Iranian-Russian couple visits India. Never felt so Muslim in my life before

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

Neolithic iranian were dark as fckk. Coppery can have dark shades to it. A pure brauhian would look closer to vedoid person from ceylon.
View attachment 872696

The Ganj Dareh farmers didn't look like that and they formed the bulk of the populace in the Bronze Age.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

The Ganj Dareh farmers didn't look like that and they formed the bulk of the populace in the Bronze Age.

Depends on the timeline.. we are talking about Neolithic times not chalcolithic after it .. or Bronze that was even later.

 

[ThunderCat]

No it's called Pakistan lol unless you want me begin to call you deluded Indians, because that's what you are.

Yes we are Indians since we're the people of the Indus. The deluded part might be more fitting for you since you named your country after our riverbed in a failed bid to associate yourselves with it and with us.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

Yes we are Indians since we're the people of the Indus. The deluded part might be more fitting for you since you named your country after our riverbed in a failed bid to associate yourselves with it and with us.

Yes you are Indian, and always will be and because your nation was one before it was cut up for you due to your own deficiencies.

What are you talking about?! Iran means Aryan in Middle Persian, not some riverbed LOL. Don't take hard drugs before commenting people...

What?! I NEVER said I was Zoroastrian - rather I said I'd have killed myself if I was one.

It wasn't illegal to speak Persian. What happened was that after the revolt of 1857, they delisted it as an administrative and changed it overnight to Urdu. My ancestors had positions in the government and had to adapt to the language in record time in order to keep their jobs and riches. As a result, Persian fell into disuse at home and over time, Urdu replaced it.

There is a third category not many know of. There are Iranian Seyyeds who settled here and went through the same linguistic transformation I described. That is the group I belong to.

Other than us, there are mostly khaneh badosh (Shia) who still speak the old tongue and mostly live in Pune.


Sure, never denied it. But the dark is as dark as Bandari Iranians get which is somewhere between a reddish-light brown tinge.

The Iranic tribes demographically displaced these people, yes but didn't radically transform their gene pool into something different.

I dont know how to tell you this...the Afsharids never settled in India when they ransacked the place and most of Naders army were from Central Asia. They left with the booty and never returned. This is a myth that you're spreading here! If you are a Shia that's because Shia exists in the subcontinent, that's all. Also a language isn't created and implemented over night and I dont see how this stops someone speaking it at home.

 

[BlessedKingOfLonging]

I dont know how to tell you this...the Afsharids never settled in India when they ransacked the place and most of Naders army were from Central Asia. They left with the booty and never returned. This is a myth that you're spreading here! If you are a Shia that's because Shia exists in the subcontinent, that's all. Also a language isn't created and implemented over night and I dont see how this stops someone speaking it at home.

I'm aware Nader withdrew with his forces. At that time, India was quite rich and after the sack of Delhi, central authority collapsed plus a lot of fertile land of the northern plains was up for grabs. That and there was already a sizeable Persian community in the region by 1700s and my ancestors set down roots there (the original family manor still exists, dating back to this period).

That's exactly what happened, though. The British wanted the Persianate influence gone and they elevated a lot of Urdu-speaking Muslim loyalists to the government once the rebellion was suppressed. Basically, if you didn't speak it, you had to become fluent in record time to keep your administrative post. Besides, back in those days, sons were groomed to take office from the father and this required them having a command from the get-go, which only comes if you converse frequently even in private life. Inside of two decades, the linguistic tradition was lost.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Yes we are Indians since we're the people of the Indus. The deluded part might be more fitting for you since you named your country after our riverbed in a failed bid to associate yourselves with it and with us.

Pakistanis are NOT indians. Over 98% of modern day indians have NO genetic, racial or physical links to modern day Pakistanis.........

 

[drmeson]

the socalled Neolithic "iranian" were extemely dark skinned the closest would resemble today's pure brauhwi people.

Very wrong. The Kalash, Brusho populations are Iran_N heavy. Do they seem dark skinned to you?

Below is the autosomal proportions of them. The Light green part is Iran_N.

The Iran_N's current closest form are pure Baloch people. The ones that gave birth to your kind match 100% with Shahre Sokhte from Balochistan. Modern day Pure Baloch people with less Indic input are not darker than an average middle eastern. More you shift towards south the Indic ASI gene content increases to the point that pur Indic types start showing up with small heads.

There was absolutely nothing aryan

Where did I say Iran_N is Aryan ? Provide Evidence I said that.

Aryan were tribes that came into Iranic plateau and Indic subcontinent from Sintashta. They spoke same language that got split into Sanskerat language of the Noble Aryan Rulers of NW India and the tribes that landed in Iranic plateaue spoke Avestan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians

about them and their original movement came way back from Africa..

through mespotamaia and then sindh(indus).

Provide Evidence that Iranian neolithic farmers came from Africa? Should be a SJR registered article like how I provided with DOI.

Molecular genetics reality
Iranian Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N recognized in the genetics world) were a mixture of Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (Sample: Ganj Dareh) + Anatolian Farmers (ANF) from NW of Iran and Anatolia. Although they both came from the same prehistoric lineage but they mixed up again. The proportions may vary based upon locations e.g. some samples show 70-80 % Anatolian lineage in NW of Iran (Sample: Haji Peroze), Azerbaijan, and Anatolia while those in Sistan and Balochistan were 70-80% Iran_N Heavy (Sample: Teppe Hisar). This same Iran_N later moved/invaded south Asia and mixed with Austrailoid content in India to create IVC like I provided Autosomal plots in my previous post.

This is not my opinion this is based upon the works of SJR registered, high impact factor, published research articles from the world’s leading universities top-notch bio geneticists, and anthropologists of the western world who recognize this Iranian Neolithic farmer Iran_N migrations and their resultant civilizations like Elam (Iran) and IVC (North India).
REFERENCE 1 "The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0095714

If you are thinking Iran_N as Levant_N (Sample: Natufian) then you can not be more wrong. Levant_N/Natufians have nothing to do with Iran_N. Read below:

1) REFERENCE:"Re-analysis of Whole Genome Sequence Data From 279 Ancient Eurasians Reveals Substantial Ancestral Heterogeneity"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffgene.2018.00268​

Direct quotes from paper

Levant_N which contributed to 50 % Arabian genome was not related to Iran_N. "The first farmers of the southern Levant (Israel and Jordan) and Zagros Mountains (Iran) were strongly genetically differentiated" https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aaf7943

• "In the ancient Iranians, the proportion of Western Asian ancestry doubled through the Iron Age, suggesting gene flow into Iran from the Caucasus rather than the Levant"

This shows that Iran Iron age gene is iranian hunter gatherer and Caucasus hunter gatherer based not Levant based.

The term 'Neolithic iranian' is an 18th century british anthropology denotion only with respect to geography of that time and nothing more.considering .. back then regions were identified based on the English equivalents of regional names and not aboriginal names...

English 18th century history means nothing to molecular genetics which counts a genetically isolated group as a separate entity if it shows certain distance from their neighbors on PCA plots and Iran_N shows that all. These people had their own language, pastoralist societies like Zagros, IVC, Southern Caucasus. What British colonialists thought means nothing to modern science.

The dna of locals of present day iran pakistan living in that time greatly changed AFTER the Aryan migration from north

Again you are wrong. The "locals of present day pakistan", remove the Iranic groups you are somehow blessed with, like rest of the indos are "Heavy" Iran_N to this day. Look at this plot below. Even the North Indic groups like Sindh, Punjabs are 30-60 % Iran_N compared to 50-90 % Iran_N of IVC original which means they received minimal input but were ruled by the invader who changed their language, way of life, belief system etc. They just underwent a linguistic and cultural shift.

...................


Look at the lighter green part in your genes, the Iran_N all over mixed with darker green Ancestral south Indian (ASIA). Compare that to Western Asian nations or Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Abkhazia, and Georgia who all have the same proportions of it as well.

through and it was a steady migration not invasion unless you too dumb to make things up..

So the invading group destroyed the local genes, gods, language, culture and created kingdoms in what is now NW Indic lands but that is steady migration right? Scholar disagree with you and I have a thing for trusting them.

because then that means you were urself invaded from north... and that all persian kings were actually invaders from north.

Me personally? no My kind came settled in Iran in 1500s from Eastern Anatolia. My family's name is Ghereghloo, you won't know what it is but we were bad people who did some .... physical stuff to North Indians, Russians, Turkish, Arabs ... fun story. Even right now the chief of Iranian Armed Forces is one of us.

And again, You are wrong. The Tribes that came to Iran from Sintashta mixed with locals that were Iran_N+ANF already and. This mixing led to the modern-day Iranian identity which has not changed a bit in last 2800 years (I posted a comparative PCA in the previous post between modern Iran and Iron age iran). From this newly found identity came the grand empires. The Medes kingdoms, the Persians, The Sychtian Parthians, The Khorasanis, Afghans, and later Turko Iranics are all made of this proportion to this day. Turkics of Iran like myself have some 15-20% Peripheral Turkic influence, rest is all local so peel that off and we are Medes. Same goes for Turkish too, they are also not some Altaic Turkics. They are Indo European Mittani/Hittie descendants who went through language and culture shift and started calling themselves Turks (See their extreme genetic proximity to Iran). Which is why to this day Iran and Turkey are like ditto countries genetically along with Azerbaijan Republic, Armenia etc. I feel idiotic when we fight with eachother.

Btw only dumb fools on the internet think that only Persian tribes ruled Iran among the Iranics. The first Empire that was formed in Iranic plateau was by Medes IE who are ancestors of Kurds, Azeris, Tats, Talysh. The Achaemenids were Persians but had heavy Medes input (Persian+Kurd). Parthians were North Eastern Iranic Sychtian remnants that descended into Khorasani cline in Iranic plateau. Sassanids were pure Persians, later post Islamic Dynasties and Empires came from all of these groups with Turkics

..north means northern Russia the original place of 'aryan '. a name ur king ardeshir mumbo jumboed into 'Iran' or 'Iran shehar' only in the sassanid times..so the origin was way beyond in north not BMAC(which was only a checkpoint)..

.... as for indus valley aryans migrated here not Iranians..

Aryan tribes did not take a flight on Ryan Air plane to land in Delhi/Islamabad directly from Ukraine to create your kind by mixing with Indus farmer women in a matter of a day. The movement of large population groups/tribes in ancient times was very slow. Like few km/year so what you got in name of "Aryans" was already living for centuries in the North Eastern Iranic plateau (modern-day Afghanistan, an Iranic nation). The Aryans you received were Iranicised which is why even the purest form of remnants of them (marked by R1a Z93 haplo) today show Iranic genes like Iran_N/CHG to this day. Your idea of "oh they originated in Russia" so indo-paks are Russians has no literary basis.

The Yaghnoobi Tajiks are the closest most genetic form of the Indo-Aryans who entered India with almost ~50 % of them carrying the Elite R1a Z93 Indo Aryan haplo that is prevalent in South Asian upper castes (selective breeding groups like Brahmans etc) now. One can say that Tajiks/West Afghans invaded the South Asia as Indo Europeans from Bactaria which is modern day Afghan/Tajik region. And guess how much Iran_N/CHG they have? ... Around 40+ % ! which tells us that you did not receive some Russian Vladimir straight from Odessa on a flight. You received Afghan/Tajik warlords who were living in the Iranic plateau for a long enough time that when they invaded you they were already Iran_N/CHG heavy which shows in their own autosomal DNA today.

Going by your logic the early persian kingdoms were that of outsiders not locals

Empires of Iran came much later after the invasion/migrations of IE into Iran. The Early migrations resulted in settlements of Medes, Kurds, Persians etc who mixed with locals to generate the modern Iranian identity. The iranic identity was already genetically stabilized by that time. Historians put the first records of "Medes" and "Persians" in Iran some ~3000 years ago living on the periphery of Assyrian empires but the first Persian empire came centuries later when they were localized already.

Persian identity or Medes Identity came to Iran from From Yamnaya some 3000 years ago and created empires but that does not mean there were no people in Iran at that time. A significant portion of Iranian genetics to this day come from Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (~20000 years old samples have been found) and their later descendants Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N). These are not just ancestors of Iranian but entire Central Asia, the Northern part of South Asia, and Anatolia as well. Let alone that, Iran_N is found among some Europeans.

and that too happened towards the late harrapan period when the civilization was on decline..

Indus valley was not a martial empire. It was an Iranian famers (87% Iran_N) agri-society that could not defend itself and never in its entire history has ever created an empire so there was no "peak" or "decline".

u think u can claim indus like that.

You think you can change molecular genetic published reality by trash talking? sorry buddy science does not work like that. Why would I need to claim something that my Iranian farmers started ?? and my Iranicised Aryans from BMAC destroyed? I understand that you dont want to believe in the actual science of molecular genetics but you can't change it. Science is brutal in how it smashes myths. IVC was 87 % Iran_N is a molecular published fact. I provided DOI of western unis publishing work on it. You should trace every molecular geneticist who published this gene sequence and tell them they are all wrong, the western Universities they work in are wrong, their journals, high-impact papers, and research institutions with budgets higher than some country's foreign reserves are wrong ... everything is wrong and ultra nationalistic Indic myths are correct but this won't change the reality of molecular genetic sequence preserved in skeletons of past.

and last but not least, I have a history like the below-posted maps. I dont need some tiny nonmartial swamp of 87 % Iran_N farmers polluted by 13 % Indic aboriginal genes to boost my ego. My ego is boosted by below already. Three empires not too long ago. Iran-Turkic genes (see autosomal same plots of Turkish, Iranian, and Uzbek nations), Irano Turkic languages ... ruling over more than half the Asian population.

What?! I NEVER said I was Zoroastrian - rather I said I'd have killed myself if I was one.

It wasn't illegal to speak Persian. What happened was that after the revolt of 1857, they delisted it as an administrative and changed it overnight to Urdu. My ancestors had positions in the government and had to adapt to the language in record time in order to keep their jobs and riches. As a result, Persian fell into disuse at home and over time, Urdu replaced it.

There is a third category not many know of. There are Iranian Seyyeds who settled here and went through the same linguistic transformation I described. That is the group I belong to.

Other than us, there are mostly khaneh badosh (Shia) who still speak the old tongue and mostly live in Pune.


Sure, never denied it. But the dark is as dark as Bandari Iranians get which is somewhere between a reddish-light brown tinge.

The Iranic tribes demographically displaced these people, yes but didn't radically transform their gene pool into something different.

Is your family origin Turkoman or Persian/Khorasani? Naderi troops that ransacked Indo-Pak were mostly Turkoman and Khorasanis (cavalry).

Does the surname end with "lu" ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

Apply it at home and it will save you from all kind of radiation including nuclear... keeping insects away..

what, do you really believe that

 

[ThunderCat]

Pakistanis are NOT indians. Over 98% of modern day indians have NO genetic, racial or physical links to modern day Pakistanis.........

You are confusing Indian (Indus people) with "Indian" (modern artificial country). Pakistanis are the former. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_(Herodotus)

Yes you are Indian, and always will be and because your nation was one before it was cut up for you due to your own deficiencies.

What are you talking about?! Iran means Aryan in Middle Persian, not some riverbed LOL. Don't take hard drugs before commenting people...

India is a Roman name for a river bed in Pakistan. I dont know how you got it confused with the term Iran.

No it's called Pakistan lol unless you want me begin to call you deluded Indians, because that's what you are.

Even seen a map of Pakistan? Sindh is one of it's provinces.

 

[ThunderCat]

Mai hendostan me rahta hoon aur jab mai bahar bhi thaa, 4 saal aise mulk me thaa jahan pakistaniyon ki bhar maar thi. Bahut dekhe hai main punjabi; tumse paak kutte hote hain.

No you don't. Hindustan means land of the river Indus, which is in Pakistan. You definitely don't live in Hindustan.

India and the Aryans can claim that. Not you. Modern day Iranians actually have Elamite blood, which can be traced with a process of elimination. Sadly not a soul wants to mix their blood with your kind. Literally of no value to anyone. But I take the Arab part of our history with pride. Your country, on the other hand, is a bastard child of the Brits and India and in perpetual war and corruption. Ahmadinejad made that claim, but at least we know how to deal with them...you tend to get on your knees, on the other hand.

I can do this forever!

Considering you named your country after our territory "land of the Indus" i would have to question who the bastard child here is lol

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You are confusing Indian (Indus people) with "Indian" (modern artificial country). Pakistanis are the former. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India_(Herodotus)



India is a Roman name for a river bed in Pakistan. I dont know how you got it confused with the term Iran.

View attachment 872968



Even seen a map of Pakistan? Sindh is one of it's provinces.

Agreed but to clarify, over 98% of modern day indians have no genetic, dna, racial or physical connections to modern day Pakistanis.

 

[Progressive1]

Very wrong. The Kalash, Brusho populations are Iran_N heavy. Do they seem dark skinned to you?

Below is the autosomal proportions of them. The Light green part is Iran_N.

View attachment 872707

The Iran_N's current closest form are pure Baloch people. The ones that gave birth to your kind match 100% with Shahre Sokhte from Balochistan. Modern day Pure Baloch people with less Indic input are not darker than an average middle eastern. More you shift towards south the Indic ASI gene content increases to the point that pur Indic types start showing up with small heads.



Where did I say Iran_N is Aryan ? Provide Evidence I said that.

Aryan were tribes that came into Iranic plateau and Indic subcontinent from Sintashta. They spoke same language that got split into Sanskerat language of the Noble Aryan Rulers of NW India and the tribes that landed in Iranic plateaue spoke Avestan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians





Provide Evidence that Iranian neolithic farmers came from Africa? Should be a SJR registered article like how I provided with DOI.

Molecular genetics reality
Iranian Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N recognized in the genetics world) were a mixture of Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (Sample: Ganj Dareh) + Anatolian Farmers (ANF) from NW of Iran and Anatolia. Although they both came from the same prehistoric lineage but they mixed up again. The proportions may vary based upon locations e.g. some samples show 70-80 % Anatolian lineage in NW of Iran (Sample: Haji Peroze), Azerbaijan, and Anatolia while those in Sistan and Balochistan were 70-80% Iran_N Heavy (Sample: Teppe Hisar). This same Iran_N later moved/invaded south Asia and mixed with Austrailoid content in India to create IVC like I provided Autosomal plots in my previous post.

This is not my opinion this is based upon the works of SJR registered, high impact factor, published research articles from the world’s leading universities top-notch bio geneticists, and anthropologists of the western world who recognize this Iranian Neolithic farmer Iran_N migrations and their resultant civilizations like Elam (Iran) and IVC (North India).
REFERENCE 1 "The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0095714

View attachment 872720


If you are thinking Iran_N as Levant_N (Sample: Natufian) then you can not be more wrong. Levant_N/Natufians have nothing to do with Iran_N. Read below:

1) REFERENCE:"Re-analysis of Whole Genome Sequence Data From 279 Ancient Eurasians Reveals Substantial Ancestral Heterogeneity"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffgene.2018.00268​

Direct quotes from paper

Levant_N which contributed to 50 % Arabian genome was not related to Iran_N. "The first farmers of the southern Levant (Israel and Jordan) and Zagros Mountains (Iran) were strongly genetically differentiated" https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aaf7943

• "In the ancient Iranians, the proportion of Western Asian ancestry doubled through the Iron Age, suggesting gene flow into Iran from the Caucasus rather than the Levant"

This shows that Iran Iron age gene is iranian hunter gatherer and Caucasus hunter gatherer based not Levant based.



English 18th century history means nothing to molecular genetics which counts a genetically isolated group as a separate entity if it shows certain distance from their neighbors on PCA plots and Iran_N shows that all. These people had their own language, pastoralist societies like Zagros, IVC, Southern Caucasus. What British colonialists thought means nothing to modern science.



Again you are wrong. The "locals of present day pakistan", remove the Iranic groups you are somehow blessed with, like rest of the indos are "Heavy" Iran_N to this day. Look at this plot below. Even the North Indic groups like Sindh, Punjabs are 30-60 % Iran_N compared to 50-90 % Iran_N of IVC original which means they received minimal input but were ruled by the invader who changed their language, way of life, belief system etc. They just underwent a linguistic and cultural shift.

View attachment 872709

...................


Look at the lighter green part in your genes, the Iran_N all over mixed with darker green Ancestral south Indian (ASIA). Compare that to Western Asian nations or Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Abkhazia, and Georgia who all have the same proportions of it as well.

View attachment 872710



So the invading group destroyed the local genes, gods, language, culture and created kingdoms in what is now NW Indic lands but that is steady migration right? Scholar disagree with you and I have a thing for trusting them.



Me personally? no My kind came settled in Iran in 1500s from Eastern Anatolia. My family's name is Ghereghloo, you won't know what it is but we were bad people who did some .... physical stuff to North Indians, Russians, Turkish, Arabs ... fun story. Even right now the chief of Iranian Armed Forces is one of us.

And again, You are wrong. The Tribes that came to Iran from Sintashta mixed with locals that were Iran_N+ANF already and. This mixing led to the modern-day Iranian identity which has not changed a bit in last 2800 years (I posted a comparative PCA in the previous post between modern Iran and Iron age iran). From this newly found identity came the grand empires. The Medes kingdoms, the Persians, The Sychtian Parthians, The Khorasanis, Afghans, and later Turko Iranics are all made of this proportion to this day. Turkics of Iran like myself have some 15-20% Peripheral Turkic influence, rest is all local so peel that off and we are Medes. Same goes for Turkish too, they are also not some Altaic Turkics. They are Indo European Mittani/Hittie descendants who went through language and culture shift and started calling themselves Turks (See their extreme genetic proximity to Iran). Which is why to this day Iran and Turkey are like ditto countries genetically along with Azerbaijan Republic, Armenia etc. I feel idiotic when we fight with eachother.

Btw only dumb fools on the internet think that only Persian tribes ruled Iran among the Iranics. The first Empire that was formed in Iranic plateau was by Medes IE who are ancestors of Kurds, Azeris, Tats, Talysh. The Achaemenids were Persians but had heavy Medes input (Persian+Kurd). Parthians were North Eastern Iranic Sychtian remnants that descended into Khorasani cline in Iranic plateau. Sassanids were pure Persians, later post Islamic Dynasties and Empires came from all of these groups with Turkics





Aryan tribes did not take a flight on Ryan Air plane to land in Delhi/Islamabad directly from Ukraine to create your kind by mixing with Indus farmer women in a matter of a day. The movement of large population groups/tribes in ancient times was very slow. Like few km/year so what you got in name of "Aryans" was already living for centuries in the North Eastern Iranic plateau (modern-day Afghanistan, an Iranic nation). The Aryans you received were Iranicised which is why even the purest form of remnants of them (marked by R1a Z93 haplo) today show Iranic genes like Iran_N/CHG to this day. Your idea of "oh they originated in Russia" so indo-paks are Russians has no literary basis.

The Yaghnoobi Tajiks are the closest most genetic form of the Indo-Aryans who entered India with almost ~50 % of them carrying the Elite R1a Z93 Indo Aryan haplo that is prevalent in South Asian upper castes (selective breeding groups like Brahmans etc) now. One can say that Tajiks/West Afghans invaded the South Asia as Indo Europeans from Bactaria which is modern day Afghan/Tajik region. And guess how much Iran_N/CHG they have? ... Around 40+ % ! which tells us that you did not receive some Russian Vladimir straight from Odessa on a flight. You received Afghan/Tajik warlords who were living in the Iranic plateau for a long enough time that when they invaded you they were already Iran_N/CHG heavy which shows in their own autosomal DNA today.

View attachment 872719



Empires of Iran came much later after the invasion/migrations of IE into Iran. The Early migrations resulted in settlements of Medes, Kurds, Persians etc who mixed with locals to generate the modern Iranian identity. The iranic identity was already genetically stabilized by that time. Historians put the first records of "Medes" and "Persians" in Iran some ~3000 years ago living on the periphery of Assyrian empires but the first Persian empire came centuries later when they were localized already.

Persian identity or Medes Identity came to Iran from From Yamnaya some 3000 years ago and created empires but that does not mean there were no people in Iran at that time. A significant portion of Iranian genetics to this day come from Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (~20000 years old samples have been found) and their later descendants Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N). These are not just ancestors of Iranian but entire Central Asia, the Northern part of South Asia, and Anatolia as well. Let alone that, Iran_N is found among some Europeans.





Indus valley was not a martial empire. It was an Iranian famers (87% Iran_N) agri-society that could not defend itself and never in its entire history has ever created an empire so there was no "peak" or "decline".





You think you can change molecular genetic published reality by trash talking? sorry buddy science does not work like that. Why would I need to claim something that my Iranian farmers started ?? and my Iranicised Aryans from BMAC destroyed? I understand that you dont want to believe in the actual science of molecular genetics but you can't change it. Science is brutal in how it smashes myths. IVC was 87 % Iran_N is a molecular published fact. I provided DOI of western unis publishing work on it. You should trace every molecular geneticist who published this gene sequence and tell them they are all wrong, the western Universities they work in are wrong, their journals, high-impact papers, and research institutions with budgets higher than some country's foreign reserves are wrong ... everything is wrong and ultra nationalistic Indic myths are correct but this won't change the reality of molecular genetic sequence preserved in skeletons of past.

and last but not least, I have a history like the below-posted maps. I dont need some tiny nonmartial swamp of 87 % Iran_N farmers polluted by 13 % Indic aboriginal genes to boost my ego. My ego is boosted by below already. Three empires not too long ago. Iran-Turkic genes (see autosomal same plots of Turkish, Iranian, and Uzbek nations), Irano Turkic languages ... ruling over more than half the Asian population.

View attachment 872960




Is your family origin Turkoman or Persian/Khorasani? Naderi troops that ransacked Indo-Pak were mostly Turkoman and Khorasanis (cavalry).

Does the surname end with "lu" ?

sindhis have one of highest iran N component in the world

Very wrong. The Kalash, Brusho populations are Iran_N heavy. Do they seem dark skinned to you?

Below is the autosomal proportions of them. The Light green part is Iran_N.

View attachment 872707

The Iran_N's current closest form are pure Baloch people. The ones that gave birth to your kind match 100% with Shahre Sokhte from Balochistan. Modern day Pure Baloch people with less Indic input are not darker than an average middle eastern. More you shift towards south the Indic ASI gene content increases to the point that pur Indic types start showing up with small heads.



Where did I say Iran_N is Aryan ? Provide Evidence I said that.

Aryan were tribes that came into Iranic plateau and Indic subcontinent from Sintashta. They spoke same language that got split into Sanskerat language of the Noble Aryan Rulers of NW India and the tribes that landed in Iranic plateaue spoke Avestan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Iranians





Provide Evidence that Iranian neolithic farmers came from Africa? Should be a SJR registered article like how I provided with DOI.

Molecular genetics reality
Iranian Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N recognized in the genetics world) were a mixture of Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (Sample: Ganj Dareh) + Anatolian Farmers (ANF) from NW of Iran and Anatolia. Although they both came from the same prehistoric lineage but they mixed up again. The proportions may vary based upon locations e.g. some samples show 70-80 % Anatolian lineage in NW of Iran (Sample: Haji Peroze), Azerbaijan, and Anatolia while those in Sistan and Balochistan were 70-80% Iran_N Heavy (Sample: Teppe Hisar). This same Iran_N later moved/invaded south Asia and mixed with Austrailoid content in India to create IVC like I provided Autosomal plots in my previous post.

This is not my opinion this is based upon the works of SJR registered, high impact factor, published research articles from the world’s leading universities top-notch bio geneticists, and anthropologists of the western world who recognize this Iranian Neolithic farmer Iran_N migrations and their resultant civilizations like Elam (Iran) and IVC (North India).
REFERENCE 1 "The Near-Eastern Roots of the Neolithic in South Asia"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0095714

View attachment 872720


If you are thinking Iran_N as Levant_N (Sample: Natufian) then you can not be more wrong. Levant_N/Natufians have nothing to do with Iran_N. Read below:

1) REFERENCE:"Re-analysis of Whole Genome Sequence Data From 279 Ancient Eurasians Reveals Substantial Ancestral Heterogeneity"
DOI: https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffgene.2018.00268​

Direct quotes from paper

Levant_N which contributed to 50 % Arabian genome was not related to Iran_N. "The first farmers of the southern Levant (Israel and Jordan) and Zagros Mountains (Iran) were strongly genetically differentiated" https://doi.org/10.1126/science.aaf7943

• "In the ancient Iranians, the proportion of Western Asian ancestry doubled through the Iron Age, suggesting gene flow into Iran from the Caucasus rather than the Levant"

This shows that Iran Iron age gene is iranian hunter gatherer and Caucasus hunter gatherer based not Levant based.



English 18th century history means nothing to molecular genetics which counts a genetically isolated group as a separate entity if it shows certain distance from their neighbors on PCA plots and Iran_N shows that all. These people had their own language, pastoralist societies like Zagros, IVC, Southern Caucasus. What British colonialists thought means nothing to modern science.



Again you are wrong. The "locals of present day pakistan", remove the Iranic groups you are somehow blessed with, like rest of the indos are "Heavy" Iran_N to this day. Look at this plot below. Even the North Indic groups like Sindh, Punjabs are 30-60 % Iran_N compared to 50-90 % Iran_N of IVC original which means they received minimal input but were ruled by the invader who changed their language, way of life, belief system etc. They just underwent a linguistic and cultural shift.

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Look at the lighter green part in your genes, the Iran_N all over mixed with darker green Ancestral south Indian (ASIA). Compare that to Western Asian nations or Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Abkhazia, and Georgia who all have the same proportions of it as well.

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So the invading group destroyed the local genes, gods, language, culture and created kingdoms in what is now NW Indic lands but that is steady migration right? Scholar disagree with you and I have a thing for trusting them.



Me personally? no My kind came settled in Iran in 1500s from Eastern Anatolia. My family's name is Ghereghloo, you won't know what it is but we were bad people who did some .... physical stuff to North Indians, Russians, Turkish, Arabs ... fun story. Even right now the chief of Iranian Armed Forces is one of us.

And again, You are wrong. The Tribes that came to Iran from Sintashta mixed with locals that were Iran_N+ANF already and. This mixing led to the modern-day Iranian identity which has not changed a bit in last 2800 years (I posted a comparative PCA in the previous post between modern Iran and Iron age iran). From this newly found identity came the grand empires. The Medes kingdoms, the Persians, The Sychtian Parthians, The Khorasanis, Afghans, and later Turko Iranics are all made of this proportion to this day. Turkics of Iran like myself have some 15-20% Peripheral Turkic influence, rest is all local so peel that off and we are Medes. Same goes for Turkish too, they are also not some Altaic Turkics. They are Indo European Mittani/Hittie descendants who went through language and culture shift and started calling themselves Turks (See their extreme genetic proximity to Iran). Which is why to this day Iran and Turkey are like ditto countries genetically along with Azerbaijan Republic, Armenia etc. I feel idiotic when we fight with eachother.

Btw only dumb fools on the internet think that only Persian tribes ruled Iran among the Iranics. The first Empire that was formed in Iranic plateau was by Medes IE who are ancestors of Kurds, Azeris, Tats, Talysh. The Achaemenids were Persians but had heavy Medes input (Persian+Kurd). Parthians were North Eastern Iranic Sychtian remnants that descended into Khorasani cline in Iranic plateau. Sassanids were pure Persians, later post Islamic Dynasties and Empires came from all of these groups with Turkics





Aryan tribes did not take a flight on Ryan Air plane to land in Delhi/Islamabad directly from Ukraine to create your kind by mixing with Indus farmer women in a matter of a day. The movement of large population groups/tribes in ancient times was very slow. Like few km/year so what you got in name of "Aryans" was already living for centuries in the North Eastern Iranic plateau (modern-day Afghanistan, an Iranic nation). The Aryans you received were Iranicised which is why even the purest form of remnants of them (marked by R1a Z93 haplo) today show Iranic genes like Iran_N/CHG to this day. Your idea of "oh they originated in Russia" so indo-paks are Russians has no literary basis.

The Yaghnoobi Tajiks are the closest most genetic form of the Indo-Aryans who entered India with almost ~50 % of them carrying the Elite R1a Z93 Indo Aryan haplo that is prevalent in South Asian upper castes (selective breeding groups like Brahmans etc) now. One can say that Tajiks/West Afghans invaded the South Asia as Indo Europeans from Bactaria which is modern day Afghan/Tajik region. And guess how much Iran_N/CHG they have? ... Around 40+ % ! which tells us that you did not receive some Russian Vladimir straight from Odessa on a flight. You received Afghan/Tajik warlords who were living in the Iranic plateau for a long enough time that when they invaded you they were already Iran_N/CHG heavy which shows in their own autosomal DNA today.

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Empires of Iran came much later after the invasion/migrations of IE into Iran. The Early migrations resulted in settlements of Medes, Kurds, Persians etc who mixed with locals to generate the modern Iranian identity. The iranic identity was already genetically stabilized by that time. Historians put the first records of "Medes" and "Persians" in Iran some ~3000 years ago living on the periphery of Assyrian empires but the first Persian empire came centuries later when they were localized already.

Persian identity or Medes Identity came to Iran from From Yamnaya some 3000 years ago and created empires but that does not mean there were no people in Iran at that time. A significant portion of Iranian genetics to this day come from Iranian Hunter-Gatherers (~20000 years old samples have been found) and their later descendants Neolithic Farmers (Iran_N). These are not just ancestors of Iranian but entire Central Asia, the Northern part of South Asia, and Anatolia as well. Let alone that, Iran_N is found among some Europeans.





Indus valley was not a martial empire. It was an Iranian famers (87% Iran_N) agri-society that could not defend itself and never in its entire history has ever created an empire so there was no "peak" or "decline".





You think you can change molecular genetic published reality by trash talking? sorry buddy science does not work like that. Why would I need to claim something that my Iranian farmers started ?? and my Iranicised Aryans from BMAC destroyed? I understand that you dont want to believe in the actual science of molecular genetics but you can't change it. Science is brutal in how it smashes myths. IVC was 87 % Iran_N is a molecular published fact. I provided DOI of western unis publishing work on it. You should trace every molecular geneticist who published this gene sequence and tell them they are all wrong, the western Universities they work in are wrong, their journals, high-impact papers, and research institutions with budgets higher than some country's foreign reserves are wrong ... everything is wrong and ultra nationalistic Indic myths are correct but this won't change the reality of molecular genetic sequence preserved in skeletons of past.

and last but not least, I have a history like the below-posted maps. I dont need some tiny nonmartial swamp of 87 % Iran_N farmers polluted by 13 % Indic aboriginal genes to boost my ego. My ego is boosted by below already. Three empires not too long ago. Iran-Turkic genes (see autosomal same plots of Turkish, Iranian, and Uzbek nations), Irano Turkic languages ... ruling over more than half the Asian population.

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Is your family origin Turkoman or Persian/Khorasani? Naderi troops that ransacked Indo-Pak were mostly Turkoman and Khorasanis (cavalry).

Does the surname end with "lu" ?

sindhis have one of higest iran N in the world , generally people in lower part of indus basin(sindhis ; balochs , seriaki) are rich in iran N and upper(jatt, Pashtun, kamboh, dardics) in steppe , obviously there are many outliers since we are dealing with region with complex history

 

[ThunderCat]

Agreed but to clarify, over 98% of modern day indians have no genetic, dna, racial or physical connections to modern day Pakistanis.

They are probably closer to modern Africans

 

[SaadH]

Thanks God farsi/dari was not made our national lingo.. that accent is horrible.

I take it you prefer the gay Irani accent.

 

[Daylamite Warrior]

I'm aware Nader withdrew with his forces. At that time, India was quite rich and after the sack of Delhi, central authority collapsed plus a lot of fertile land of the northern plains was up for grabs. That and there was already a sizeable Persian community in the region by 1700s and my ancestors set down roots there (the original family manor still exists, dating back to this period).

That's exactly what happened, though. The British wanted the Persianate influence gone and they elevated a lot of Urdu-speaking Muslim loyalists to the government once the rebellion was suppressed. Basically, if you didn't speak it, you had to become fluent in record time to keep your administrative post. Besides, back in those days, sons were groomed to take office from the father and this required them having a command from the get-go, which only comes if you converse frequently even in private life. Inside of two decades, the linguistic tradition was lost.

Find that hard to believe because I dont know of any mass migration of Muslim Iranians to India post Afsharid invasion. Maybe it's a little family white lie? Also the way you speak is 100% British English, as though you were born in the UK and you even use UK slang. You're definitely born and raised in UK, not India.