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Is it really India?

third eye

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The writer has raised some relevant and some not so relevant issues. A well written & hard hitting article with a few ' out of the box' suggestions - not likley to be taken well on both sides.

DAWN.COM | Editorial | Is it really India?

By Pervez Hoodbhoy
Saturday, 28 Nov, 2009

FOREIGN Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi says that Pakistan is “compiling hard evidence of India’s involvement” in terrorist attacks on Pakistan’s public and its armed forces.

If he and the interior minister are correct then we must conclude that the Indians are psychotics possessed with a death wish, or are perhaps plain stupid. While India’s assistance for Baloch insurgents could conceivably make strategic sense, helping the jihadists simply does not.

As Pakistan staggers from one bombing to the other, some Indians must be secretly pleased. Indeed, there are occasional verbalisations: is this not sweet revenge for the horrors of Mumbai (allegedly) perpetrated by Lashkar-i-Taiba? Shouldn’t India feel satisfaction as Pakistan reels from the stinging poison of its domestically reared snakes?

But most Indians are probably less than enthusiastic in stoking fires across the border. In fact, the majority would like to forget that Pakistan exists. With a six per cent growth rate, booming hi-tech exports and expectations of a semi-superpower status, they feel that India has no need to engage a struggling Pakistan with its endless litany of problems.

Of course, some would like to hurt Pakistan. Extremists in India ask: shouldn’t one increase the pain of a country — with which India has fought three bloody wars — by aiding its enemies? Perhaps do another Bangladesh on Pakistan someday?

These fringe elements, fortunately, are inconsequential today. Rational self-interest demands that India not aid jihadists. Imagine the consequences if central authority in Pakistan disappears or is sharply weakened. Splintered into a hundred jihadist lashkars, each with its own agenda and tactics, Pakistan’s territory would become India’s eternal nightmare. When Mumbai-II occurs — as it surely would in such circumstances — India’s options in dealing with nuclear Pakistan would be severely limited.

The Indian army would be powerless. As the Americans have discovered at great cost, the mightiest war machines on earth cannot prevent holy warriors from crossing borders. Internal collaborators, recruited from a domestic Muslim population that feels itself alienated from Hindu-India, would connive with jihadists. Subsequently, as Indian forces retaliate against Muslims — innocent and otherwise — the action-reaction cycle would rip the country apart.

So, how can India protect itself from invaders across its western border and grave injury? Just as importantly, how can we in Pakistan assure that the fight against fanatics is not lost?

Let me make an apparently outrageous proposition: in the coming years, India’s best protection is likely to come from its traditional enemy, the Pakistan Army. Therefore, India ought to now help, not fight, against it.


This may sound preposterous. After all, the two countries have fought three and a half wars over six decades. During periods of excessive tension, they have growled at each other while meaningfully pointing towards their respective nuclear arsenals. And yet, the imperative of mutual survival makes a common defence inevitable. Given the rapidly rising threat within Pakistan, the day for joint actions may not be very far away.

Today Pakistan is bearing the brunt. Its people, government and armed forces are under unrelenting attack. South Waziristan, a war of necessity rather than of choice, will certainly not be the last one. A victory here will not end terrorism, although a stalemate will embolden jihadists in south Punjab, including Lashkar-i-Taiba and Jaish-i-Mohammad. The cancer of religious militancy has spread across Pakistan, and it will take decades to defeat.

This militancy does not merely exist because America occupies Afghanistan. A US withdrawal, while welcome, will not end Pakistan’s problems. As an ideological movement, the jihadists want to transform society as part of their wider agenda. They ride on the backs of their partners, the mainstream religious political parties like the Jamaat-i-Islami and Jamiat-i-Ulema-Pakistan. None of these have condemned the suicide bombings of Pakistani universities, schools, markets, mosques, police and army facilities.

Pakistan’s political leadership and army must not muddy the waters, especially now that public sanction has finally been obtained for fighting extremism in Swat and Waziristan. Self-deception weakens and enormously increases vulnerability. Wars can only be won if nations have a clear rallying slogan. Therefore the battle against religious extremism will require identifying it — by name — as the enemy.

India should derive no satisfaction from Pakistan’s predicament. Although religious extremists see ordinary Muslims as munafiqs (hypocrites) — and therefore free to be blown up in bazaars and mosques — they hate Hindus even more. In their calculus, hurting India would buy even more tickets for heaven than hurting Pakistan. They dream of ripping apart both societies, or starting a war — preferably nuclear — between Pakistan and India.

A common threat needs a common defence. But this is difficult unless the Pakistan-India conflict is reduced in intensity. In fact the extremist groups that threaten both countries today are an unintended consequence of Pakistan’s frustrations at Indian obduracy in Kashmir.

To create a future working alliance with Pakistan, and in deference to basic democratic principles, India must be seen as genuinely working towards some kind of resolution of the Kashmir issue. Over the past two decades India has been morally isolated from Kashmiri Muslims and continues to incur the very considerable costs of an occupying power in the Valley. Indian soldiers continue to needlessly die — and to oppress and kill Kashmiri innocents.

It is time for India to fuzz the Line of Control, make it highly permeable and demilitarise it up to some mutually negotiated depth on both sides. Without peace in Kashmir the forces of cross-border jihad, and its hate-filled holy warriors, will continue to receive unnecessary succour.

India also needs to allay Pakistan’s fears on Balochistan. Although Pakistan’s current federal structure is the cause of the problem — a fact which the government is now finally addressing through the newly announced Balochistan package — it is nevertheless possible that India is aiding some insurgent groups. Statements have been made in India that Balochistan provides New Delhi with a handle to exert pressure on Pakistan. This is unacceptable.

While there is no magic wand, confidence-building measures (CBMs) continue to be important for managing the Pakistan-India conflict and bringing down the decibel level of mutual rhetoric. To be sure, CBMs can be easily disparaged as palliatives that do not address the underlying causes of a conflict. Nevertheless, looking at those initiated over the years shows that they have held up even in adverse circumstances. More are needed.

The reason for India to want rapprochement with Pakistan, and thus end decades of hostility, has nothing to do with feelings of friendship or goodwill. It has only to do with survival. For us in Pakistan, this is even truer.

The writer teaches at Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad
 
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I was just reading this article online. At least some sane article in a major Pakistani news channel. As far as the Baloch issue goes, I would not agree until Pakistan gives some credible proof.... at whatever "suitable time" they wish to wake up.

I am more concerned about the author mentioning a Mumbai-II being possible. This is exactly what the Indian government has been telling the Pakistani govt., not to allow another such incident to be planned out of Pakistan.
 
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Great article!! :tup:

Everything is logical and with reasons. A must read for all Pakistani members.
 
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India knows that Pakistan will not become into a TTP state - what it does know is that destabilizing Pakistan to a point where its nukes security becomes questionable is in its interests. The author is really making a naive statement that many indians have made before and all these have been dealt with.

The domestically reared snakes are not TTP - those are india's. If you want to talk about Pakistan's, they are Afghan Taliban (along with US's) and Kashmiri freedom fighters.

Other than that this articles offers nothing really.
 
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Is this article written by Pervez Hoodbhoy Professor/Chairman in Physics Department Quaid-e-Azam University Islamabad.?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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Everyone knows that India desires Pakistan to remain boiling. Not collapsing, not stable. A Pakistan in some trouble keeps India happy since we are unable to take action against India and neither are the Jihadis going to take over the military assets of Pakistan.

This is the ideal situation for Indians.
 
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India knows that Pakistan will not become into a TTP state - what it does know is that destabilizing Pakistan to a point where its nukes security becomes questionable is in its interests. The author is really making a naive statement that many indians have made before and all these have been dealt with.

The domestically reared snakes are not TTP - those are india's. If you want to talk about Pakistan's, they are Afghan Taliban (along with US's) and Kashmiri freedom fighters.

Other than that this articles offers nothing really.

Then why is it that Ilyas Kashmiri and retired army officers and army medical doctors involved in terrorists attacks in Pakistan itself? And why was Baitullah Mehsud and Fazlullah referred to as a Pakistani patriots by Army officials, just a year back?
Army official calls Baitullah Mehsud, Fazlullah ‘patriots’

IF you have been following statements by As Sahab (Al Qaeda media channel) TTP and other militant groups like Hizb LeT e.t.c. you will know why they think attacking the Pakistani military is justified and it has nothing to do with their love for India.
 
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I agree with Asim here.

I would like to see India engaging with Pakistan as a friend and in fact even support the PA to maintain peace within Pakistan after we are well entrenched on Pakistan's Western flank.

Much like our relationship with our other friendly neighbour, Bangladesh.

Up until then the status quo we have chosen as our national policy towards our neighbour is the perfect stance to take.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Everyone knows that India desires Pakistan to remain boiling. Not collapsing, not stable. A Pakistan in some trouble keeps India happy since we are unable to take action against India and neither are the Jihadis going to take over the military assets of Pakistan.

This is the ideal situation for Indians.

Well, its good that you have got that impression. But from India's POV, India desires to carve out many more Bangladesh like states. Keeping the Pakistan on boil is the first step in that direction, remeber East Paksitan was also on boil, but not many in Pakistan actually believed India could do what did in 1971. RAW is very efficient in this way, it covers it tracks well and prepares the enemy for a final blow by the army. Army gives the last punch and Indian influence does the rest. This is the plan for Pakistan from the begining. Lets see, whether it works.
 
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I am more concerned about the author mentioning a Mumbai-II being possible. This is exactly what the Indian government has been telling the Pakistani govt., not to allow another such incident to be planned out of Pakistan.

Terrorists are not controlled or their activities endorsed by the govt of Pakistan. Pakistan itself is being subjected to terrorist attacks hundred times more than India. But, India always bullies Pakistan into accepting that Pakistan sponsors terrorism. How Pakistan can forecast a 2nd Bombay being orchestrated inside Pakistani territory when its govt has no control or leverage on the terrorists.

At least, Indians should be happy that Bombay was not as damaging as it is by the Mehsudi Talibans, who are bankrolled by the GoI to destabilize Pakistan.
 
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Terrorists are not controlled or their activities endorsed by the govt of Pakistan. Pakistan itself is being subjected to terrorist attacks hundred times more than India. But, India always bullies Pakistan into accepting that Pakistan sponsors terrorism. How Pakistan can forecast a 2nd Bombay being orchestrated inside Pakistani territory when its govt has no control or leverage on the terrorists.

At least, Indians should be happy that Bombay was not as damaging as it is by the Mehsudi Talibans, who are bankrolled by the GoI to destabilize Pakistan.

There are NO terrorists as such, sir. Even if they were there, they could be easily handled by nations. We are talking about proxies. Mumbai 26/11 was handiwork of proxies of PA/ISI, and similarly proxies of India/US are at work in Pakistan.
 
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Well, its good that you have got that impression. But from India's POV, India desires to carve out many more Bangladesh like states. Keeping the Pakistan on boil is the first step in that direction, remeber East Paksitan was also on boil, but not many in Pakistan actually believed India could do what did in 1971. RAW is very efficient in this way, it covers it tracks well and prepares the enemy for a final blow by the army. Army gives the last punch and Indian influence does the rest. This is the plan for Pakistan from the begining. Lets see, whether it works.
Seccession of east Pakistan was not effected by your RAW. It was effected by the miscalculating west Pakistani leaders starting from Gen. Ayub Khan, who did not give any chance to democracy. He took over the State power when the 1st Constitution was agreed upon by the then all-Pakistan leaders and a general election was to be held sometime in 1958.

Again, it was another stoneheaded Kijilbash named Gen. Yahya Khan, who did not relinquish power to the people's representatives in 1971. What your RAW could have done to the then united Pakistan, had he handed over the power?

Again, if there is any break up of the present Pakistan, it will be due to these generals, who look after the inbterest of only one ethnic group instead of all the groups. Your RAW has very little role if suddenly the Pakistani leaders change their heart and take care of all the people.

You better ask your RAW to take care of Maobadi, Kashmir as well as Assam. Assam has surely become a hotbed of terrorism.

So, do not write absurd things just by pointing to the end result.
 
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Terrorists are not controlled or their activities endorsed by the govt of Pakistan. Pakistan itself is being subjected to terrorist attacks hundred times more than India. But, India always bullies Pakistan into accepting that Pakistan sponsors terrorism. How Pakistan can forecast a 2nd Bombay being orchestrated inside Pakistani territory when its govt has no control or leverage on the terrorists.
Dude it is the proxy war we are more concerned about. You have answered your own question in the last sentence... It is the lawlessness in Pakistan which worries India... unless the GoP is willing to crack down on these activities... the terrorists will continue to grow targeting innocent people and instilling their ideologies in them... It is this ideology of hatred against people who do not support their path is what we are concerned...

At least, Indians should be happy that Bombay was not as damaging as it is by the Mehsudi Talibans, who are bankrolled by the GoI to destabilize Pakistan.
Well you can never measure the "damaging effects" of terrorism... a single innocent person killed is good enough reason for me to stand up against it... be it in my country or in my neighborhood... About the "bankrolled" statement... we will wait for the so called proofs from GoP (if and whenever they will be provided by GoP).
 
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Seccession of east Pakistan was not effected by your RAW. It was effected by the miscalculating west Pakistani leaders starting from Gen. Ayub Khan, who did not give any chance to democracy. He took over the State power when the 1st Constitution was agreed upon by the then all-Pakistan leaders and a general election was to be held sometime in 1958.

Again, it was another stoneheaded Kijilbash named Gen. Yahya Khan, who did not relinquish power to the people's representatives in 1971. What your RAW could have done to the then united Pakistan, had he handed over the power?

I agree with everything you said, sir. RAW could not have done much, if Pakistani rulers were fair to all regions. But since they were/are not. RAW exploits the situation. RAW is not the villian really, because the oppressed do get a fair solution. Obviously, Bangladeshis rule themselves today as they wish compared to the way they were treated when they were part of Pakistan. RAW's only business is to decrease anti-indianism with in the states or decrease anti-indian states, whichever is feasible and easy.

Even today, the condition of Balochistan is pretty similar to the condition of East Pakistan. Balochistan is the resource rich state of Pakistan, its population is comparatively less, so they would be pretty comfortable if Balochistan were an independent state, but still they have opted to be part of Pakistan, but they were given a raw deal, so they takeup the RAW deal.

Again, if there is any break up of the present Pakistan, it will be due to these generals, who look after the inbterest of only one ethnic group instead of all the groups. Your RAW has very little role if suddenly the Pakistani leaders change their heart and take care of all the people.

I agree, if that really happens, then RAW's job would get harder.

But, Pakistan in general, Army in particular has been more biased towards Punjab(excluding seriakis). Even Sindh, which was fairly powerful and rich in past has been reduced to the second rung, pastuns in NWFP have been treated badly, even seriakis have complaints. I cannot say more, because it might be disagreeable to members on this forum. So, yes, if suddenly knowledge dawns on pakistani rulers, then RAW would be sidelined. But for that Punjabis would have to make great sacrifices, right now, Punjabis are having a fairly bigger share of budget and resources, if proportional distribution were to take place, Punjab would considerably lose power and comforts.

You better ask your RAW to take care of Maobadi, Kashmir as well as Assam. Assam has surely become a hotbed of terrorism.

RAW's business is not internal security, that responsiblity lies with state police, IB, CRPF..etc.
 
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