Israel and Pakistan Building 2nd Strike Capability With AIP Submarines

[JPMM]

Sorry, I am looking at your sea bed on google, outside Carachi, its realy shalow waters?

 

[Wolfhound]

2nd strike capability is a must for Pakistan, sooner we attain better it will be. If Pakistan is able to use Babur LACM from its submarines it would be a great step and the the country would become safer than before.
One more thing, apart from the absence of AIP what are the other differences between S-20 and Yuan class?

It is smaller and can carry lesser payload, range, men, speed and the AIP has a shorter time frame but this is still good enough compared to other submarines

 

[A2Z]

AIP has a shorter time frame

What I have heard and read from different sources almost all say AIP is absent, but you say something different. Can you state the source?

 

[Wolfhound]

What I have heard and read from different sources almost all say AIP is absent, but you say something different. Can you state the source?

I say this because there is an option for upgradation to AIP for anyone who buys these submarines. Pakistan already has 3 AIP equipped submarines so why would it knowingly downgrade? Even if it does it will buy the AIP's for its submarines later as it is inevitable in current scenario.

 

[RiazHaq]

Pakistan hopes to revive its naval modernization program through a warship construction deal with China that will also expand Pakistan's shipbuilding industry.

Chinese media reports have outlined a construction program involving six of eight S-20 variants of the Type-039A/Type-041 submarine under negotiation; four "Improved F-22P" frigates equipped with enhanced sensors and weaponry (possibly including the HQ-17 surface-to-air missile developed from the Russian Tor 1/SA-N-9); and six Type-022 Houbei stealth catamaran missile boats, to be built by Pakistan's state-owned shipbuilder Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW).

The reports indicate Type-022 construction may be delayed by the ongoing Azmat fast attack craft building program, but also highlight a significant expansion of KSEW's facilities.

These include a foundry, fabrication facilities to cover all aspects of ship construction, berthing facilities, and two graving docks of 26,000 and 18,000 dead weight tons, spread over 71 acres.

A 7,881-ton ship lift transfer system will be completed next year.

KSEW will expand to occupy facilities vacated by the Navy as it transfers from Karachi to Ormara. The Pakistan Navy Dockyard, which is adjacent to KSEW, already has facilities upgraded by the French during construction of Agosta-90B submarines.

Pakistani officials would not comment on these reports. Repeated attempts to secure comment from the Ministry of Defence Production, KSEW, the Navy and federal politicians connected with defense decision-making bodies were turned away.

The program will follow a Sino-Pakistani agreement for six patrol vessels for Pakistan's Maritime Security Agency agreed to on June 10, with two built by KSEW.

Author, analyst and former Australian defense attache to Islamabad Brian Cloughley said the groundwork laid by the Agosta-90B program that included upgrades to PN Dockyard facilities and the training of some 1,000 civilian technicians greatly facilitated present plans.

However, Trevor Taylor, professorial research fellow, defense, industries and society, at the Royal United Services Institute highlighted the problems KSEW's construction and expansion plans could encounter.

"Experience from around the world shows that it is very easy to be optimistic about the difficulty of naval shipbuilding and the time taken to complete construction and systems integration," he said. "Plans for rapid expansion of warship production are unlikely to proceed on schedule. The coordinated and sustained application of extensive managerial and technical skills is required, and submarines especially have vital safety dimensions."

He highlights the importance of a sustainable program.

"The lesson from the UK and elsewhere is that, once a warship design and build capability is in place, it is best maintained and developed through a planned and steady drumbeat of programs, rather than a rapid expansion of activity for a limited period of years followed by a sudden drop-off in orders. Clearly this requires a consistent stance of support for the industry from political authorities."

Cloughley is optimistic, however, that the extensive Chinese help provided to Pakistan in warship construction, in addition to agreements made during Chinese President Xi Jinping's recent visit, "indicate that all types of cooperation will continue and expand."

He said this is related to the burgeoning Indo-US relationship, India's increasingly antagonistic anti-Pakistani rhetoric, and clearer Sino-Indian divisions that mean the Sino-Pakistan "axis of understanding has become more tangible."

Consequently, "KSEW can expect considerable input from such as [China Shipbuilding & Offshore International Co]. Money, certainly; but also, and perhaps of more importance, provision of expertise."


Pakistan Seeks To Energize Naval Modernization

 

[SecularNationalist]

In ancient times the land known as Bharat Varsh or Jambu Dweep or Aryavart was the land shown in the map of Akhand Bharat. Today's Bharat is khandit Bharat and not Akhand. Tell any staunch hindu nationalist in India if he would like Pakistan or Bangladesh to merge, his answer will be NO WAY.... it was a good riddance. This Akhand Bharat refers only to where hindu civilization was born and flourished. Much water has flown since. Advent of Buddhism, Islam and christianity has changed the culture of India. In fact SAARC is Akhand Bharat. When students are asked to draw the map of India during Ashoka's reign, it covers Afghanistan. In hitherto history Akhan Bharat was never ruled by one king. Let history be history. Any fear that Akhand Bharat is the agenda of Indians is nothing but a propaganda.

You are living a third class living standard as a muslim in india and are confused about your identity and yet here on online forums showing your loyalty to india.You look ready for ghar wapisi?

 

[Razia Sultana]

Ramzan Mumbarak Bhai and to all PDF members!
I am an Indian so its obvious that I am loyal to my country. No one should have any doubt about it. In a virtual forum and being anonymous there is nothing to show off to anyone. Its just expressing my innerself. What makes you feel that I am confused about my identity??? I am a proud muslim, a proud Indian and a proud woman living happily with my small family.
I wish Allah subhan wa ta'ala blesses all during the month of Ramzan!!!

 

[Indian Patriot]

You are living a third class living standard as a muslim in india and are confused about your identity and yet here on online forums showing your loyalty to india.You look ready for ghar wapisi?

On what basis are you claiming muslims are confused about their identity? Are there no incidents of sectarian violence in Pakistan?

@Razia Sultana - Ramzan Mubarak to you and your family as well.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Ramzan Mumbarak Bhai and to all PDF members!
I am an Indian so its obvious that I am loyal to my country. No one should have any doubt about it. In a virtual forum and being anonymous there is nothing to show off to anyone. Its just expressing my innerself. What makes you feel that I am confused about my identity??? I am a proud muslim, a proud Indian and a proud woman living happily with my small family.
I wish Allah subhan wa ta'ala blesses all during the month of Ramzan!!!

How can you be loyal to a so called hindu secular india which hates islam with passion and after gujrat and kashmir genocide they want to kill even more muslims? Dear pakistan was made for a purpose it was not just created overnight .Those who did not migrate are still paying the price.As a muslim you cannot buy or rent a home in any big indian city and yet you call yourself a proud indian.I salute your patriotism.

On what basis are you claiming muslims are confused about their identity? Are there no incidents of sectarian violence in Pakistan?

@Razia Sultana - Ramzan Mubarak to you and your family as well.

RAW, Mossad and NDS behind terrorism in Pakistan, say security agencies | Terminal X

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I am a proud muslim, a proud Indian and a proud woman living happily with my small family.
I wish Allah subhan wa ta'ala blesses all during the month of Ramzan!!!

Ramdhan Mubarak to you. You as a Indian Muslims should be proud of your country and should follow its laws and rules etc but sometime Muslims in India try to express unnecessary hatred for Pakistani Muslims to show their loyalty for India and to please Hinduvata nationalist . Primary identity of all Muslims should be Islam before anything else unless they put country above God and we can oppose a ruler or polices of a country if its against basic Islamic principles.. What you say as Indian Muslim? What you gonna do in scenario where your national interests conflict with Islam or Islamic principles? I personally consider my self Muslim before pakistani or british as Islam is against blind nationalism

How can you be loyal to a so called hindu secular india which hates islam with passion and after gujrat and kashmir genocide they want to kill even more muslims? Dear pakistan was made for a purpose it was not just created overnight .Those who did not migrate are still paying the price.As a muslim you cannot buy or rent a home in any big indian city and yet you call yourself a proud indian.I salute your patriotism.

What is your solution for those Muslims in India? what else they should do if not be loyal to India which is their home?

 

[SecularNationalist]

Ramdhan Mubarak to you. You as a Indian Muslims should be proud of your country and should follow its laws and rules etc but sometime Muslims in India try to express unnecessary hatred for Pakistani Muslims to show their loyalty for India and to please Hinduvata nationalist . Primary identity of all Muslims should be Islam before anything else unless they put country above God and we can oppose a ruler or polices of a country if its against basic Islamic principles.. What you say as Indian Muslim? What you gonna do in scenario where your national interests conflict with Islam or Islamic principles? I personally consider my self Muslim before pakistani or british as Islam is against blind nationalism


What is your solution for those Muslims in India? what else they should do if not be loyal to India which is their home?

Unfortunately there is no solution for poor indian muslims.They will be treated as third class citizens .But i retaliated because her posts are anti-pakistan as usual for showing her loyalty to hindu india. What i said to her was not a solution that was retaliation.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Unfortunately there is no solution for poor indian muslims.They will be treated as third class citizens .But i retaliated because her posts are anti-pakistan as usual for showing her loyalty to hindu india. What i said to her was not a solution that was retaliation.

may be thats the only option left for them to hate us and get approval and patriotic certificate from fellow Hindu thekadaar of India If hating us or our country give them some peace then you dont take their hate on your heart

 

[SecularNationalist]

may be thats the only option left for them to hate us and get approval and patriotic certificate from fellow Hindu thekadaar of India If hating us or our country give them some peace then you dont take their hate on your heart

That,s right Also india would not be too bad for them if they really applied the concept of secularism there.But india is one big joke in the name of secularism. I believe we should be secular muslim majority state and there is nothing wrong with it,at least that will stop religion being misused by the terrorists. The problem with indian muslims is that they are muslims who are trapped inside a hindu india .They are indians but treated as a third class citizens in so called secular india. MA jinnah saw it coming but the ones who did not left india were fooled in the name of secularism and now they are paying the price.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Ramdhan Mubarak to you. You as a Indian Muslims should be proud of your country and should follow its laws and rules etc but sometime Muslims in India try to express unnecessary hatred for Pakistani Muslims to show their loyalty for India and to please Hinduvata nationalist . Primary identity of all Muslims should be Islam before anything else unless they put country above God and we can oppose a ruler or polices of a country if its against basic Islamic principles.. What you say as Indian Muslim? What you gonna do in scenario where your national interests conflict with Islam or Islamic principles? I personally consider my self Muslim before pakistani or british as Islam is against blind nationalism


What is your solution for those Muslims in India? what else they should do if not be loyal to India which is their home?

Thankyou. One should always be loyal to his motherland.
No one in India has any hatred for pakistani muslims per se. Whatever antagonism is there its because of pakistan's complicity in the terror acts in India. We are a democratic country and no one is required to please anyone. "If non muslim indians criticise pakistan, you accept it but if muslim indians criticise pakistan then they are pleasing hindutva nationalists"... the fact is the criticism comes from an indian regardless of religion. Caste, communal and sectarian violence are not exclusive to India but the whole of south asia.what differentiates India is that its constitution gives equal rights to all her citizens regardless of religious beliefs. Since the promulgation of Indian constitution there has never been a situation where anyone's religious belief has come in the way of the nation. Our constitution is truely secular and has enough flexibility to accommodate diversity. I am free to practice my religion and if there is any obstruction, the state will ensure all such obstructions are removed. In a diverse society its natural to have differences of opinion and at times opinions clash and peace is disturbed but eventually everyone finds solace in judiciary and the constitution.
I always wonder why this question is asked that if nationalism clashes with islam what will you do? Its like asking a child who will he side with if in case his parents divorce.

Regarding your last sentence about the people who are not loyal to India, well.... what solution do you have for the people who are not loyal to pakistan? Many Jinnah supporters did stay back in India and so are many people in Pakistan who did not want Pakistan to be created but eventually became Pakistanis like Balochs and followers of Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan and many others.

Unfortunately there is no solution for poor indian muslims.They will be treated as third class citizens .But i retaliated because her posts are anti-pakistan as usual for showing her loyalty to hindu india. What i said to her was not a solution that was retaliation.

India is not a Hindu Republic but a Secular nation. An indian will always be pro-indian. Even those muslims who supported Jinnah and did not migrate to pakistan, dont regret their decision of staying back in India.

 

[Kaniska]

And what Pakistan has been teaching their kids in schools? Akhand Bharat is history. No Indian dreams of hoisting tricolor on Minar-e-Pakistan but kids in Pakistan are sold the dreams of ghazwa-e-hind and hoisting pakistani flag on lal qila.

Pakistan would have died of heart attack if her threats were as large as India's and her defence budget was as low as India's.

Akhand Bharat is a minomer...Who will the crazy that they will try to occupy the nation like Pakistan....