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Is Iran really strong ?

Why Arabs Lose Wars

* Most Arab countries are a patchwork of different tribes and groups, and Arab leaders survive by playing one group off against another. Loyalty is to one's group, not the nation. Most countries are dominated by a single group that is usually a minority (Bedouins in Jordan, Alawites in Syria, Sunnis in Iraq, Nejdis in Saudi Arabia). All of which means that officers are assigned not by merit but by loyalty and tribal affiliation.

* Islamic schools favor rote memorization, especially of scripture. Most Islamic scholars are hostile to the concept of interpreting the Koran (considered the word of God as given to His prophet Mohammed). This has resulted in looking down on Western troops that will look something up that they don't know. Arabs prefer to fake it, and pretend it's all in their head. Improvisation and innovation is generally discouraged. Arab armies go by the book, Western armies rewrite the book and thus usually win.

* There is no real NCO corps. Officers and enlisted troops are treated like two different social castes and there is no effort to bridge the gap using career NCOs. Enlisted personnel are treated harshly. Training accidents that would end the careers of US officers are commonplace in Arab armies, and nobody cares.

* Officers are despised by their troops, and this does not bother the officers much it all. Many Arab officers simply cannot understand how treating the troops decently will make them better soldiers.

* Paranoia prevents adequate training. Arab tyrants insist that their military units have little contact with each other, thus insuring that no general can became powerful enough to overthrow them. Units are purposely kept from working together or training on a large scale. Arab generals don't have as broad a knowledge of their armed forces as do their Western counterparts. Promotions are based more on political reliability than combat proficiency. Arab leaders prefer to be feared, rather than respected, by their soldiers. This approach leads to poorly trained armies and low morale. A few rousing speeches about "Moslem brotherhood" before a war starts does little to repair the damage.

* Arab officers often do not trust each other. While an American infantry officer can be reasonably confident that the artillery officers will conduct their bombardment on time and on target, Arab infantry officers seriously doubt that their artillery will do its job on time or on target. This is a fatal attitude in combat.

* Arab military leaders consider it acceptable to lie to subordinates and allies in order to further their personal agenda. This had catastrophic consequences during all of the Arab-Israeli wars and continues to make peace difficult between Israelis and Palestinians. When called out on this behavior, Arabs will assert that they were "misunderstood."

* While American officers and NCOs are only too happy to impart their wisdom and skill to others (teaching is the ultimate expression of prestige), Arab officers try to keep any technical information and manuals secret. To Arabs, the value and prestige of an individual is based not on what he can teach, but on what he knows that no one else knows.

* While American officers thrive on competition among themselves, Arab officers avoid this as the loser would be humiliated. Better for everyone to fail together than for competition to be allowed, even if it eventually benefits everyone.

* Americans are taught leadership and technology; Arab officers are taught only technology. Leadership is given little attention as officers are assumed to know this by virtue of their social status as officers.

* Initiative is considered a dangerous trait. So subordinates prefer to fail rather than make an independent decision. Battles are micromanaged by senior generals, who prefer to suffer defeat rather than lose control of their subordinates. Even worse, an Arab officer will not tell a US ally why he cannot make the decision (or even that he cannot make it), leaving US officers angry and frustrated because the Arabs won't make a decision. The Arab officers simply will not admit that they do not have that authority.

* Lack of initiative makes it difficult for Arab armies to maintain modern weapons. Complex modern weapons require on the spot maintenance, and that means delegating authority, information, and tools. Arab armies avoid doing this and prefer to use easier to control central repair shops. This makes the timely maintenance of weapons difficult.

* Security is maniacal. Everything even vaguely military is top secret. While US Army promotion lists are routinely published, this rarely happens in Arab armies. Officers are suddenly transferred without warning to keep them from forging alliances or networks. Any team spirit among officers is discouraged.

* All these traits were reinforced, from the 1950s to the 1990s, by Soviet advisors. To the Russians, anything military was secret, enlisted personnel were scum, there was no functional NCO system, and everyone was paranoid about everyone else. These were not "communist" traits, but Russian customs that had existed for centuries and were adopted by the communists to make their dictatorship more secure from rebellion. Arab dictators avidly accepted this kind of advice, but are still concerned about how rapidly the communist dictatorships all came tumbling down between 1989-91.

The Arab armies are paper tigers compared to Iran
 
Iran builds their own stuff internally. Iran is not a puppet of USA, thats why they are hated and lied about.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Arabs are they worst enemies Oil and Money are corrupting them out of all the countries in the Muslim world Iran and turkey have been on a scientific boom, but what of the Arabs ? Still buying obsolete weaponry from the west there recruiting soldiers from other countries no investment in Science or Tech or building a homegrown weapons industry. when the oil drys up they will only have to blame themselves.
 
Both have solcialist inneffective economies, both invest lots of in rockets and nukes, both heavily depend on oil exports, both have only one party allowed (communist or Islamist), they have politburo called council of experts. Of course USSR was far more scientifically advanced than Iran.

No, No, No and No. Do not even try to compare them. Pretty funny comparison, with respect. Do not even know were to start from... How about ALL? Nothing in common, like 2 different worlds...
 
I'm really only a casual observer of the ME and the culture of the region but this list rings true for me.

Why Arabs Lose Wars

* Most Arab countries are a patchwork of different tribes and groups, and Arab leaders survive by playing one group off against another. Loyalty is to one's group, not the nation. Most countries are dominated by a single group that is usually a minority (Bedouins in Jordan, Alawites in Syria, Sunnis in Iraq, Nejdis in Saudi Arabia). All of which means that officers are assigned not by merit but by loyalty and tribal affiliation.

* Islamic schools favor rote memorization, especially of scripture. Most Islamic scholars are hostile to the concept of interpreting the Koran (considered the word of God as given to His prophet Mohammed). This has resulted in looking down on Western troops that will look something up that they don't know. Arabs prefer to fake it, and pretend it's all in their head. Improvisation and innovation is generally discouraged. Arab armies go by the book, Western armies rewrite the book and thus usually win.

* There is no real NCO corps. Officers and enlisted troops are treated like two different social castes and there is no effort to bridge the gap using career NCOs. Enlisted personnel are treated harshly. Training accidents that would end the careers of US officers are commonplace in Arab armies, and nobody cares.

* Officers are despised by their troops, and this does not bother the officers much it all. Many Arab officers simply cannot understand how treating the troops decently will make them better soldiers.

* Paranoia prevents adequate training. Arab tyrants insist that their military units have little contact with each other, thus insuring that no general can became powerful enough to overthrow them. Units are purposely kept from working together or training on a large scale. Arab generals don't have as broad a knowledge of their armed forces as do their Western counterparts. Promotions are based more on political reliability than combat proficiency. Arab leaders prefer to be feared, rather than respected, by their soldiers. This approach leads to poorly trained armies and low morale. A few rousing speeches about "Moslem brotherhood" before a war starts does little to repair the damage.

* Arab officers often do not trust each other. While an American infantry officer can be reasonably confident that the artillery officers will conduct their bombardment on time and on target, Arab infantry officers seriously doubt that their artillery will do its job on time or on target. This is a fatal attitude in combat.

* Arab military leaders consider it acceptable to lie to subordinates and allies in order to further their personal agenda. This had catastrophic consequences during all of the Arab-Israeli wars and continues to make peace difficult between Israelis and Palestinians. When called out on this behavior, Arabs will assert that they were "misunderstood."

* While American officers and NCOs are only too happy to impart their wisdom and skill to others (teaching is the ultimate expression of prestige), Arab officers try to keep any technical information and manuals secret. To Arabs, the value and prestige of an individual is based not on what he can teach, but on what he knows that no one else knows.

* While American officers thrive on competition among themselves, Arab officers avoid this as the loser would be humiliated. Better for everyone to fail together than for competition to be allowed, even if it eventually benefits everyone.

* Americans are taught leadership and technology; Arab officers are taught only technology. Leadership is given little attention as officers are assumed to know this by virtue of their social status as officers.

* Initiative is considered a dangerous trait. So subordinates prefer to fail rather than make an independent decision. Battles are micromanaged by senior generals, who prefer to suffer defeat rather than lose control of their subordinates. Even worse, an Arab officer will not tell a US ally why he cannot make the decision (or even that he cannot make it), leaving US officers angry and frustrated because the Arabs won't make a decision. The Arab officers simply will not admit that they do not have that authority.

* Lack of initiative makes it difficult for Arab armies to maintain modern weapons. Complex modern weapons require on the spot maintenance, and that means delegating authority, information, and tools. Arab armies avoid doing this and prefer to use easier to control central repair shops. This makes the timely maintenance of weapons difficult.

* Security is maniacal. Everything even vaguely military is top secret. While US Army promotion lists are routinely published, this rarely happens in Arab armies. Officers are suddenly transferred without warning to keep them from forging alliances or networks. Any team spirit among officers is discouraged.

* All these traits were reinforced, from the 1950s to the 1990s, by Soviet advisors. To the Russians, anything military was secret, enlisted personnel were scum, there was no functional NCO system, and everyone was paranoid about everyone else. These were not "communist" traits, but Russian customs that had existed for centuries and were adopted by the communists to make their dictatorship more secure from rebellion. Arab dictators avidly accepted this kind of advice, but are still concerned about how rapidly the communist dictatorships all came tumbling down between 1989-91.

The Arab armies are paper tigers compared to Iran
 
They are better in science than Arab states, but are much much than Turkey. 80% of Iran's exports still crude oil.

Yeah Turkey is the most successful in the region IMO, probably due to its secular and republican founding by Ataturk.


During Iran-Iraq war Iraqi army fought better than Iranian.

Iran kind of ran out of options and had to throw untrained people into battle, so of course the Iraqis fought better than the Iranians. It was still a stalemate in the end in my opinion.
 
500 > why you say such strange facts?

1/ what does it mean Iraqis are better than Iranians during the war?
If you would have done in your life a war you would not make these comments.
We won this war i could say but we both lost a lot.
Cardshap > at the beginning it was the army the same of the shah . it was needed to have the pasdarans and the basiji
and this helped for the war
it was terrible for us. so many died.
Villages were completely destroyed and gaz was eavily used by saddam
it is really strange to read strange comments about a war when from someone who was not there to see it. i wish for 500 not know in all her life what is this kind of war.

2/ council of experts a politburo???
it means you really know nothing about our country
council of experts having very very few power: election of leader but no decision about politics
the real power in Iran is in hands of the leader. he doesn't care about council of experts.
in the republic there is a judiciary system which leaded by someone named by the leader and minister of justice is just have nothing to do with governement too: he obeys to the leader
you have parliament you have government > they have nothing to do either with leader (even if undirectly HE decides who could be candidate, not him directly but Janati) and nothing to do with council of experts
khobregan (council of experts) is really without real power than electing the next leader when Khamenei will die

most of members of it, they criticized the government repression in Iran. But they are powerless.
The son of Khamenei is leading the pressure group, the group which dedicated to beat protesters and opposition, and his groups spending time to insult the grand ayatollahs who open their mouth to criticize

but it is very common from people who don't know my country
"country of ayatollahs" "ayatollahs having power"
this is simple view on the real power in Iran
and by the way the pasdarans having half of the Iranian economy
and they entered politics when Khomeiny, the creator of our republic, said it was forbidden that army or basiji could either do politics or business
 
The Arabs are they worst enemies Oil and Money are corrupting them out of all the countries in the Muslim world Iran and turkey have been on a scientific boom, but what of the Arabs ? Still buying obsolete weaponry from the west there recruiting soldiers from other countries no investment in Science or Tech or building a homegrown weapons industry. when the oil drys up they will only have to blame themselves.

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 PM ----------

I mean no Disrespect to my Arab friends Iv been to the Middle East and its a beautiful place despite what the western media says and its progressing take the middle east protest overthrowing dictators who are holding them back, my opinion is the US is turning Muslim vs Muslim, The Arab Awakening is happening I say the Arab world is in need of an Arab Ataturk.
 
Is Iran really strong ? or its just a castle of delusions ?

Let's read some facts and know the answer

In Iran, there is the largest number of armed opposition groups in the world, there is real internal war in Iran, These armed groups are demanding independence for their people, Kurds, Arabs, Baluchis, Turkmen, Azerbaijani and many other ethnics in Iran, They all have armed groups calling for independence from Iran

iranfuture.jpg
[/QUOTE]

balochistan is NOT a seperate country-- its considered offensive to us
 
Why Arabs Lose Wars

* Most Arab countries are a patchwork of different tribes and groups, and Arab leaders survive by playing one group off against another. Loyalty is to one's group, not the nation. Most countries are dominated by a single group that is usually a minority (Bedouins in Jordan, Alawites in Syria, Sunnis in Iraq, Nejdis in Saudi Arabia). All of which means that officers are assigned not by merit but by loyalty and tribal affiliation.

* Islamic schools favor rote memorization, especially of scripture. Most Islamic scholars are hostile to the concept of interpreting the Koran (considered the word of God as given to His prophet Mohammed). This has resulted in looking down on Western troops that will look something up that they don't know. Arabs prefer to fake it, and pretend it's all in their head. Improvisation and innovation is generally discouraged. Arab armies go by the book, Western armies rewrite the book and thus usually win.

* There is no real NCO corps. Officers and enlisted troops are treated like two different social castes and there is no effort to bridge the gap using career NCOs. Enlisted personnel are treated harshly. Training accidents that would end the careers of US officers are commonplace in Arab armies, and nobody cares.

* Officers are despised by their troops, and this does not bother the officers much it all. Many Arab officers simply cannot understand how treating the troops decently will make them better soldiers.

* Paranoia prevents adequate training. Arab tyrants insist that their military units have little contact with each other, thus insuring that no general can became powerful enough to overthrow them. Units are purposely kept from working together or training on a large scale. Arab generals don't have as broad a knowledge of their armed forces as do their Western counterparts. Promotions are based more on political reliability than combat proficiency. Arab leaders prefer to be feared, rather than respected, by their soldiers. This approach leads to poorly trained armies and low morale. A few rousing speeches about "Moslem brotherhood" before a war starts does little to repair the damage.

* Arab officers often do not trust each other. While an American infantry officer can be reasonably confident that the artillery officers will conduct their bombardment on time and on target, Arab infantry officers seriously doubt that their artillery will do its job on time or on target. This is a fatal attitude in combat.

* Arab military leaders consider it acceptable to lie to subordinates and allies in order to further their personal agenda. This had catastrophic consequences during all of the Arab-Israeli wars and continues to make peace difficult between Israelis and Palestinians. When called out on this behavior, Arabs will assert that they were "misunderstood."

* While American officers and NCOs are only too happy to impart their wisdom and skill to others (teaching is the ultimate expression of prestige), Arab officers try to keep any technical information and manuals secret. To Arabs, the value and prestige of an individual is based not on what he can teach, but on what he knows that no one else knows.

* While American officers thrive on competition among themselves, Arab officers avoid this as the loser would be humiliated. Better for everyone to fail together than for competition to be allowed, even if it eventually benefits everyone.

* Americans are taught leadership and technology; Arab officers are taught only technology. Leadership is given little attention as officers are assumed to know this by virtue of their social status as officers.

* Initiative is considered a dangerous trait. So subordinates prefer to fail rather than make an independent decision. Battles are micromanaged by senior generals, who prefer to suffer defeat rather than lose control of their subordinates. Even worse, an Arab officer will not tell a US ally why he cannot make the decision (or even that he cannot make it), leaving US officers angry and frustrated because the Arabs won't make a decision. The Arab officers simply will not admit that they do not have that authority.

* Lack of initiative makes it difficult for Arab armies to maintain modern weapons. Complex modern weapons require on the spot maintenance, and that means delegating authority, information, and tools. Arab armies avoid doing this and prefer to use easier to control central repair shops. This makes the timely maintenance of weapons difficult.

* Security is maniacal. Everything even vaguely military is top secret. While US Army promotion lists are routinely published, this rarely happens in Arab armies. Officers are suddenly transferred without warning to keep them from forging alliances or networks. Any team spirit among officers is discouraged.

* All these traits were reinforced, from the 1950s to the 1990s, by Soviet advisors. To the Russians, anything military was secret, enlisted personnel were scum, there was no functional NCO system, and everyone was paranoid about everyone else. These were not "communist" traits, but Russian customs that had existed for centuries and were adopted by the communists to make their dictatorship more secure from rebellion. Arab dictators avidly accepted this kind of advice, but are still concerned about how rapidly the communist dictatorships all came tumbling down between 1989-91.

The Arab armies are paper tigers compared to Iran

spot on.

communism makes better soldiers.

RUSSIANISM makes worse soldiers. The Czar lost his fair share of wars first to Britain then to Japan then to Germany.

Arabs were trained by RUSSIANS and cannot even beat Israel combined in the 1960's and 70's, the same time period Vietnam was turning the US Air Force into scrap metal.
 
1/ what does it mean Iraqis are better than Iranians during the war?
If you would have done in your life a war you would not make these comments.
We won this war i could say but we both lost a lot.
Cardshap > at the beginning it was the army the same of the shah . it was needed to have the pasdarans and the basiji
and this helped for the war
it was terrible for us. so many died.

I agree, it was heart breaking to read about the waste of life during that war. In my opinion Iranians fought very bravely and I found myself rooting for Iran as the underdog reading the history of the Iran-Iraq war.
 
Thanks, if the Arabs overcame these they could be a force to reckon but whats holding them back is tribalism, paranoia, fear during the there wars with Israel the Arabs were fearing after Israels defeat they would turn on each other, maintenance exp: the Americans maintain all of Saudi Arabia weapons, women is another issue almost all Muslim countries let women fight exclusion of the Arabs. they Still buy obsolete weaponry from the west and recruiting soldiers from other countries no investment in Science or Tech or building a homegrown weapons industry. when the oil drys up they will only have to blame themselves. I believe the Protest are in the Middle east are good the young secular generation can change alot of these issues.
 
Thanks, if the Arabs overcame these they could be a force to reckon but whats holding them back is tribalism, paranoia, fear during the there wars with Israel the Arabs were fearing after Israels defeat they would turn on each other, maintenance exp: the Americans maintain all of Saudi Arabia weapons, women is another issue almost all Muslim countries let women fight exclusion of the Arabs. they Still buy obsolete weaponry from the west and recruiting soldiers from other countries no investment in Science or Tech or building a homegrown weapons industry. when the oil drys up they will only have to blame themselves. I believe the Protest are in the Middle east are good the young secular generation can change alot of these issues.

Nah, they're far too gone. They're going to go back to the stone age within 30 years. Let's see if their rusting F-16s can feed a country with food resources for only 20% the population.

I guarentee you within 50 years later, Saudis will be illegal immigrants in Zimbabwe and the Congo. I have far more confidence in the future of Zimbabwe and the Congo than I do in that of Saudi Arabia.
 
Nah, they're far too gone. They're going to go back to the stone age within 30 years. Let's see if their rusting F-16s can feed a country with food resources for only 20% the population.

I guarentee you within 50 years later, Saudis will be illegal immigrants in Zimbabwe and the Congo. I have far more confidence in the future of Zimbabwe and the Congo than I do in that of Saudi Arabia.

Personally I think, when the oil state collpase, the rich ones will flee to their villa in the French Riviera and the rest of the people will start ripping each other apart.
 

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