Is alcohol available for pakistani military personnel?

[Kasrkin]

However, they are requested not to call themselves ‘Mujahid’ and not make rest of the nation fool in the names of ‘Jihad’ and ‘Mujahid’.

No one is doing that over here. No one is making anyone "fool" over anything. Everyone has flaws, but thats not for you or me to judge. Allah will judge them and their sacrifices but its not right for us to generalize either way. The Pakistan Army is a complicated organization and like every institution of such vastness they have their variety. We should stick to verifiable particulars that can be discussed instead of making sensational and stereotypical sweeping remarks that serve no purpose.

 

[qsaark]

We should stick to verifiable particulars that can be discussed instead of making sensational and stereotypical sweeping remarks that serve no purpose.

I am not generalizing, but only talking about those servicemen who chose to ignore the very clear orders of Allah and his prophets and consume Haram Alcohol while at the same time want their countrymen to remember them as ‘Mujahids’.

 

[Kasrkin]

You are very much generalizing and assuming too much here, notwithstanding your use of the word 'those'. It is highly doubtful if those who do indulge such acts consider or claim to be good Muslims, what is more questionable is your credibility to judge if they do, and if they're wrong to. Stick to verifiable and concrete discussion instead of punching at air. No one in the Pakistan Army is making anyone a 'fool' but you certainly are with your petty and inconsequential slights and vague takes at morality. The 'drinking problem' in our military, if it is enough to be called a 'problem', is the least of our worries today. No point looking for reasons to look down on or brand people, especially when there is no substantiation, when more consequential matters are at stake. Pakistan Army as an institution is misrepresented by such views.

 

[qsaark]

You are very much generalizing and assuming too much here, notwithstanding your use of the word 'those'. It is highly doubtful if those who do indulge such acts consider or claim to be good Muslims, what is more questionable is your credibility to judge if they do, and if they're wrong to. Stick to verifiable and concrete discussion instead of punching at air. No one in the Pakistan Army is making anyone a 'fool' but you certainly are with your petty and inconsequential slights and vague takes at morality. The 'drinking problem' in our military, if it is enough to be called a 'problem', is the least of our worries today. No point looking for reasons to look down on or brand people, especially when there is no substantiation, when more consequential matters are at stake. Pakistan Army as an institution is misrepresented by such views.

OK, so you want to ban me for that? You are putting blames on me for things I never said. It is not me, it is you who is actually assuming too much. Why you allow such threads to continue anyway of you cant take the criticism?

 

[Kasrkin]

OK, so you want to ban me for that? Why you allow such threads to continue anyway of you cant take the criticism?

Don't tempt me. And no, I'm not the one who can't take criticism here. Dramatizing your plight won't impress anyone either.

 

[Kasrkin]

I must say Mr. Qsaark, if you're trying to get banned you're doing a hell of a good job. I suggest you take sometime to cool off and get back to posting tomorrow, lest you say something you'll regret (again).

 

[qsaark]

I must say Mr. Qsaark, if you're trying to get banned you're doing a hell of a good job. I suggest you take sometime to cool off and get back to posting tomorrow, lest you say something you'll regret (again).

Do whatever you want to Mr. Kasrkin. I was banned onces, if I get banned one more time, it wont hurt me. But blaming me for things I never said is not acceptable.

---------- Post added at 11:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 PM ----------

Oh a true Muslim is doing geebat....

i am famous then i thought

You were very much here Mt. I knew it. So sorry, your gheebat thingy wont fly here.

 

[Interceptor]

Are there only militarymen in Pakistan who drink? If the answer is no, then one must be ashamed of accusing someone unnecessarily!

Ayub was a notorious drinker and so was Yahya, its not a fixation on the army but bad omen they left. The east Pakistan fiasco drinking and rape then siachin and Zia saying that Pakistan doesn't want this land it is of no use. These drunkards are iconic to this debate.

 

[Kasrkin]

I was banned onces, if I get banned one more time, it wont hurt me.

Actually, the fact that you're back here is proof enough that your expulsion was the cause of alteast some distress to you. As I recall, we did not take you back without approach-ment from your side.

But blaming me for things I never said is not acceptable.

Really? And what exactly did I 'unfairly' blame you for? That you were generalizing? Yes you were indeed, your choice of the word 'those' was not much of a qualification. 'Those' could very well mean almost all of the service-men, in fact your words following that regarding the Pakistani people being supposedly made 'fools' implies exactly such. So yes indeed I've questioned the relevance, accuracy and purpose of your words, and will continue to do so if I feel the need.

It would be advisable if you try to swallow your excessive pride now and again, because unlike your previous indulgence here and elsewhere, you won't be given 9 lives. We appreciate and encourage differing opinion holders, but we also expect them to be spirited and responsible, not insecure and pitiful.

 

[sonicboom]

Allah and his prophet prohibited the Muslims to consume Alcohol period. This has nothing to do with Mullah or what not; these are orders of Allah and his prophets. Those servicemen who happen to be Muslims yet want to consume alcohol are more than welcome to consume Alcohol. However, they are requested not to call themselves ‘Mujahid’ and not make rest of the nation fool in the names of ‘Jihad’ and ‘Mujahid’.

qsaark:
Excellent observation.
Let me add to what you said above:

To human, Allah gave the purest and best nature, and human's duty is to preserve the pattern on which Allah has made him.

Almighty Allah has exalted the Human even higher than the Angels, but if he uses his will and discretion is wrong then he will be abased to the lowest possible position.

The Holy Quraan clearly states the lawful and unlawful actions. All Muslaims must follow this Law of Allah which is known as the `Shariah' or Islamic Law.

Amongst the clear-cut prohibitions is the use of Alcohol in any form whatsoever.

Regarding Alcohol - The Holy Quraan states: "They ask Thee concerning Wine and Gambling, Say: In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." (Surah Al-Baqarah:219)

The Quraan further states in Surah Al-Maaidah verse 90: "O Ye who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, Sacrificing to Stones, and (divination by) Arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork; Keep away from such, that Ye may prosper."

Quraanic evidence has been presented to you regarding the use of Alcohol. We must abstain fully from all forms and uses of alcohol.

The selling of Alcohol is also forbidden. It is completely Haraam for Muslims to be trading in this trade.

May Allah give us the right understanding. Ameen.


Note: qsaark, no need to argue with anyone. Just ignore them. You have done your part. They are responsible for their actions. No wonder why Allak ka hazab on Pakistan is going on.

 

[Kasrkin]

Ayub was a notorious drinker and so was Yahya, its not a fixation on the army but bad omen they left. The east Pakistan fiasco drinking and rape then siachin and Zia saying that Pakistan doesn't want this land it is of no use. These drunkards are iconic to this debate.

Yahya was indeed known for his drinking. That was also the source of much restlessness and outrage in many officers and heavily contributed to his dismissal. Ayub though was not known for any such thing, in fact he became quite religious towards the end of his term and its very hard to question his contributions to the country and especially to the army.

The East Pakistan 'fiasco' was indeed a sad affair however alcohol consumption was not the primary or decisive factor, even according to the most critical of reports. And even then the situation this regard has been fixed since long and it has not been as nearly as common or widespread for sometime.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would accuse Zia of drinking. The course of the Siachen war having anything to do with drinking of our servicemen is also a crude and preposterous allegation. What is iconic in most of these discussions is the stereotypical views and contempt many hold our most important institution in without any justification.

 

[qsaark]

Actually, the fact that you're back here is proof enough that your expulsion was the cause of alteast some distress to you. As I recall, we did not take you back without approach-ment from your side

Regarding 'you took me back', you better talk to webby who actually owns this forum. For your information, I was autometically unbanned within 2 week of my ban, which by the way had nothing to do with my 'anti-whatever' approach. I was banned because 'Xeric' was approaching me through the PMs to put pressure on the management to restore DS/Neo to their previously held positions. I can post all those conversations if you need to see them. I had no idea that you being a member of the management team would be so ill-informed about what happened,why I was banned, and when the ban was automatically lifted.

Really? And what exactly did I 'unfairly' blame you for? That you were generalizing? Yes you were indeed, your choice of the word 'those' was not much of a qualification. 'Those' could very well mean almost all of the service-men, in fact your words following that regarding the Pakistani people being supposedly made 'fools' implies exactly such. So yes indeed I've questioned the relevance, accuracy and purpose of your words, and will continue to do so if I feel the need.

It would be advisable if you try to swallow your excessive pride now and again, because unlike your previous indulgence here and elsewhere, you won't be given 9 lives. We appreciate and encourage differing opinion holders, but we also expect them to be spirited and responsible, not insecure and pitiful.

I will leave it on the members. They are better judge. They can surely see what I said and what I did not. Besides, I am curious to know why you did not question the relevance, accuracy and purpose of the words of several other posters in past 4 or so pages in this thread? Why you decided to put my words on the chopping board? I hope this has nothing to do with your friendship with Xeric.

 

[sonicboom]

The East Pakistan 'fiasco' was indeed a sad affair however alcohol consumption was not the primary or decisive factor, even according to the most critical of reports. And even then the situation this regard has been fixed since long and it has not been as nearly as common or widespread for sometime.

Just for your kind information and for others:

“According to the Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission report, the main reason for the army surrendering in East Pakistan was because army officers were involved in smuggling, alcohol and sex. It is under the report’s recommendation that the army was given the motto of ‘Iman’ (faith), ‘Taqwa’ (self-purification) and Jihad (holy war) and moral centres were established.”

It's shame that the ‘liquor culture’ had again started in the Pakistan Army, which was stopped during the Zia regime on the Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission report’s recommendations

 

[SecularHumanist]

Well dude what’s so funny!!
I mean it is rather disgusting,
Do you think to keep you hands of alcohol there is need of government ban, price hikes or anything. Can no one think of it as banned by our religion!!
It is shameful if any one, whether a military man or a civilian is consuming it add call themselves Muslims!
God help our country!

The problem is that the government is taking away the freedom of choice. Besides, enough of the hypocrisy in this country. Not everyone is so religious in this country.

The problem is looking at everything in this country through an Islamic filter. In many cases this leads to the lack of rationality and ridiculous laws. For example, take that law we had for providing 4 witnesses for rape. Ridiculous! But all you had to say was that it is Allah's law and we cannot question it. The islamists/jamaatis will always have the advantage in this country and that is what will prevent this country from realizing its true potential.

 

[muse]

More inability to differentiate voluntarily accepted personal religious duties and obligations from civic rights and responsibilities.