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IS PAKISTAN INTERESTED IN THE TURKISH TFX

TFX is best for PAF agree?

  • YES

    Votes: 81 70.4%
  • No

    Votes: 34 29.6%

  • Total voters
    115

nadeemkhan110

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IS PAKISTAN INTERESTED IN THE TURKISH TFX? (PART 1

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With Turkey and Pakistan finalizing a number of important defence deals, such as the ASELPOD acquisition andAgosta 90B submarine program, some circles in both countries are of the hope that the era of strong bilateral defence relations is finally beginning. This has been an aspiration, especially since the mid-2000s when the two countries embarked to engage in areas such as joint technology development and training.

Sadly, a particularly troublesome political and economic period within Pakistan from 2009 put a heavy dampener on those aspirations, especially on the acquisitions front where the Pakistan Navy’s pursuit of four MILGEM corvettes fell through. Fortunately, the two countries still managed to nurture their ties in the realm of training, with the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Turkish Air Force (TuAF) being regular participants at one another’s exercises, such as Anatolian Eagle (Turkey) and Indus Viper (Pakistan).

The summer of 2016 could emerge as a milestone where major procurements and joint-initiatives become a more common sight between Anakara and Islamabad. For example, Pakistan requested $400 million in credit from Turkey to help finance a procurement of four MILGEM-based corvettes. Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is also eager to sell its T-129 dedicated attack helicopter to the Pakistan Army. However, as valuable as these programs are on their own terms, their scope would utterly pale in comparison to the prospect of the PAF signing onto the TAI TFX next-generation fighter program.

The idea of this being reality is tenuous or on the weaker side, but a well-placed Pakistani government official reportedly told Turkey’s publicly owned media outlet Anadolu Agency that the two countries were in talks over the TAI TFX. Anadolu Agency even noted that if the program “materialized, it [would] be a flagship project between the two brotherly countries.” It has to be prefaced that government officials from Pakistan say many things, one only needs to look at the news of the PAF’s purported interest in the Sukhoi Su-35 as an example (of what could be wrong with what these officials say). When it comes to the PAF, it is always best to take it from the words of a publicly known PAF official.

At the same time, it would be unfair to extrapolate the weaker underpinnings of the Su-35 idea with the claims surrounding the TFX. For one thing, unlike Russia, Pakistan actually has a fruitful and increasingly strong defence relationship with Turkey. Furthermore, both countries are at work to connect Pakistan to big-ticket arms procurements (e.g. warships, helicopters and even drones); that cannot be said for Russia, at least at this time. While incredibly lofty in its own right, the idea of TFX coming up on the discussion table is still within the realm of reason. As a matter of fact, Turkey proceeded with the TFX in the hopes of exporting it.

But Turkey’s intentions aside, it is important to validate whether Pakistan itself could be interested in such a program. Fortunately, the PAF leadership has been relatively very open with its thoughts about its next-generation fighter needs and options. Its current commander, Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman, told PTV (a state-owned Pakistani media outlet) that the PAF was exploring its options in the ‘East’ and ‘West.’ Given the reality in front of Air Headquarters (AHQ), the PAF’s options in the East would be in the shape of Chinese platforms, namely the AVIC FC-31. But what could the PAF possibly look at from the West? An existing platform (such as the Eurofighter Typhoon) notwithstanding, the PAF’s next-generation option in the West would essentially center on the TFX. In fact, the TFX is a Western platform; the principal user is a NATO power (Turkey) and the platform’s technology progenitors are British and West European.

With the above in mind, one could plausibly suggest that the TAI TFX is an option for the PAF. However, this does not necessarily mean that the PAF would take that route. Part-two will examine the viability of the TFX in light with the PAF’s realities and alternative options.
source: http://quwa.org/2016/06/26/pakistan-interested-turkish-tfx-part-1/
 
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Lol, Turks haven't even started building their 5th generation jet...and there are already articles about Pakistan wanting it. :D

Turkish fifth generation jet is decade(s?) away from mass deployment.
 
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There is a very good chance of Pakistan joining the TFX program. However, Turkish reliance on American OEMs might be a problem for us.
The chances of Pakistan joining the TFX program, heck any 5th gen program, are next to nil. The best chance is the FC-31, but even than, it is hard to actually imagine China giving up vital technology, even to its best ally, Pakistan.
 
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Who knows what might happen in a decade but it looks like Pakistan will be going for the Chinese option.
 
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The chances of Pakistan joining the TFX program, heck any 5th gen program, are next to nil. The best chance is the FC-31, but even than, it is hard to actually imagine China giving up vital technology, even to its best ally, Pakistan.
Whether you are aware or not? and since it has been discussed already in pdf, Air Chief Sohail Amman has announced that Pakistan will indigenuously develop the next gen aircraft and preparation are already underway. Though a lot of details have not been provided as usual but what I guess it won't be J-31, though it may have elements of it. I guess PAF will do JV with China, Russia, and Turkey for the development various subsystems while keeping the charge in its hands.
 
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The chances of Pakistan joining the TFX program, heck any 5th gen program, are next to nil. The best chance is the FC-31, but even than, it is hard to actually imagine China giving up vital technology, even to its best ally, Pakistan.
So you're saying that ACM Sohail Aman was talking bullcrap when he said that PAF was looking both East and West for the next generation fighter? And no we won't be buying off the shelf. The ACM made that quite clear.
 
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PAF must become a part of TFX program whether we are getting J-31 or not, infact even if we are getting F-22. Becoming a part of the program will not only give us a confirmed 5th gen aircraft but the knowledge gain would work wonders for us. Turkey and Russia are now set to stabilize the relations and the fact that turkey has seen how helpful its NATO allies were when TAF downed Su-24. Pakistan working with China, Turkey and Russia via JV can do wonders for our defence industry, lately we have seen that the time and money invested in JFT, Super Mushak and others have started to bare fruits.
 
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So you're saying that ACM Sohail Aman was talking bullcrap when he said that PAF was looking both East and West for the next generation fighter? And no we won't be buying off the shelf. The ACM made that quite clear.
@war&peace

What ACM Aman said and what I'm saying aren't necessarily contradictory. Pakistan will not be joining any existing programs, either it will buy off shelf (which it hasn't done in a long time, for big ticket items), or it will JV with another nation. Pakistan will probably not join the TFX program, but that doesn't mean that Pakistan will not cooperate with Turkey for a custom solution (JF-17, F-22P, Al-Khalid...etc).

I sincerely believe that for Pakistan, the era of buying off the shelf systems is nearing its end. Future big ticket items will have heavy Pakistani demands for custom fits. Pakistan cannot go it alone, not right now anyway, which is why PAF will look for international partners for its next generation fighter.

If Pakistan DOES buy a fifth gen from China, most likely candidate being the FC-31, it will likely ask for major changes to fit the role Pakistan air force envisions for its next generation fighter.

So, yeah. Again, what ACM Sohail Aman said and what I'm saying, aren't necessarily contradictory.
 
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@war&peace

What ACM Aman said and what I'm saying aren't necessarily contradictory.

Pakistan will not be joining any existing programs

it will JV with another nation.

So, yeah. Again, what ACM Sohail Aman said and what I'm saying, aren't necessarily contradictory.
What's wrong with TFX? Why can the TFX be that joint venture you're talking about?
 
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What's wrong with TFX? Why can the TFX be that joint venture you're talking about?
US technology will make Pakistan reluctant to join. Despite US tech being superior to basically every other nation's, there is a matter of reliability on getting the parts without too much of a headache (political deadlocks, anti-Pakistani ferver, Indian lobbying...etc).

With Congress blocking the F-16 deal, do you really think they'd be willing to let Pakistan get their hands on next gen US tech, when they constantly accuse Pakistan of giving US tech to China?

Unless Turkey can develop and produce every single part of the next gen fighter domestically, Pakistani military circles will always view it will a weary eye.
 
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