Israel Hijacks Aid cargo, executes hostages - Pak journo, Talat Hussain taken hostage

[Kompromat]

Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert


New Delhi: Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza.

Israel said 10 people died while those on the ship said at least 15 were killed.

Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert - World - ibnlive

We have got your Back for anything !!

 

[Kompromat]

Don't post Zaid Hamid. A bigot is profiting from this sad event to spread his message of hate.

I would like to read, and am reading coverage from neutral, sensible, objective and sane people.

Keep your commentary to yourself , i dont care what you like or not , the video worths posting so i did.

Dont tell me what i cant do!

 

[FreekiN]

Turkey have said that another larger supply ships will be sent to Gaza escort by the Turkish Navy.


HELLLLLLL YEEEAAAHHHH
>>Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.
Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert - World - ibnlive

 

[sparklingway]

Keep your commentary to yourself , i dont care what you like or not , the video worths posting so i did.

Dont tell me what i cant do!

Because you are war mongering and using religion in a situation that does not require or involve religious rhetoric.

You are free to post videos, i have no qualms over posting sane videos.

---------- Post added at 06:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 AM ----------

Freekin this Turkey threatens Israel news is coming from IBN only. Any other news outlet or IBN just misquoting statements?

 

[Kompromat]

Because you are war mongering and using religion in a situation that does not require or involve religious rhetoric.

You are free to post videos, i have no qualms over posting sane videos.

You always have choice to post whatever you want so do i , if you don't like anything better do not reply.

Thanks

 

[sparklingway]

You always have choice to post whatever you want so do i , if you don't like anything better do not reply.

Thanks

I am allowed to post my objections.

 

[Kompromat]

 

[Kompromat]

Please discuss Egypt's Role as they are directly responsible for bringing this issue to this extent !

 

[Solomon2]

This has nothing to do with the jews, and everything to do with Israel. Israel is a murderous, terrorist state.

I don't think Pakistanis are well-equipped to make such judgments.

If it were not for America propping up Israel, it would have met its end by now.

That might be true for Pakistan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and a few other countries, but is it really true for Israel? American aid was not a major factor until after the Six-Day War. In 1973 when Syria and Egypt attacked Israel on the holiest day of the Jewish year and Israel responded by crossing the Suez Canal into Africa and closing to artillery range of Damascus, America bribed Israel to refrain from destroying its enemies by promising to maintain Israel as the strongest military power in the region.

Unnatural alliances can extend the inevitable, but cannot prevent history from taking its natural course.

You aren't talking about the flotilla any more.

The founders of Israel were terrorists by any definition of the word -

Herzl was a journalist. Sir Herbert Samuel was a British cabinet minister. Abdul Hamid II and Mehmed VI were Ottoman Caliphs. The League of Nations was an assembly of the victors of WWI, and in 1947 the United Nations was an assembly of the victors of WWII, mostly democrats but some dictators and communists as well. All of these helped "found" Israel - indeed, I doubt Israel would exist without them. Do you consider all these people and entities "terrorists by any definition"?

- and they snatched lands from the Palestinians.

By "snatch" do you include "purchase"? The issue is more complicated than that. If you want all "snatched" lands returned to the victimized peoples, do you support returning lands taken from the Jews as well? I don't hear anybody offering to give the Jews Medina or a quarter of Baghdad in exchange for Tel Aviv - and the Israelis wouldn't want it, either.

The Jews were promised a homeland in Palestine as part of the great de-Imperialization movement after WWI. Many nationalities, which had been mixed up before, were separated into nation-states: Greeks, Hungarians, Poles, Arabs, etc. The provision for the Jews, however, had a key difference: the existing civil rights of the Arab population was to be maintained. The Zionists agreed to accept this and as proof of their good faith over 20% of the population of Israel is Arab.

However, the Jews kicked out by most of the Arab countries, where were they supposed to go? When the world is prepared to discuss not just how small Israel should be but how big Israel should be, then I think there will be a greater chance for peace.

You know as well as I do that a large number of jews condemn Israeli actions.

Many of these still support the existence of Israel. This is an exercise in freedom of debate that Pakistanis, it seems, do not care to experience.

It is an issue, pure and simple, of state terrorism. We want the biggest perpetrator of state terror over the last 60 years to be brought to justice.

I urge you to study world history more fully to understand how laughable your words are. That an intelligent person like you stands by them without entertaining the possibility of error - is there a better indication of how demented Pakistan has become?

We are willing to wait as long as our jewish brothers did, to watch the terrorist Israelis be brought to justice.

Are you interested in justice or enforcing your own sense of righteousness?

Yes, let's change the subject and throw in Ahmedis, and other unconnected issues -

Are you so certain it is unconnected? Isn't it the same sort of thinking?

Israel has no damn right to prevent aid from reaching Palestine.

They aren't. Read Totten: the flotilla was never about aid.

If you believe in international law, then you must also believe in Israel's violation of it.

I believe that judgment should be a matter for courts, and courts should follow law, not the opinion of the majority. The difference is that the accused gets a hearing and alleged violations are judged by their evidence and context of events, not hot-headed emotion.

please be prepared to see Israel suffer the consequences of the evil it has wrought upon millions of innocents -

Wow, you've really bought "the narrative", as Arabs describe it, hook, line, and sinker.

It is Israel which is creating a blood feud -

How can blood feuds end? If one party wants peace and the other doesn't, is that sufficient?

What will happen in future is of Israel's own design and making. Israel is its own worst enemy.

No, TL. This incident ranks as a depraved plot, one certainly not of Israel's making. (Israel didn't make the flotilla set sail, nor compel its passengers to attack the boarding party with clubs and knives.)

Absolutely, which is why it sickens me to see an educated man such as yourself defend terrorists and cold blooded Israeli killers.

Who is more likely to have a better perception of such matters, you or I? It frightens you even to approach the line of thinking that what Israel does is usually right and just, doesn't it?

Actually, Pakistan has gotten less poor (please refer to GNP stats) and more educated in the last 60 some years.

True. Nevertheless, public disorder and miltarism has gotten worse, hasn't it?

If the America of today can emerge from a state where, 60-70 years after its independence it faced a fractious civil war which ended up in the slaughter of millions of Americans -

I think it was under 600,000 - still a large fraction of America's population.

- then I think 60 years after our independence the Taliban etc. are small fry issues for us. We're following in your footsteps, it's just that we're doing a lot better than you were 60 years after your independence.

Um, no you're not. East Pakistan broke away forty years ago. Rump Pakistan has been slowly fracturing since. The P.A.'s efforts of the past year may have reversed that, but as Nadeem Farooq Paracha put it, "Anything to do with Allah, or the prophet, and everyone keeps quiet. That's the problem with our country." link

You're not out of the woods yet. And I think re-considering Pakistan's views towards Israel, Jews, and its own minorities will be a big part of it.

Consider Germany. Nobody doubts that Germany is a civilized state today (one where civil law applies, not prejudice.) Germany just awarded its highest civilian honor to a man working at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum who spent years of his life in a successful quest to open sequestered Holocaust records. That may be because when the records were unsealed, it was discovered that less than half of them had to do with Jews; the majority dealt with crimes committed by the Nazis against Germans and non-Jewish minorities.

In my opinion, it is a similar legacy Pakistan must face and acknowledge if it is to move forward, rather than succumb to a barbaric and destructive mentality.

 

[sparklingway]

BBC has some very sane words:-

For many critics of Israel - on the streets and in foreign ministries - it is not just about this single incident at sea, serious and deadly though it was, says the BBC's Jeremy Bowen in Jerusalem.

It is about a pattern of violent and disproportionate behaviour, with Israel playing to its own rules rather than international law, our correspondent says.

 

[Meengla]

@Sparklingway,
I don't know what to say about this Turkish 'escort' of future Flotillas to Gazas (Gosh! The word 'Flotilla' will be etched in my memory till my dying days from now on, I guess!). I don't think the Turkish and Israeli militaries are going to allow another 'casual encounter' near Gaza--the stakes are way too high now.

Let's diffuse the situation where Gazans life is better and where there are no Kassams launched into Sderot. I don't think that kind of 'understanding' is too hard to reach, especially now that Israelis are much more likely to 'eat the humble pie' in face of the international condemnation AND of a potential Turkish involvement.

At the same time, let the 'Fayyad Plan' be executed: A unilateral declaration of independence of a Palestinian State along the 1967 Borders to be immediately recognized by the world powers. The rest should fall in place before too long because the Settlements will become a part of 'foreign' occupation needs to be dealt with in a landswap or removal.

There is no point in working overselves up to a 3rd World War. Israelis as well as the Palestinians are equally human beings and both need to be accommodated in a fair way.

 

[sparklingway]

Solomon is back. Yeah !

 

[Luftwaffe]

sparklingway..Move on for God Sakes! almost every western and eastern source from media are spreading hate. If some one posts a source.videos pass it and carry on. I can provide you a long list of indian media/Western media that are fanatically extremist in their hate for Islam/Pakistan no one seems to discuss them except for ZH this ZH that. As many videos i have seen of ZH, there is no hate message in videos the only thing he says is beware of those elements and identify, and that statements are more than enough for sane person to identify ZH is not a hate speech puppet perhaps many don't like his way of speech and many likes it, it does not make you in driving seat because now what you said about ZH makes you a bigot as well! what profit does he earn from it? so far people rant would someone care to list his profiteering. flip the page and move on request Mods to close down any threads that are opened on ZH this ZH that fine he is stupid for many therefore lets keep that out of this Defense Forum shall we?!

 

[Solomon2]

Hmm, while I crafted my reply, four pages of comments were added.

I revise what I said earlier. In addition to censorship, truth can be drowned out by sheer volume. Indeed, I recall the story of one fellow who visited a Pakistani madrassa experienced just that when he tried to discuss Islam with the students; they started a chant and drowned him out.

How different is that from the coverage Israel has experienced today?

 

[Kompromat]

Hmm, while I crafted my reply, four pages of comments were added.

I revise what I said earlier. In addition to censorship, truth can be drowned out by sheer volume. Indeed, I recall the story of one fellow who visited a Pakistani madrassa experienced just that when he tried to discuss Islam with the students; they started a chant and drowned him out.

How different is that from the coverage Israel has experienced today?

Nice fairy tale