Islamism ???

[Luftwaffe]

read my post again.

Do not quote single verses without context. Do not pick one line from a story.

Believe me quoting single verse is all fine and permissible now don't ask me reference to it you know more don't you professor jee.

Now people should not become mullahs telling others not to post this and that don't do that don't write it in this way....classic mullahs.

 

[rockstar08]

Now you are joking about Quran.

It is one thing to quote stuff out of context

But mocking Quran?

What's new with Islamists these days

What the heck is new



p.s. for rest of the sane people

2:129 is about Ibraham+Ishmael pbuh story
and NOT about Mohammad pbuh


It is like reading a story about Ayatullah Khomeni and telling everyone you read a story about Gandhi. hahahahaha

well i just read the verses , not just one but also read few more , i am not sure about to whom they are referring because i am not scholar of course , but it can be pointed towards Muhammad pbuh or may be Esa Pbuh ..not sure again

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Why you guys are wasting your time with Faujihistorian ? He is not suitable guy for such discussion. He has made up his mind and will reject everything you will come up with..azama lo

 

[Luftwaffe]

not just translation but PROPER context.

Otherwise you all are spreading ignorance by quoting single verses AND totally out of context.

If that is the case than all the debates are rubbish useless waste of time pointless and all 4 imams wasted their time on every single verse and hadith and discussing them....professor jee accept it you are wrong here...it is permissible to use a single verse to explain and make others understand...again don't make it hard for people like mullah that you don't have permission for this and that please spare us from mullah's ijaza...

Allah said:
“And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)? (Qur’an 54:17)

well i just read the verses , not just one but also read few more , i am not sure about to whom they are referring because i am not scholar of course , but it can be pointed towards Muhammad pbuh or may be Esa Pbuh ..not sure again

Clearly to Muhammad P.B.U.H and Quran is reveled to Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H....tomorrow professor jee would come saying speak in context about "give zakah" other wise don't quote...that is actually mullah izaja attitude.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@VCheng

Where are you now ???

I have answered your questions.

 

[rockstar08]

If that is the case than all the debates are rubbish useless waste of time pointless and all 4 imams wasted their time on every single verse and hadith and discussing them....professor jee accept it you are wrong here...it is permissible to use a single verse to explain and make others understand...again don't make it hard for people like mullah that you don't have permission for this and that please spare us from mullah's ijaza...

Allah said:
“And We have indeed made the Qur’an easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)? (Qur’an 54:17)



Clearly to Muhammad P.B.U.H and Quran is reveled to Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H....tomorrow professor jee would come saying speak in context about "give zakah" other wise don't quote...that is actually mullah izaja attitude.

bhai , i am not saying that its not referring to muhammad pbuh , let me show you the verse then it will be easy to understand.

Surah Baqrah verse 127 " And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing. "

same surah verse 128 " Our Lord, and make us Muslims [in submission] to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation [in submission] to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. "

verse 129 "Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

now see that its referring to a prophet , from themselves ! now question is from whom ? arabs or jews ? if its jews than it can be esa pbuh but if its referring to arab than yes its Muhammad pbuh ...
but what i understand that in that verse its says " purify them " and we all know that esa pbuh in his life was not as successful as muhammad pbuh i am not say anything wrong about esa pbuh ..but Muhammad pbuh teach , and purify arabs as whole ,
but again i am not sure about my explanation..

 

[Chak Bamu]

Deoband and Ahl e Hadith are the two faces of the same coin



They are called Wahabis as they follow teachings of Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab
And that is the popular name

Your certitude is amazing sir. I wonder from whence you get it?

Deoband was set up by Maulana Qasim Nanotvi and others (including Maulana Abdur-Rasheed Gangohi) after 1857. Said two Maulanas were initiated in Chishtia Silsila and were disciples of Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki. All concerned followed Hanafi Fiqh.

How can you trace Deoband to Abdul Wahab Najdi who happened to follow Hanbali Fiqh, and was inspired by Ibn-Taimiyyah???

Deobandis insist upon the importance of Tauheed more than Barelvis and that is the source of their differences. Under Saudi influence Deobandis have tilted towards Wahabist opinions, but still it would be wrong to characterize Deobandis as Wahhabis.

Deobandis have a tradition of resistance ever since 1857. Maulana Qasim, Maulana Abdur-Rasheed Gangohi, along with Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki fought against British forces in the area of Shamli. They lost - some fled, some were arrested, some were executed. But details of that is another story. Point is that Deobandis have a certain tradition. But that tradition has local South Asian roots, not Najdi ones.

Barelvis branded Deobandis as Wahabists, but that of course is wrong and baseless. People pick up that thread based on likes / dislikes, agendas and what-not.

So, how can you substantiate your claim that Deobandis are connected with Abdul-Wahab?

 

[VCheng]

@VCheng

Where are you now ???

I have answered your questions.

I am right here, but you have answered nothing, and understood even less. What else can I say?

This odd half-educated poster is quoting Ibraham+Ishmael pbuh story
and making it about Mohammad pbuh

hahahahah

pathetic.

even 2-bit mullahs can do better job than these guys

so sorry to see Quran being quoted out of context

Well said. I have nothing to add after this.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I am right here, but you have answered nothing, and understood even less. What else can I say?



Well said. I have nothing to add after this.

I answered your questions with verses of Qur'an.

Please read their translation.

After that if you have anymore questions, i'm ready to answer them.

If you feel that these verses are out of context then i'll post their Tafseer (by different scholars) .

After all that if you still feel that your questions are unanswered then i can only assume that you don't want to understand the answers.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Your certitude is amazing sir. I wonder from whence you get it?

Deoband was set up by Maulana Qasim Nanotvi and others (including Maulana Abdur-Rasheed Gangohi) after 1857. Said two Maulanas were initiated in Chishtia Silsila and were disciples of Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki. All concerned followed Hanafi Fiqh.

How can you trace Deoband to Abdul Wahab Najdi who happened to follow Hanbali Fiqh, and was inspired by Ibn-Taimiyyah???

Deobandis insist upon the importance of Tauheed more than Barelvis and that is the source of their differences. Under Saudi influence Deobandis have tilted towards Wahabist opinions, but still it would be wrong to characterize Deobandis as Wahhabis.

Deobandis have a tradition of resistance ever since 1857. Maulana Qasim, Maulana Abdur-Rasheed Gangohi, along with Haji Imdadullah Muhajir Makki fought against British forces in the area of Shamli. They lost - some fled, some were arrested, some were executed. But details of that is another story. Point is that Deobandis have a certain tradition. But that tradition has local South Asian roots, not Najdi ones.

Barelvis branded Deobandis as Wahabists, but that of course is wrong and baseless. People pick up that thread based on likes / dislikes, agendas and what-not.

So, how can you substantiate your claim that Deobandis are connected with Abdul-Wahab?

Deobundi also have two wings

One is political and one is non violent tabligi Jamat . Funny thing is brelvi and deobundi still have many differences even when they boht follow Hanfi school of thought

Barveli and shia are allergic with deobundi and saudi version of Islam (dont want to use word wahabi by twisting the name of God) and saudi version of Islam is allergic with certain p[ractices of breavli and shia sects(twelever) so they often fabricate stuffs against each others. If you learn what deobndi practice from barevli scholars then he will do his best to misguide you and same is true if you learn Brelvi Islam from deobundi scholar. I personally dont like certain practices of Braelvi and at the same time i don't like the twisted version of jihad practice by some deobuni like those of TTP/talib guys who feel its right to force Islam in throat of others by using force and suicide is some sort of jihad against kufar

 

[Chak Bamu]

Deobundi also have two wings

One is political and one is non violent tabligi Jamat . Funny thing is brelvi and deobundi still have many differences even when they boht follow Hanfi school of thought

Barveli and shia are allergic with deobundi and saudi version of Islam (dont want to use word wahabi by twisting the name of God) and saudi version of Islam is allergic with certain p[ractices of breavli and shia sects(twelever) so they often fabricate stuffs against each others. If you learn what deobndi practice from barevli scholars then he will do his best to misguide you and same is true if you learn Brelvi Islam from deobundi scholar. I personally dont like certain practices of Braelvi and at the same time i don't like the twisted version of jihad practice by some deobuni like those of TTP/talib guys who feel its right to force Islam in throat of others by using force and suicide is some sort of jihad against kufar

Sorry to disagree with a couple of your observations:

1. Deoband is a school of thought. The people who graduated from there developed institutions and practices by their own initiative. Tablighi Jamat was started by Maulana Ilyas on his own. He just happened to have graduated from Darul Uloom Deoband. Similarly establishment of Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind was individual initiative (by Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni ? If I am not Wrong). Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi and his pro-independence political program was also a graduate of Deoband. Before Iqbal's Allahabad address of 1930, he discussed his idea of a pseudo-secular country that comprised of present day Pakistan with whole of Punjab (West Punjab, East Punjab, Himachal Pardesh, Haryana), Kashmir, etc... to be named "Sindh Sagar".

So you see, it is rather simplistic to devise a binary division of Deobandis.

2. I can guess that you have Ahl-e-Hadith leanings by your avoiding using the term 'Wahabist'. If niyat is to refer to a person by the name of Abdul Wahab, then there is nothing wrong with using this term. It has come to acquire a particular meaning in context and doe NOT refer to Allah.

3. Your grasp of Deobandi / Barelvi issues seems to lack clarity. I can not claim to be expert, but I can tell that though I have Barelvi leanings myself, I consider Barelvis to be wrong in this whole issue. Deobandis did not go out on a limb to bait Barelvis. Rather it is the Barelvis who focused on a particular theological position and unfairly applied it to Deobandis. As far as I know, there is no real difference between Barelvis and Deobandis. The difference is that of the emphasis. One emphasizes Tauheed, and rightly so. The other focuses on Risalat, and rightly so. This difference should not have created a needless issue.

 

[VCheng]

I answered your questions with verses of Qur'an.

Please read their translation.

After that if you have anymore questions, i'm ready to answer them.

If you feel that these verses are out of context then i'll post their Tafseer (by different scholars) .

After all that if you still feel that your questions are unanswered then i can only assume that you don't want to understand the answers.

Not that this is a religious or theologic thread, right @Aeronaut ?

 

[RAMPAGE]

Not that this is a religious or theologic thread, right @Aeronaut ?

See ???

You never wanted the answers.

 

[VCheng]

See ???

You never wanted the answers.

I have the answers.

 

[Kompromat]

I have the answers.

Go on then, bless us.