Is Dassault Raffale a Wrong choice by India?

[sardar1987]

We are investing and will invest in defence R&D no matter what but we can't wait for DRDO and HAL products. They promise big and fulfill little. Thats why armed forces are looking at alternative sources outside India.

Do you know about latest defence acquisition policy?

Rafale will be produced in India and half of the contract value will be spent on HAL and other facilities. Don't you think this will help our defence PSUs?

Yaar who is asking them to give us a plane??
I am saying privatize them and invest heavely for 8-10 years thats it

AND MEANWHILE GET SOMETHING COMPARABLE TO RAFALE LIKE SU-35

Sure it cannot match rafale fully but its good enough for china as it won't be inducting j-20 till 2020 and by that time we will have fgfa(2022)

If we do this,we may also have higher thrust kaveri by that time.............which will be a gamechanger





1

Yaar who is asking them to give us a plane??
I am saying privatize them and invest heavely for 8-10 years thats it

AND MEANWHILE GET SOMETHING COMPARABLE TO RAFALE LIKE SU-35

Sure it cannot match rafale fully but its good enough for china as it won't be inducting j-20 till 2020 and by that time we will have fgfa(2022)

If we do this,we may also have higher thrust kaveri by that time.............which will be a gamechanger





1

See rafale will help us just like su-30 helped us

IN NUTSHELL----IT WON'T HELP

1)We will get no engine tech

2)no aesa tech(only source codes)

3)no spectra tech(impossible)

So what will we get

ans----a very capable plane but in terms of tech to hal--ghanta

 

[SRP]

We are not a 8 trillion dollar economy that we can't compromise on these things.......and such attitude of buying such expensive stuff has taken its toll on local industry that gets no money.................see for kaveri's example


They gave only 650 million dollars in 15-20 years like 20 -30 per year??
what do u expect?pratt and whitney f-135?

this whole thing is ludicrous

Dude Kaveri already been ready but in does not have the required thrust to power single engined LCA. You can't say kaveri is a failure. Kaveri will be the engine for our future UCAV.

After investing so much on their engines even china can't produce a reliable engine. They are still importing Russian engines. Making engine is also like sending satellites into orbit which only few countries can achieve.

You are saying we can buy su-35 over Rafale but we are getting the equivalent or more in the form of Super Sukhoi and it will also cost us more than 100 million which is equal to rafale.

 

[sardar1987]

Right now

1)We have no wind tunnel in india

2)No rcs and radar testing station

How about we concentrate on these things from money saved?

And su-35 is not that bad in my opinion

 

[sardar1987]

Dude Kaveri already been ready but in does not have the required thrust to power single engined LCA. You can't say kaveri is a failure. Kaveri will be the engine for our future UCAV.

After investing so much on their engines even china can't produce a reliable engine. They are still importing Russian engines. Making engine is also like sending satellites into orbit which only few countries can achieve.

You are saying we can buy su-35 over Rafale but we are getting the equivalent or more in the form of Super Sukhoi and it will also cost us more than 100 million which is equal to rafale.

As for china dude we are nowhere near so keep them out

Type on google..........china has cleared to invest 16 billion $ in engines alone for 10 years something

What steps have we taken?
answer-again ghanta

 

[surya kiran]

Man u are right..........so it means we will never start producing anything???
This is unacceptable,,but how do u hold hal responsible and drdo for the matter when u DON'T INVEST ANY MONEY??
Where will money come from if we keep on spending like on rafale deal......we have to compromise short term situation inorder to kick local industry to do well

And by the way we can have at least su-35 if mig 35 is not good enough,still saves a lot of money for research

Seriously?

 

[Anurag Rathore]

Why not buy mig 35 and upgrade its aesa with israeli aesa or use our own aesa being developed for tejas on it??
Pakki pakai kheer khane ki aadat aachi nahi

mate i said the same to go for mig 35 .. :-D

 

[sardar1987]

Seriously?

SURE...............totally convinced

The flaw in su-35 are 2

1) pesa radar

2) ew suite not up to mark

solution

1)niip no50 aesa is ready and could be integrated
2)consider israeli ew suite

 

[Anurag Rathore]

Mig 35 is a derivative of Mig29 which we are using from 80s. It has few new technology and can't be compared to Rafale. It has problem in itself. Even Russian Air force showing little interest in it. Western weapons don't need much of maintenance as Russian weapons need. Life cycle cost is much low for Rafale than Mig35. Rafale is already proven in Mali, war in Afghanistan. Rafale has some amazing technogies like SPECTRA only after F22's ...(i don't remember that name). Rafale has an AESA radar which lacks in Mig35. Western weapons will give us more advantageous position than Russian weapons in a war. People why thinks quantity can achieve more over quality.

As far as i know mig 35 has Phazotron Zhuk AE AESA radar
and raffale Thales RBE2 radar

Do you think our DRDO and private players with zero knowledge of building a trainer let alone a 4.5 gen fighter in 10 year period. Can you trust on them? Answer is big NO.

You are talking about price of Rafale. Let me tell you something the upgrade of super sukhoi is also going to be over 100 million per aircraft. Do you know what is the RCS of Sukhoi against Rafale? If you want best you have to give money for it. Rafale is best in its own right.

Mate know one is born with gold spoon
so is indian defence they need to learn from life
and learning requires practical
nd u mean we shud continue buying foreign stuff and never think to manufacture ours

 

[Anurag Rathore]

Right now

1)We have no wind tunnel in india

2)No rcs and radar testing station

How about we concentrate on these things from money saved?

And su-35 is not that bad in my opinion

Raffale is no match for su35 man
raffale is way inferior
infact 1 su 35= 2 raffales
i mean su35 is masterpiece

 

[kbd-raaf]

Right now

1)We have no wind tunnel in india

2)No rcs and radar testing station

How about we concentrate on these things from money saved?

And su-35 is not that bad in my opinion

Lol, there are plenty of wind tunnels in India. Don't be silly.

 

[sardar1987]

Yaar what are you ranting about? Seriously? You are wrong on all counts. ToT, Mig-35, Kaveri, local industry and HAL.I pointed out the same and you side stepped the points.

You are simply farting around in all the thread with half baked information. Why don't you spend some time learning and reading?

25 to 30 years of what? Developing the LCA? Do you have any idea what it was about or did you just wake up in the morning and decide, I need to brain fart today? The 35 number you are quoting is a part of the project not complete. Again, had you gone through the threads you would have found this out. If you had spent a minute on reading the MMRCA thread you would realise what the problem was. Your complete point of the Mig35 + AESE is voila super duper again fails.

READ man! Stop making a fool of yourself.

Don't show off ur knowledge.......i know what i am saying
The problem india was facing was funds back then and now we have money and what are we doing??

1)no r and d

2)buying everything off shelf(i consider assembly too as equivalent of buying)

3)So right now def we made wrong choice as we could have done better

 

[SRP]

Yaar who is asking them to give us a plane??
I am saying privatize them and invest heavely for 8-10 years thats it

AND MEANWHILE GET SOMETHING COMPARABLE TO RAFALE LIKE SU-35

Sure it cannot match rafale fully but its good enough for china as it won't be inducting j-20 till 2020 and by that time we will have fgfa(2022)

If we do this,we may also have higher thrust kaveri by that time.............which will be a gamechanger





1



See rafale will help us just like su-30 helped us

IN NUTSHELL----IT WON'T HELP

1)We will get no engine tech

2)no aesa tech(only source codes)

3)no spectra tech(impossible)

So what will we get

ans----a very capable plane but in terms of tech to hal--ghanta

Who said this to you that we are not going to get these techs from them? May be they will hesitate to provide techs for engines but for others I see no reasons for providing us the tech.

 

[Anurag Rathore]

SURE...............totally convinced

The flaw in su-35 are 2

1) pesa radar

2) ew suite not up to mark

solution

1)niip no50 aesa is ready and could be integrated
2)consider israeli ew suite

Whats the prob raffale has Thales RBE2 radar it Will be inegrated with AESA radar nd russians are not fools they are the best at upgrading su-35will def have AESA

 

[SRP]

Right now

1)We have no wind tunnel in india

2)No rcs and radar testing station

How about we concentrate on these things from money saved?

And su-35 is not that bad in my opinion

Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. Wind tunnel testing center is not in India how the hell we tested our LCA! RCS and radar testing centers are also present in India. You have to look into corresponding sticky threads to get more knowledge about it.

definitely a country where more than 50% don't have electricity
45%-55% population is living in slums
55% people are illiterate
such type of investment definitely wrong decision
no country is not want to attack issues can easily be resolved
but due to India small neighboring countries fells fears
kindly change your minds
winning hearts is better than occupying lands

Stop trolling. We can say the same about you also.

 

[sardar1987]

Who said this to you that we are not going to get these techs from them? May be they will hesitate to provide techs for engines but for others I see no reasons for providing us the tech.

U know the bread and butter of rafale is ddm tech(spectra suite ets)
You will be a fool to even think we will get that tech..............even after 10 years of operating su-30 with complete tot(as if it really exists) we cannot even make a pulse doppler radar or even a radome itself!!

So there are only 2 options

1)either hal is super dumb
2) tot is a joke,,,,we just integrate stuff,thats all

i think option 2 is better