your opinion so I'll let you have it.

I hate the racist westerners who club all muslims as terrorists. You'd be no better if you club all jews into your global conspiracy theory.

 

[Zyxius]

Oh shush...

I simply changed it because whatever you posted makes sense for ISRAEL. Do you even know any jews in real life? There are regular office going, middle class jews as well. Now Israel's proxy war can make some sense and its your opinion so I'll let you have it.

I hate the racist westerners who club all muslims as terrorists. You'd be no better if you club all jews into your global conspiracy theory.

I know plenty of Jews with whom I am friends and they are aware of my point of view. I employ Jews in Canada and have a Jewish lawyer as well as other Jews to whom I contract work. I reven received a high ranking member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Pakistan and showed him around for a few days despite the fact that the Interior Ministry was up my A$$. I consider his organization to be one of the biggest killers of Muslims around the world...but I still did it because its not blind intolerance...but educated and well thought out interaction and engagement that matters.

I don't have any issue with Jews per say, but the title of my thread was meant for a specific shock effect because I believe many Jews have a dual loyalty issue with Israel and the Jewish-Americans are a potent lobby that drive US policy towards Israel....this is a well known fact. There are plenty who speak up and say they are not against Israel, but then there are plenty who are pushing their own governments to blindly support Israel's aggression towards its neighbors despite the fact that many of these Jews are not Israeli. So it is a Jewish thing...but that does not mean that all Jews are "in on it". Its not all Jews and its not a conspiracy...its politics and its a reality.

I still think the moderators should not have changed the title of my thread. That is biased censorship and its pandering to the wrong crowd....we are Pakistanis.....Iman, Tawqa and Jihad Fee Sabilillah (Pakistan Army Motto)

 

[nitesh]

I know plenty of Jews with whom I am friends and they are aware of my point of view. I employ Jews in Canada and have a Jewish lawyer as well as other Jews to whom I contract work. I don't have any issue with Jews per say, but the title of my thread was meant for a specific shock effect because I believe many Jews have a dual loyalty issue with Israel and the Jewish-Americans are a potent lobby that drive US policy towards Israel....this is a well known fact. There are plenty who speak up and say they are not against Israel, but then there are plenty who are pushing their own governments to blindly support Israel's aggression towards its neighbors despite the fact that many of these Jews are not Israeli. So it is a Jewish thing...but that does not mean that all Jews are "in on it". Its not all Jews and its not a conspiracy...its politics and its a reality.

I still think the moderators should not have changed the title of my thread. That is biased censorship and its pandering to the wrong crowd....we are Pakistanis.....Iman, Tawqa and Jihad Fee Sabilillah (Pakistan Army Motto)

So, by your logic muslim living outside the particular country (to be attacked by US/Israel) should not have an view against it.

 

[Zyxius]

So, by your logic muslim living outside the particular country (to be attacked by US/Israel) should not have an view against it.

What are you talking about? And where do you get this from?

 

[nitesh]

What are you talking about? And where do you get this from?

Logic is simple, as per you a jew which is living in US is having a view to support attacking the iran is a proxy war against muslims. So the rule rule can be applied to muslims that they should not a view against the attack or else it is a proxy war against jews.

 

[Zyxius]

It is a fact that many Jewish American lobbyists and citizens are pushing the US into attacking Iran because they feel that Iran is a threat to Israel. If they are going to do that because of the fact that they are Jewish and therefore take this position on account of their Jewishness, then it should be plain and open for all Americans to see that fact and nobody should be called an "anti-semite" because they make state that fact. Rep Richard Moran of Virginia was blasted as a racist and Anti-semite because he stated this fact. This should not be the case.

Whether a Jewish American should push the US into wars to defend Israel based solely on their religious sentiment towards that country is a question that Americans need to answer for themselves...but I think transparency is in order and the facts need to be stated. I personally don't think that a Muslim American should push America into a war based simply on his religious considerations because I think Americans would resent that and it would cause a backlash against Muslims...just as the current scenario is causing a backlash against Jews.

What makes it worse is that they are pushing America into wars that are to the detriment of the average American only to defend Israel and when any American criticizes this they use smear tactics to stifle debate on this issue. If they want the war with Iran...they should let Israel fight the battle and let the US stay out of it. That way Israel and Iran can settle this between themselves and the Israeli's don't have to be reasonable because they won't have the unbridled military power of the US to back them up unconditionally.

 

[Majnun]

America can't go into war with any country right now, though, can they? They are already overstretched in Iraq and Afghanistan, they are economically troubled (but look like improving), their standing in the world has gone down just slightly, they can't afford war with another country, even if that country is just Iran.
It isn't Israel's Proxy War Against Iran its Iran's War Against Israel.
And, as I have stated before, I feel Pakistan should back Israel on this issue, and move whole-heartedly against Iran. Israel dislikes us (maybe), but Iranis hate Pakistan and actually help the Baloch insurgencies.
Pakistan cannnot be allied with Iran, due to the Iranis' own attitude towards Pakistan.
You keep calling Israel a Jewish state, Zyxius, but, as I have mentioned to you numerous times, in such dealings religion shouldn't matter. Israel is not the Jewish state now, its Israel. If a country of Palestine was made, you wouldn't call it the Muslim state or something.