What's new

Israel Responded to an Unprovoked Attack by Hizbullah, Right? Wrong

A.Rahman

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
4,728
Reaction score
0
Country
Pakistan
Location
Canada
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Israel Responded to an Unprovoked Attack by Hizbullah, Right? Wrong [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

uploaded 09 Aug 2006

[/FONT]

The assault on Lebanon was premeditated - the soldiers' capture simply provided the excuse. It was also unnecessary

by George Monbiot


Whatever we think of Israel's assault on Lebanon, all of us seem to agree about one fact: that it was a response, however disproportionate, to an unprovoked attack by Hizbullah. I repeated this "fact" in my last column, when I wrote that "Hizbullah fired the first shots". This being so, the Israeli government's supporters ask peaceniks like me, what would you have done? It's an important question. But its premise, I have now discovered, is flawed.

Since Israel's withdrawal from southern Lebanon in May 2000, there have been hundreds of violations of the "blue line" between the two countries. The United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (Unifil) reports that Israeli aircraft crossed the line "on an almost daily basis" between 2001 and 2003, and "persistently" until 2006. These incursions "caused great concern to the civilian population, particularly low-altitude flights that break the sound barrier over populated areas". On some occasions, Hizbullah tried to shoot them down with anti-aircraft guns.

In October 2000, the Israel Defence Forces shot at unarmed Palestinian demonstrators on the border, killing three and wounding 20. In response, Hizbullah crossed the line and kidnapped three Israeli soldiers. On several occasions, Hizbullah fired missiles and mortar rounds at IDF positions, and the IDF responded with heavy artillery and sometimes aerial bombardment. Incidents like this killed three Israelis and three Lebanese in 2003; one Israeli soldier and two Hizbullah fighters in 2005; and two Lebanese people and three Israeli soldiers in February 2006. Rockets were fired from Lebanon into Israel several times in 2004, 2005 and 2006, on some occasions by Hizbullah. But, the UN records, "none of the incidents resulted in a military escalation".

On May 26 this year, two officials of Islamic Jihad - Nidal and Mahmoud Majzoub - were killed by a car bomb in the Lebanese city of Sidon. This was widely assumed in Lebanon and Israel to be the work of Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency. In June, a man named Mahmoud Rafeh confessed to the killings and admitted that he had been working for Mossad since 1994. Militants in southern Lebanon responded, on the day of the bombing, by launching eight rockets into Israel. One soldier was lightly wounded. There was a major bust-up on the border, during which one member of Hizbullah was killed and several wounded, and one Israeli soldier wounded. But while the border region "remained tense and volatile", Unifil says it was "generally quiet" until July 12.

There has been a heated debate on the internet about whether the two Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hizbullah that day were captured in Israel or in Lebanon, but it now seems pretty clear that they were seized in Israel. This is what the UN says, and even Hizbullah seems to have forgotten that they were supposed to have been found sneaking around the outskirts of the Lebanese village of Aita al-Shaab. Now it simply states that "the Islamic resistance captured two Israeli soldiers at the border with occupied Palestine". Three other Israeli soldiers were killed by the militants. There is also some dispute about when, on July 12, Hizbullah first fired its rockets; but Unifil makes it clear that the firing took place at the same time as the raid - 9am. Its purpose seems to have been to create a diversion. No one was hit.

But there is no serious debate about why the two soldiers were captured: Hizbullah was seeking to exchange them for the 15 prisoners of war taken by the Israelis during the occupation of Lebanon and (in breach of article 118 of the third Geneva convention) never released. It seems clear that if Israel had handed over the prisoners, it would - without the spillage of any more blood - have retrieved its men and reduced the likelihood of further kidnappings. But the Israeli government refused to negotiate. Instead - well, we all know what happened instead. Almost 1,000 Lebanese and 33 Israeli civilians have been killed so far, and a million Lebanese displaced from their homes.

On July 12, in other words, Hizbullah fired the first shots. But that act of aggression was simply one instance in a long sequence of small incursions and attacks over the past six years by both sides. So why was the Israeli response so different from all that preceded it? The answer is that it was not a reaction to the events of that day. The assault had been planned for months.

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that "more than a year ago, a senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations, on an off-the-record basis, to US and other diplomats, journalists and thinktanks, setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail". The attack, he said, would last for three weeks. It would begin with bombing and culminate in a ground invasion. Gerald Steinberg, professor of political science at Bar-Ilan University, told the paper that "of all of Israel's wars since 1948, this was the one for which Israel was most prepared ... By 2004, the military campaign scheduled to last about three weeks that we're seeing now had already been blocked out and, in the last year or two, it's been simulated and rehearsed across the board".

A "senior Israeli official" told the Washington Post that the raid by Hizbullah provided Israel with a "unique moment" for wiping out the organisation. The New Statesman's editor, John Kampfner, says he was told by more than one official source that the US government knew in advance of Israel's intention to take military action in Lebanon. The Bush administration told the British government.

Israel's assault, then, was premeditated: it was simply waiting for an appropriate excuse. It was also unnecessary. It is true that Hizbullah had been building up munitions close to the border, as its current rocket attacks show. But so had Israel. Just as Israel could assert that it was seeking to deter incursions by Hizbullah, Hizbullah could claim - also with justification - that it was trying to deter incursions by Israel. The Lebanese army is certainly incapable of doing so. Yes, Hizbullah should have been pulled back from the Israeli border by the Lebanese government and disarmed. Yes, the raid and the rocket attack on July 12 were unjustified, stupid and provocative, like just about everything that has taken place around the border for the past six years. But the suggestion that Hizbullah could launch an invasion of Israel or that it constitutes an existential threat to the state is preposterous. Since the occupation ended, all its acts of war have been minor ones, and nearly all of them reactive.

So it is not hard to answer the question of what we would have done. First, stop recruiting enemies, by withdrawing from the occupied territories in Palestine and Syria. Second, stop provoking the armed groups in Lebanon with violations of the blue line - in particular the persistent flights across the border. Third, release the prisoners of war who remain unlawfully incarcerated in Israel. Fourth, continue to defend the border, while maintaining the diplomatic pressure on Lebanon to disarm Hizbullah (as anyone can see, this would be much more feasible if the occupations were to end). Here then is my challenge to the supporters of the Israeli government: do you dare to contend that this programme would have caused more death and destruction than the current adventure has done?

Source: Guardian
[/FONT]
 
.
Planned for months? It may have been a contigency plan the Israelis executed but this got to be the worst clusterfucked op in Israeli history if all the prep work they've done was to sit on their butts. I would expect at least an entire corps being on standby if this was planned for months.
 
.
Officer of Engineers said:
Planned for months? It may have been a contigency plan the Israelis executed but this got to be the worst clusterfucked op in Israeli history if all the prep work they've done was to sit on their butts.
LOL. The most telling thing I've heard from an Israeli Officer is that, they expected to fight insurgents and instead found themselves fighting a 'regular Iranian division'"
 
.
Officer of Engineers said:
Planned for months? It may have been a contigency plan the Israelis executed but this got to be the worst clusterfucked op in Israeli history if all the prep work they've done was to sit on their butts. I would expect at least an entire corps being on standby if this was planned for months.

I think they thought they could destroy Hezbollah from the air and artillery. The airstrikes were very well planned but the ground offensive is something that seems to have been done on the fly.

Why is it sometimes (Serbia, Afghansitan, Gulf war) airpower was able to effectively destroy or severly weaken the opponent but in this case ground troops have to be used.
 
.
sigatoka said:
Why is it sometimes (Serbia, Afghansitan, Gulf war) airpower was able to effectively destroy or severly weaken the opponent but in this case ground troops have to be used.

It's quotes like this that proves you know squat about military affairs!



[Mod Edit: No need to launch a personal attack here. He probably doesn't know as much as you do which is why he raised, what seems to be a simple 'question'. You could have simply explained it to him]
 
. .
sigatoka said:
Why is it sometimes (Serbia, Afghansitan, Gulf war) airpower was able to effectively destroy or severly weaken the opponent but in this case ground troops have to be used.

Let me try and explain in my capacity to do so. In other scenarios that you have mentioned, airpower was mostly successful because of targets being distinct, mostly amassed armour and identifiable positions of the opposing force (Serba, GulfWar) as well as hideouts (Afghanistan).

In this case (Lebanon), the problem for the Israeli Airforce is that the Hezbollah fighters usually need just one-room type of space to setup a tripod stand, mount a Katyusha rocket, launch it, disassemble the tripod and then melt away in the surrounding areas. No matter what number of buildings they target from the air, the rocket systems are highly mobile and so Hezbollah's ability to launch rockets has hardly been effected at all.

Israel realized that and so now the ground troops are needed to implement the evolved strategy which is to push Hezbollah back inside Lebanon enough to minimize the effectiveness of their rockets by putting them out of range of much of northern Israel.
 
.
Officer of Engineers said:
It's quotes like this that proves you know squat about military affairs!



[Mod Edit: No need to launch a personal attack here. He probably doesn't know as much as you do which is why he raised, what seems to be a simple 'question'. You could have simply explained it to him]

who edited this ?

please post your name too, in the edited by section......
 
.
The blood bath given to Israelis by empty handed HizbAllah is an eye opener for the Arabs syrians and Jordanians and egyptians. they should wake up now.
 
. .
Israel To Expand War, Hizbollah Issues Warning
Reuters
Thu, 10 Aug 2006, 01:21


Israel decided on Aug. 9 to expand its ground offensive in Lebanon, and Hizbollah’s leader vowed to turn southern Lebanon into a graveyard for Israeli troops and unleash more rockets on the city of Haifa.

With world powers divided on a U.N. resolution to try to end the 4-week-old war, at least 11 Israeli soldiers were reported killed in fighting with Hizbollah guerrillas.

"You won’t be able to stay in our land, and if you come in, we’ll force you out, we will turn our precious southern land into a graveyard for the invading Zionists," Hizbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said in a televised speech.

"We want an end to all the aggression but if there must be a showdown, then we welcome a showdown in the field."

He warned Arab residents of Haifa to leave to avoid being hurt by Hizbollah rocket attacks on the Israeli city.

Israeli television and Lebanese witnesses said armored columns were moving into southern Lebanon under cover of intensive artillery fire. The Israeli army said the push was to quell Hizbollah rocket fire from the town of al-Khiam and would not go beyond the current area of military operations.

Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s security cabinet authorized a plan to send troops further, possibly to the Litani river, up to 20 kilometers (13 miles) from the border. A senior political source said the expanded offensive could last 30 days.

U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Israel had a right to defend itself from Hizbollah but that Washington was very concerned about the humanitarian situation and Israel "must take the utmost care" to avoid civilian casualties.

The Israeli move could complicate U.N. diplomacy to halt the fighting, though Western diplomats said Israeli officials had assured them the army was prepared to halt the wider campaign within days if an agreement was reached at the United Nations.

There has been mounting domestic pressure in Israel to strike harder against Hizbollah, which has proved unexpectedly resilient against the Middle East’s most sophisticated army.

A Tel Aviv University poll showed 93 percent of Israelis believed the campaign in Lebanon was justified, and 91 percent backed the air strikes even if they destroyed Lebanese infrastructure and inflicted suffering on civilians.

“COSMETICS”
Diplomats are still working on a U.N. resolution aimed at ending the war but no Security Council vote seems imminent.

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Welch held talks in Beirut as part of efforts to win agreement for such a resolution, but appeared to have made little headway.

"All he is carrying is cosmetics for what remains a very ugly resolution," Lebanon’s Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, a key Shiite politician and Hizbollah ally, said after talks with Welch, who also met Prime Minister Fouad Siniora twice.

Lebanon wants an immediate ceasefire and a quick pullout of Israeli troops from the south, where it says 15,000 Lebanese soldiers backed by U.N. peacekeepers can move in.

Nasrallah said an initial draft resolution that did not call for an immediate Israeli withdrawal was "unjust and oppressive and gives the Israelis more than they wanted and demanded."

The United States and France differ on when an international force, expected to be led by France, should move in and when Israel should withdraw. Israel says it will only withdraw when a foreign force and the Lebanese army take over to keep Hizbollah at bay, and the United States backs this position.

"The operating principle is that you don’t want to leave a vacuum in southern Lebanon," McCormack said. "You don’t hand the keys back to the terrorists who started all of this."

French President Jacques Chirac threatened to introduce his own resolution if no compromise was reached but said he hoped there could still be an agreement.

"I can’t imagine that there would be no solution ... which would be the most immoral result, that we accept the current situation and that we abandon an immediate ceasefire," he said.

At least 1,005 people in Lebanon and 101 Israelis have been killed in four weeks of bloodshed which erupted when Hizbollah seized two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid on July 12.

Israeli forces pushed deeper into parts of Lebanon despite fierce Hizbollah resistance, Lebanese security sources said.

The sources said four Israeli soldiers had been killed in a rocket attack in the village of Aita al-Shaab and seven more died when Hizbollah blew up a booby-trapped house near the village of Debel, 5 kilometers (3 miles) from the border.

Al Jazeera TV said 15 Israeli soldiers were killed. Lebanese sources said at least three Hizbollah fighters had also been killed in the clashes. Israel’s army had no immediate comment.

Israeli planes bombed targets across Lebanon. Five people died in a raid in the Bekaa Valley town of Mashghara, medics said. Two people, including an 11-year-old boy, were killed in air strikes on a Palestinian refugee camp near Sidon.

More rockets hit northern Israel and four landed in the occupied West Bank. No casualties were reported.

Israel is also pressing on with an offensive in the Gaza Strip after a soldier was seized in June. A helicopter gunship fired into a Palestinian militant training camp in the Gaza Strip on Aug. 9, killing two gunmen and a girl.
 
.
parihaka said:
Hey Sig! Get the feeling you've failed to impress the Colonel?:coffee:

Your right, but the Colonel also failed to impress me by failing to reply.
 
.
Officer of Engineers said:
[Mod Edit: No need to launch a personal attack here. He probably doesn't know as much as you do which is why he raised, what seems to be a simple 'question'. You could have simply explained it to him]

No, he obviosusly knows nothing. But he pretends to know more than I do. A simple question? Not likely, he was spewing his famous knowledge to shine for all to bow before him. Horse pucky and horse pucky smells better.

Airpower has won only ONE war in history, the Kosovo War and that's ONLY because Milosevic chickened out. The much vaunted airpower managed to destroy all of 12 pieces of Yugoslav equipment and somehow, a Russian armoured company managed to go all the way from Bosnia to Pristina. By best estimates, the 3rd Yugoslav Army in Kosovo was reduced by 20%. Realistic estimates said 5%. The 3JA was neither cut off nor was it killed.

In every other war he listed, there was a ground fight and a big one at that.

In the Kuwait War, the Battles of Kuwait City Airport, 73 Easting, Medina Ridge, not to mention Al Khafji where the Iraqis even mounted an offensive. Yeah, right, airpower won that war.

In Afghanistan, Tora Bora was pounded from the air, left, right, and centered. It finally took a brigade level action in Operations ANNACONDA and HARPOON to finally dislodged al Qeida once and for all from power.

In the Iraq War, it was the 3rd Infantry Division and finally Operation THUNDER RUN that scared Saddam's people into surrendering. It was not a helicopter or an airplane that told Saddam he lost. It was a tank in one of his palaces.

Put it extremely simply. When you have a ground fight, airpower has failed to win the war.
 
.
Officer of Engineers said:
1. No, he obviosusly knows nothing. But he pretends to know more than I do. A simple question? Not likely, he was spewing his famous knowledge to shine for all to bow before him. Horse pucky and horse pucky smells better.

2. In the Kuwait War, the Battles of Kuwait City Airport, 73 Easting, Medina Ridge, not to mention Al Khafji where the Iraqis even mounted an offensive. Yeah, right, airpower won that war.

3. In Afghanistan, Tora Bora was pounded from the air, left, right, and centered. It finally took a brigade level action in Operations ANNACONDA and HARPOON to finally dislodged al Qeida once and for all from power.

4. In the Iraq War, it was the 3rd Infantry Division and finally Operation THUNDER RUN that scared Saddam's people into surrendering. It was not a helicopter or an airplane that told Saddam he lost. It was a tank in one of his palaces.

5. Put it extremely simply. When you have a ground fight, airpower has failed to win the war.

1. I didnt claim that i know more than you, partly because I dont know what I dont know, and I dont know what you know unless you elucidate what you do know.

2. In gulf war the Iraqi's had already lost before the first ground battle was fought. Hundreds of their tanks, artillery pieces and thousands of their troops were dead before ground forces reached them. The remaining troops were shell shocked and half starved.

Al Khafji occured before the U.S. airforce had ample to work the Iraqis well. It was merely an attempt to get the U.S. ground forces to attack before they were prepared.

3. Exactly, brigade level action to depose the Taliban backed by tens of thousands of troops and Al-Qaeda's hundreds.

4. In the face of the overwhelming airpower, most Iraqi troops didnt even fight, they couldnt wait to throw away their uniform and boots and run home. Only the Fedayeen and some of the regular iraqi troops fought (numbering at most a few thousand out of an army of a nominal strength of few hundred thousand).

5. That seems to be an extreme definition. Wouldnt most people say that when airpower has been the decisive factor, that it has won the war?
 
.
sigatoka said:
1. I didnt claim that i know more than you, partly because I dont know what I dont know, and I dont know what you know unless you elucidate what you do know.

2. In gulf war the Iraqi's had already lost before the first ground battle was fought. Hundreds of their tanks, artillery pieces and thousands of their troops were dead before ground forces reached them. The remaining troops were shell shocked and half starved.

Al Khafji occured before the U.S. airforce had ample to work the Iraqis well. It was merely an attempt to get the U.S. ground forces to attack before they were prepared.

3. Exactly, brigade level action to depose the Taliban backed by tens of thousands of troops and Al-Qaeda's hundreds.

4. In the face of the overwhelming airpower, most Iraqi troops didnt even fight, they couldnt wait to throw away their uniform and boots and run home. Only the Fedayeen and some of the regular iraqi troops fought (numbering at most a few thousand out of an army of a nominal strength of few hundred thousand).

5. That seems to be an extreme definition. Wouldnt most people say that when airpower has been the decisive factor, that it has won the war?
No offence Sig but you read far to much populist press.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom