Tractor
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Yeah,I see now. He said no1 had even heard of pakistan before 1947 is a truth for me.
Israel is an illegal creation of the United Kingdom!
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T-Rex
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And so are Hezbullah, Hamas and Iran; now you just might have the entire Middle East in that club after the Tunisian Revolution, the sooner people like you realise that the better for rest of the world.
Nice sophistry by the op. The real issue is not whether Israel is legitimately created or not, but whether its current activities are legal and moral. Zionists love to play the victim while being the aggressors. Classic Israeli pre-emption.
I think we should stop this kind of nonsense now.
First, Israel is not going anywhere else. Whoever want Israel gone can simply forget their wet dreams. There is no such possibility without enormous collateral damages.
Second, if Israel really wants peace, they need to stop building those settlements and tear down those that should not be built by UN resolution.
The only possible way is to go back to UN resolution that divides the land into two states. Israel need seriously consider to divide Jerusalem.
Neither side can destroy the other one and both sides are under constant danger. Of course, Palestinian side is more miserable and desperate. At the same time, it is also the side that has nothing to lose and continuously provides more and more suicide bombers.
Of course some Jewish people talk about they will give their last blood to defend Jerusalem and it is Jewish identity or whatsoever. Well, for more than 2000 years, Jerusalem was never in the hand of Jewish people and it seems Jewish people still keep their identity pretty well during those 2000 years.
So I am talking this issue from an outsider's view. So please do not jump your guns at me.
Of course, Israel is still militarily powerful and can defend itself for the near future. However, such conflicts will not stay at the level of suicide bombers or some rocket attacks. Both sides can gain possible highly powerful weapons that can cause great damages. Sooner or later, either they can struck the peace and reach the solution. Or either some side or both sides will have a great regret.
First, Israel is not going anywhere else. Whoever want Israel gone can simply forget their wet dreams. There is no such possibility without enormous collateral damages.
Second, if Israel really wants peace, they need to stop building those settlements and tear down those that should not be built by UN resolution.
The only possible way is to go back to UN resolution that divides the land into two states. Israel need seriously consider to divide Jerusalem.
Neither side can destroy the other one and both sides are under constant danger. Of course, Palestinian side is more miserable and desperate. At the same time, it is also the side that has nothing to lose and continuously provides more and more suicide bombers.
Of course some Jewish people talk about they will give their last blood to defend Jerusalem and it is Jewish identity or whatsoever. Well, for more than 2000 years, Jerusalem was never in the hand of Jewish people and it seems Jewish people still keep their identity pretty well during those 2000 years.
So I am talking this issue from an outsider's view. So please do not jump your guns at me.
Of course, Israel is still militarily powerful and can defend itself for the near future. However, such conflicts will not stay at the level of suicide bombers or some rocket attacks. Both sides can gain possible highly powerful weapons that can cause great damages. Sooner or later, either they can struck the peace and reach the solution. Or either some side or both sides will have a great regret.
T-Rex
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You can talk to someone who listens to logic but you cannot talk to the one who has been turned deaf by his arrogance and that is xactly what has happened to israel and america. They only understand that might is right. They will only listen when they will see their opponents militarily as powerful as they are.
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Pakistan was also created by the British and is perfectly legal, and here to stay, just like Israel.
Israel has fought enough wars to justify it's existence.
If you call Israel illegal even if we assume your views are valid, America would be more illegal than Israel because of the way they slaughtered Red Indians.
Israel has fought enough wars to justify it's existence.
If you call Israel illegal even if we assume your views are valid, America would be more illegal than Israel because of the way they slaughtered Red Indians.
Imagine if you will ephone, Hong Kong annexed Yet again by another Power. As unlikely as that scenario is, Chinese would have been enraged.
By your thinking, since you didn`t have it for 155 years when it was annexed the first time, it can be taken by anyone demanding and claiming it to be theirs... Now try to multiply the emotions of such annexation were to make you feel times a thousand, and you might come close just to how important Jerusalem is to Jews. The reason Jews kept their identity for so long was because for those 2000 years, each Jewish prayer ended with "Next year in Jerusalem" and now when it is finally ours, and if we were to willingly give up half of it to the very people that took in the first place... You get the point.
ovarel
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yes..and no one eats the "yes we are killing children but hamas is very very naughty..." argument..
Hong Kong has never been annexed. China was forced to lease it to UK after opium war and the lease expired on July 1, 1997.
We could have taken it back in 1949 but Mao decided to let it be at UK's hand until the lease expired. I think it is due to his smart thinking to keep UK close to China since China then was encircled by US.
No offense, I think Jerusalem is different and it is a land lost and regained by so many powers. The people living on that land for the past 2000 years, in majority of the time, was not Jewish at all. I do not think China, or any country, can claim something that far away. Otherwise, we should claim Korea as well as Vietnam since they were under China's control not that long ago.
Israel was created due to UN resolution and that resolution did not give the whole Jerusalem to Israel. If Israel respects its own creation, I suppose it should respect the UN resolution as well.
Of course, you can say that Arabs want to wipe Israel out initially to take the whole land and they have tried several times but lost always. That is true and indeed Arabs have constantly show hostility to Jewish people and that is why we have such problems now. However, nowadays a lot of them want to sit down to discuss peace with Israel and that has not happened much in the past during those mid-east wars.
To discuss peace, you have to go to certain authority or resolution that you can base on. Well, it seems that UN resolution is right there. In addition, we can also assume that if those Arabs had not started those mid-east wars, we have already had two countries there with Jerusalem divided already. In that sense, nobody would support Israel's invasion into the other half of Jerusalem for any cause.
The logic is that you can not take that because the other side started it. Otherwise, China army would not have withdrew from vietnam in 1979 even though we say vietnam started the conflict.
Claiming any land simply by a book deemed holy by its own religion does not stand well either. Old testament can do that for Jews while Quran can do that for Muslim as well. I bet there are also some other books that can show similar claims to certain part of lands somewhere else.
However, current geopolitics is not that way. I bet Indians in US can also claim North America was their holy lands for the past 2000 years. Can they drive the current non-Indians back to the sea or their original places? Of course, they do not have the power just like the current Arabs there.
However, if power is all Jewish people believe, as I have said, conflicts will continue for a long long time. It will be even bloodier. I do not see anyway out without Jerusalem issue solved. However, if some Jewish people really seek reasoning to solve this issue, you have to consider all possibilities. To be honest, if you have such a good reason, I think the whole world will see and understand.
The reason that so many governments, I do not mean only Muslim countries here, have to voice against Israel's policies indeed have quite something to do that they do not think the current reasoning Israel hold stands well. BTW, I am not a anti-semitic people or anti-Muslim people whatsoever.
We could have taken it back in 1949 but Mao decided to let it be at UK's hand until the lease expired. I think it is due to his smart thinking to keep UK close to China since China then was encircled by US.
No offense, I think Jerusalem is different and it is a land lost and regained by so many powers. The people living on that land for the past 2000 years, in majority of the time, was not Jewish at all. I do not think China, or any country, can claim something that far away. Otherwise, we should claim Korea as well as Vietnam since they were under China's control not that long ago.
Israel was created due to UN resolution and that resolution did not give the whole Jerusalem to Israel. If Israel respects its own creation, I suppose it should respect the UN resolution as well.
Of course, you can say that Arabs want to wipe Israel out initially to take the whole land and they have tried several times but lost always. That is true and indeed Arabs have constantly show hostility to Jewish people and that is why we have such problems now. However, nowadays a lot of them want to sit down to discuss peace with Israel and that has not happened much in the past during those mid-east wars.
To discuss peace, you have to go to certain authority or resolution that you can base on. Well, it seems that UN resolution is right there. In addition, we can also assume that if those Arabs had not started those mid-east wars, we have already had two countries there with Jerusalem divided already. In that sense, nobody would support Israel's invasion into the other half of Jerusalem for any cause.
The logic is that you can not take that because the other side started it. Otherwise, China army would not have withdrew from vietnam in 1979 even though we say vietnam started the conflict.
Claiming any land simply by a book deemed holy by its own religion does not stand well either. Old testament can do that for Jews while Quran can do that for Muslim as well. I bet there are also some other books that can show similar claims to certain part of lands somewhere else.
However, current geopolitics is not that way. I bet Indians in US can also claim North America was their holy lands for the past 2000 years. Can they drive the current non-Indians back to the sea or their original places? Of course, they do not have the power just like the current Arabs there.
However, if power is all Jewish people believe, as I have said, conflicts will continue for a long long time. It will be even bloodier. I do not see anyway out without Jerusalem issue solved. However, if some Jewish people really seek reasoning to solve this issue, you have to consider all possibilities. To be honest, if you have such a good reason, I think the whole world will see and understand.
The reason that so many governments, I do not mean only Muslim countries here, have to voice against Israel's policies indeed have quite something to do that they do not think the current reasoning Israel hold stands well. BTW, I am not a anti-semitic people or anti-Muslim people whatsoever.
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Hamas is killing our children on purpose and it is using Palestinian children as human shields. We spend huge effort to avoid casualties. Your nation killed hundreds times more children on purpose and you keep kissing with those who kill children today. You deprive 20% of your indegeous populaton of basic human rights. So you are the last one who can teach us morals.
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