Is India Panicking In Ladakh!

[Joe Shearer]

And you REALLY believe that america would intervene against China on behalf of india???????....................keep going!........

Now do you see why I laugh at you? This is three times in a row that you have understood me to say the opposite of what I am saying.

Its not that simple a walkover, in the present domestic, regional and global environment, for either Chinese, Indians or Pakistanis......

You think I have a snowball's chance in hell of convincing these military experts that a combined Sino-Pak victory over India is imminent?

I am making sure only that our case does not fail by default; otherwise dealing with some of these apes is truly an intellectual ordeal.

 

[zeeshe100]

agar india china main bari jang hoti hai toh Pakistan ko Kashmir main jang shoro karna faidemand rahe ga

 

[Joe Shearer]

agar india china main bari jang hoti hai toh Pakistan ko Kashmir main jang shoro karna faidemand rahe ga

Now WHY didn't anyone think of this before?

 

[PanzerKiel]

I agree Sir!

However, one cannot deny that China has grabbed every possible initiative, and is (very rapidly) building it. FOr example:

1. They are the first to reach the (potential) battle ground, occupy the positions they want. Interestingly, in this way, they have reduced the chances of war.

2. They have not lost international reputation, and have not projected themselves as the aggressors. They have carved out the legitimacy of being where there are by calling Indians to be ones to change the legal definition of disputed territory.

3. They clearly have blocked the areas from where India could exert initiative attack on Pakistan. This includes Galwan valley - which, apparently, is not even a disputed territory.

4. They are openly refusing to listen to Indians, and refusing to go back.

5. Still! they have left the initiative to start the war up to Indians.

Exactly, which brings us to some interesting questions needing answers....

Did the Chinese make these ingresses with forces already available at these locations (the minimum deployed) or did they pump in more to make these probes?

If additional Chinese forces were inducted, why their buildup, move and assembly of all these forces were not detected in time? (akin to what IA 121 Brigade did in Kargil...as per Gen V P Malik......sending patrols on papers, giving All Ok to superiors until the infiltration was detected late, issue of Bajrang Post etc)

Present situation reminds me of 1962 again.....Chinese did the same, issue got internationalized, Indians are giving all the wrong signals to their audience, their audience is asking for action just like they asked for in 1962.....then in 1962 Chinese unilaterally withdrew WELL into their own area, showing to the world that they did all this without any military pressure from India, giving India no chance to prove their military might...

Another conclusion which can be drawn from the present crisis is that, like 1962, we may witness a massive permanent deployment of IA, a permanent inducted of regular forces in these areas.....which means addition infra (road and accommodation) are likely to come up....

India wants to play the LongGame with China...

In the current Stand-off India would rather buy time and strech it till winter..hoping that the HarshWinter does its bidding...not a bad strategy!!!

In post 1962 time, this is exactly what was demanded by Indian critics, as to what Indians should have done in 1962...

 

[Enigma SIG]

Another conclusion which can be drawn from the present crisis is that, like 1962, we may witness a massive permanent deployment of IA, a permanent inducted of regular forces in these areas.....which means addition infra (road and accommodation) are likely to come up....

Why would China give India an excuse to beef up their military and infrastructure? Maybe i'm missing something because I do not have a military background.

 

[Feng Leng]

India wants to play the LongGame with China...

In the current Stand-off India would rather buy time and strech it till winter..hoping that the HarshWinter does its bidding...not a bad strategy!!!

The Context of the Chinese build-up is far more interesting, subtle...multi-dimmensional...

What is Win-Win for China will be percieved as Win-Loose by India...

For now India is engaging China through 'talks'...while bring its troop strength upto par with the Chinese...at the sametime India is accelerating the StrategicFramework with the US led CombinedWest....

Obivously, this is not lost on the Chinese either...

Unlike on the CeaseFireLine ...the Longest TrenchWarfare in History... the Chinese won't be bogged down.

The most interesting aspect of the current Stand-off is the Muteness of the ChineseMedia... unlike Doklam where it was spitting fire as if Indians were reaching Shanghai...

Subtle, subtle...they become Soundless...

Mysterious, mysterious... the become Formless...

Pakistan shall tread extremely carefully... and we are NOT making CeaseFireLine hot to give Indians another narrative...if anything... it will be just Tit-for-Tat ...nothing out of the ordinary... while we keep coordination of with the Chinese.

Unlike 71 ... the Chinese now have investments and future plans to protect in Pakistan... so, coordination will be quite deep!

Mangus

It's not actually true that the Chinese media has remained silent. During Doklam, India crossing the international border took the Chinese leadership by surprise because there were too many decision makers who remained naïve about India. We were on the defensive. Since then, the India lovers have been purged. In Ladakh today, China took the initiative to make a demonstration of strength to the Indians. So obviously the demonstration of strength speaks for itself and the media need not rally the nation toward a common threat.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Why would China give India an excuse to beef up their military and infrastructure? Maybe i'm missing something because I do not have a military background.

Let me give you another perspective, another way to look at things...

what if the end result is...

Chinese have managed to lure in considerable Indian forces at a place of their own choosing....just like once you have a wound or injury, blood automatically rushes to that location which induced swelling and speeds up blood flow....

It is not at all easy to bring in, accommodate and then sustain a big military force in these harsh areas (IA found this out in Op Trident against Pakistan in 1988, once 6 Mountain Division was hurriedly inducted into Ladakh area)

Indians, have just been getting a bit more comfortable as far as Corps, Command and Army reserves are concerned, which had actually gave them several new military options against Pakistan in Kashmir, Sialkot and Shakergarh sectors...now undoubtedly ATLEAST part of these will have to be diverted to the present incursion points, since already deployed defensive formations cannot be re-deployed...

It may seem like a replay of what Indians did in post 1962......a reason to further expand their conventional forces, no one will say them NO to raising of new formations, along with same for IAF as well...

 

[Enigma SIG]

Let me give you another perspective, another way to look at things...

what if the end result is...

Chinese have managed to lure in considerable Indian forces at a place of their own choosing....just like once you have a wound or injury, blood automatically rushes to that location which induced swelling and speeds up blood flow....

It is not at all easy to bring in, accommodate and then sustain a big military force in these harsh areas (IA found this out in Op Trident against Pakistan in 1988, once 6 Mountain Division was hurriedly inducted into Ladakh area)

Indians, have just been getting a bit more comfortable as far as Corps, Command and Army reserves are concerned, which had actually gave them several new military options against Pakistan in Kashmir, Sialkot and Shakergarh sectors...now undoubtedly ATLEAST part of these will have to be diverted to the present incursion points, since already deployed defensive formations cannot be re-deployed...

It may seem like a replay of what Indians did in post 1962......a reason to further expand their conventional forces, no one will say them NO to raising of new formations, along with same for IAF as well...

So does this speak of a concerted effort by both PA and the PLA to route the IA in certain sectors as you just mentioned? Considering this, is this just posturing or do you figure it part of a larger strategy with CPEC/G-B being in the limelight again recently.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

It may seem like a replay of what Indians did in post 1962......a reason to further expand their conventional forces, no one will say them NO to raising of new formations, along with same for IAF as well...

Looks like bad news for us than

 

[PanzerKiel]

So does this speak of a concerted effort by both PA and the PLA to route the IA in certain sectors as you just mentioned? Considering this, is this just posturing or do you figure it part of a larger strategy with CPEC/G-B being in the limelight again recently.

I dont think so that it is a pre-planned combined effort of PA and PLA....

in this case, i dont know why the Indian leadership is replaying 1962, Indian leadership cannot come out on the top with what they did in 1962.....see, we are again hearing clamors asking IA to take actions against PLA, like we heard in 1962....but for obvious reasons, IA / IAF didnot come out offensively against PLAF in 1962, and is also unable to come out today as well...US at that time was engaged in Cuban Missile Crisis, Cold War and pre-Vietnam buildup, today US is involved in a trade war and quelling riots at home, they just called back a sizeable military contingent from Europe, are they in a position to intervene in South Asia....?

I dont think so that it is a pre-planned combined effort of PA and PLA....

in this case, i dont know why the Indian leadership is replaying 1962, Indian leadership cannot come out on the top with what they did in 1962.....see, we are again hearing clamors asking IA to take actions against PLA, like we heard in 1962....but for obvious reasons, IA / IAF didnot come out offensively against PLAF in 1962, and is also unable to come out today as well...US at that time was engaged in Cuban Missile Crisis, Cold War and pre-Vietnam buildup, today US is involved in a trade war and quelling riots at home, they just called back a sizeable military contingent from Europe, are they in a position to intervene in South Asia....?

As far is PA is concerned, they will be more happy by just observing whats happening, moreover, actually PA might have gained several military options in Kashmir since IA is fully engaged (physically and in cognitive domain) against China...

I agree Sir!

However, one cannot deny that China has grabbed every possible initiative, and is (very rapidly) building it. FOr example:

1. They are the first to reach the (potential) battle ground, occupy the positions they want. Interestingly, in this way, they have reduced the chances of war.

2. They have not lost international reputation, and have not projected themselves as the aggressors. They have carved out the legitimacy of being where there are by calling Indians to be ones to change the legal definition of disputed territory.

3. They clearly have blocked the areas from where India could exert initiative attack on Pakistan. This includes Galwan valley - which, apparently, is not even a disputed territory.

4. They are openly refusing to listen to Indians, and refusing to go back.

5. Still! they have left the initiative to start the war up to Indians.

and please do not call me sir, i am just like your younger brother...you are about a decade ahead of me as far as age is concerned.

Looks like bad news for us than

Depends how you look at it.....raising new formations is no joke, it presses your economy hard, pockets get emptied....wasnt someone mentioning about Indian 500 Billion dollars reserves?

 

[PanzerKiel]

As far is PA is concerned, they will be more happy by just observing whats happening

on a lighter note....Capri ka nashta would be even better..... @Enigma SIG

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

wasnt someone mentioning about Indian 500 Billion dollars reserves?

Sir unke paas paisa hai bohot. Unki awaam apki awaam se ziada nationalistic and PM Loving hai

 

[Enigma SIG]

I dont think so that it is a pre-planned combined effort of PA and PLA....

in this case, i dont know why the Indian leadership is replaying 1962, Indian leadership cannot come out on the top with what they did in 1962.....see, we are again hearing clamors asking IA to take actions against PLA, like we heard in 1962....but for obvious reasons, IA / IAF didnot come out offensively against PLAF in 1962, and is also unable to come out today as well...US at that time was engaged in Cuban Missile Crisis, Cold War and pre-Vietnam buildup, today US is involved in a trade war and quelling riots at home, they just called back a sizeable military contingent from Europe, are they in a position to intervene in South Asia....?

I don't think the US would come out openly to the defense of India even if thresholds are crossed. Given that the US didn't budge on the current incursions by China I am inclined to think they don't care.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Sir unke paas paisa hai bohot. Unki awaam apki awaam se ziada nationalistic and PM Loving hai

Bhai un k kharchay bhi buhat hain....
moreover, aap ko kis ne roka hai apne PM ko supprt karne sai?

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

actually PA might have gained several military options in Kashmir since IA is fully engaged (physically and in cognitive domain) against China...

Just a matter of time. It would vanish in 1 year I think. They have Winter Gap coming up