Iranian Ground Forces | News and Equipment

[Ich]

That is indeed a Karrar MBT that has not had its full ERA package installed over its (new) turret and chassis.

Your example is an IRGC T-72 upgrade project while the picture of the Karrar that I posted is a Defense Industry Organization (DIO) product.

Well, can you show me the difference?

Yes it is.
This is from the same sequence of pics showing the karrar upgrades being carried out on t72s

This is the next pic in the sequence,in this one you can clearly see on the tank on the left [the same one featured in the pic posted by Bahram]the karrars panoramic commanders sigh and integrated remote weapons mount,plus in the tank on the right you can also see the karrars fixed sight[the black object on top of the turret to the right of the gun]
In addition in Bahrams op you can also clearly see the karrars heavy reactive armor cassettes being mounted onto the turret,you can also see that the bottom horizontal cassettes are thicker than the ones used in the upgrade of the t72 in the pic that Ich posted.
You can see the rest of the sequence here:
https://defapress.ir/410778
There are links to other images posted with close ups of the tanks in question showing fine detail but I havent tracked them down again yet.

So the first one is a T72M upgrade and the second one is a T72S upgrade and the exibition shows the upgrades of T72 variants in Iran?

 

[TheImmortal]

That is indeed a Karrar MBT that has not had its full ERA package installed over its (new) turret and chassis.

Your example is an IRGC T-72 upgrade project while the picture of the Karrar that I posted is a Defense Industry Organization (DIO) product.

Yes it is.
This is from the same sequence of pics showing the karrar upgrades being carried out on t72s

This is the next pic in the sequence,in this one you can clearly see on the tank on the left [the same one featured in the pic posted by Bahram]the karrars panoramic commanders sigh and integrated remote weapons mount,plus in the tank on the right you can also see the karrars fixed sight[the black object on top of the turret to the right of the gun]
In addition in Bahrams op you can also clearly see the karrars heavy reactive armor cassettes being mounted onto the turret,you can also see that the bottom horizontal cassettes are thicker than the ones used in the upgrade of the t72 in the pic that Ich posted.
You can see the rest of the sequence here:
https://defapress.ir/410778
There are links to other images posted with close ups of the tanks in question showing fine detail but I havent tracked them down again yet.

The OP’s picture (with 1000HP sign) was not a Karrar tank.

If you think this

is the same as

Then there isn’t much to talk about.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Well, can you show me the difference?


So the first one is a T72M upgrade and the second one is a T72S upgrade and the exibition shows the upgrades of T72 variants in Iran?

That example shown by IRGC is a T-72M but I would be surprised if the IRGC do not have plans to upgrade their T-72S to that standard if they can afford it. That is my guess.

The OP’s picture (with 1000HP sign) was not a Karrar tank.

If you think this

View attachment 723484

is the same as

View attachment 723485

Then there isn’t much to talk about.

Well I guess we don't have much to talk about then!

 

[aryobarzan]

That example shown by IRGC is a T-72M but I would be surprised if the IRGC do not have plans to upgrade their T-72S to that standard if they can afford it. That is my guess.

Well I guess we don't have much to talk about then!

Now another question to Bahram or any one who knows....some Russian gentleman said karar is a T-90 copy....is it...if not why...was T 90 reverse engineered by iran...did Russians protest...a lot of mystery about this karar..⁹

 

[TheImmortal]

Now another question to Bahram or any one who knows....some Russian gentleman said karar is a T-90 copy....is it...if not why...was T 90 reverse engineered by iran...did Russians protest...a lot of mystery about this karar..⁹

There was major controversy surrounding the T-90 in Iran.

A few years ago during the height of Syrian civil war and Iranian army general says they have interest in buying T-90 tanks from Russia. Immediately he is attacked by others in the country and forced to backtrack the statement and say Iran has no need for T-90 and that it can build much better tank.

Fast forward 6-9 months later and Karrar is unveiled.

The whole thing is fishy to be honest.

We know IRGC has experience with T-90 because they were given to Syrian army during the war and fell into the hands of IRGC backed miltiamen and advisors so they had plenty of time to study the T-90. Iran was reportedly impressed by it.

Karrar is basically a localized Iranian T-90 like upgrade for existing T-72 tanks (T-90 was based on T-72 chassis). But it is missing key elements such as new engines and some other components.

Now wether Russia aided Iran in any way, looked the other way, or Iran got any type of ToT is unknown. But it seems strange that Iranian general would express interest in T-90 then backtrack and 6-9 months later you have a prototype shown.

 

[Ich]

From IranPress...but i dont know if that is a funny site or trust worthy or whatever

"Karrar is using a new motor with an optimized structure that is expected to be between 1,000 and 1200 horsepower. There is also the possibility of using the national diesel engine with 1300 - horsepower that its production line opened a while ago."

https://iranpress.com/content/30574

Sounds like the russian engine upgrade of T90 with 1000hp and then the new engine development for T90 with 1250hp. Or maybe it is true that Iran build a engine for Karrar. But if so, then they had to develop the whole power transmission too. Sure possible. Iran has a lot companies who build heavy diesel. But who would build all the other things needed for the power transmission in the Karrar?

 

[foxhoundbis]

The biggest problem with the AR-15 design, on which this rifle is based, it that you need a CNC milling machine for manufacture.

For the masses of the Army this gets quite expensive.

So I doubt that they will replace the G-3 with it, which is a mass-producable stamped steel design.

Raefipours design tried to managed it with a simpler non CNC design, but never heard anything about it since the unveiling.
AK-103 is attractive but 7.62 NATO has more punch in defensive positions (Armys role)

@PeeD
I present myself, I worked for nearly 10 years as engineers in mechanical engineering, especially production -1989 to 1999 in France-. I know very well this subject.
For huge mass production -like guns, rifles, cars, trucks, etc.....-, U don't need CNC lathe, neither milling. However medium production CNC can bring you some advantages. It depends. U know at that time, some boring asked such precision, skills, dexterity, our technicians used to prefer to do without CNC.
Regarding Iran especially its incredible progress, and its level, Iran has been producing CNC for a while.

IN IRAN, 01CNC IS THE FIRST MANUFACTURER OF CNC MACHINES

The company started professionally in 1995. 01CNC started producing and inventing so many different parts of the CNC machine using the low technology of that time and continued this proud full line with highest technologies on its various range of products today.

www.datalignum.com

CNC is no longer a problem for Iranians, the next step will be the production of its heavy fighter, it will demonstrate that this country will catch up step by step others modern countries.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Yes it is.
This is from the same sequence of pics showing the karrar upgrades being carried out on t72s

This is the next pic in the sequence,in this one you can clearly see on the tank on the left [the same one featured in the pic posted by Bahram]the karrars panoramic commanders sigh and integrated remote weapons mount,plus in the tank on the right you can also see the karrars fixed sight[the black object on top of the turret to the right of the gun]
In addition in Bahrams op you can also clearly see the karrars heavy reactive armor cassettes being mounted onto the turret,you can also see that the bottom horizontal cassettes are thicker than the ones used in the upgrade of the t72 in the pic that Ich posted.
You can see the rest of the sequence here:
https://defapress.ir/410778
There are links to other images posted with close ups of the tanks in question showing fine detail but I havent tracked them down again yet.

The most obvious sign that these tanks are Karrars are the turrets.

AFAIK, all Karrars receive this somewhat boxy turret that resembles western designs and unsurprisingly, the T-90's.

Karrar turret design and production

T-90 turret

T-72 turret: much rounder, classical Soviet design.

 

[Bahram Esfandiari]

Now another question to Bahram or any one who knows....some Russian gentleman said karar is a T-90 copy....is it...if not why...was T 90 reverse engineered by iran...did Russians protest...a lot of mystery about this karar..⁹

As an outsider looking in I think that the DIO looked at the T-90MS design as the most modern upgrade available for its T-72 fleet and decided to make its own version using the Technology available to Iran. All the subsystems on the Karrar like its Explosive Reactive Armour (exept for side skirt), Remote weapons System, Fire Control System ( based on Italian TURMS-T FCS sold to Syria) are different to the Russian designs. As far as I know Russia has not said anything publicly about the Karrar just like they never said anything publicly about the RAAD SAM or Dehlavieh ATGW that are based on Russian Buk-M2 SAM and the Kornet ATGM.

 

[PeeD]

@PeeD
I present myself, I worked for nearly 10 years as engineers in mechanical engineering, especially production -1989 to 1999 in France-. I know very well this subject.
For huge mass production -like guns, rifles, cars, trucks, etc.....-, U don't need CNC lathe, neither milling. However medium production CNC can bring you some advantages. It depends. U know at that time, some boring asked such precision, skills, dexterity, our technicians used to prefer to do without CNC.
Regarding Iran especially its incredible progress, and its level, Iran has been producing CNC for a while.

IN IRAN, 01CNC IS THE FIRST MANUFACTURER OF CNC MACHINES

The company started professionally in 1995. 01CNC started producing and inventing so many different parts of the CNC machine using the low technology of that time and continued this proud full line with highest technologies on its various range of products today.

www.datalignum.com

CNC is no longer a problem for Iranians, the next step will be the production of its heavy fighter, it will demonstrate that this country will catch up step by step others modern countries.

I'm not doubting Irans access to CNC machines.

The upper receiver design of the AR-15 is too complex.
You can't create a stamped steel design (G-3, AKM, AK-103) for it, nor a non-complex fast to manufacture milled design (AR-18, Zolfaghar).

But Iran has been manufacturing AR-15 since the 2000's, despite its higher cost upper receiver. However I have doubts they would use this expensive design to replace the G-3, because to build 100.000s service rifles you better produce fast and low cost.

 

[Blue In Green]

I'm not doubting Irans access to CNC machines.

The upper receiver design of the AR-15 is too complex.
You can't create a stamped steel design (G-3, AKM, AK-103) for it, nor a non-complex fast to manufacture milled design (AR-18, Zolfaghar).

But Iran has been manufacturing AR-15 since the 2000's, despite its higher cost upper receiver. However I have doubts they would use this expensive design to replace the G-3, because to build 100.000s service rifles you better produce fast and low cost.

What would be the benefits of an AR-15 design over the currently employed G-3?

I know the AR-15 is way more modular and can suit itself to many different load-outs depending on mission parameters. Better accuracy/precision at longer-ranges?

 

[Shawnee]

I am not sure if it was discussed here. Two major drawbacks of the current AR designs:

1. Price of 60-70 M toman, almost the price of pride!!
2. Poor barrel longevity of 6000 rounds.

Here comes AK-103.

 

[PeeD]

What would be the benefits of an AR-15 design over the currently employed G-3?

I know the AR-15 is way more modular and can suit itself to many different load-outs depending on mission parameters. Better accuracy/precision at longer-ranges?

Foremost lower recoil of 7.62 MASAF over G-3, then likely lower weight and potentially better reliability, accessories and accuracy.
Key issue, you need more experience and training to handle the G-3 well.

 

[Sineva]

The OP’s picture (with 1000HP sign) was not a Karrar tank.

If you think this

View attachment 723484

is the same as

View attachment 723485

Then there isn’t much to talk about.

Thats because the one in your post is a new build,very likely a pre-production model,whereas the one in the link from my post is an upgrade of an existing hull,but nonetheless they are both karras.Indeed even the most cursory glance should be enough for most people to realise that these two tanks have virtually all of the same features in terms of external upgrades,the only real differences is that the one under test does not have its full compliment of reactive armor cassettes fitted yet as there is an obvious space near the barrel,plus it does not have the rear barrel shroud,however it clearly does have the karrars fixed sight,its integrated sight and weapons station,its octagonal commanders hatch and cupola and both the heavy reactive armor and lightweight fence type armor complement on the hull.
Now if you`re still really unable to see all of these things after having them pointed out to you,well then,yeah I guess there really isnt much to talk about.

 

[925boy]

As an outsider looking in I think that the DIO looked at the T-90MS design as the most modern upgrade available for its T-72 fleet and decided to make its own version using the Technology available to Iran. All the subsystems on the Karrar like its Explosive Reactive Armour (exept for side skirt), Remote weapons System, Fire Control System ( based on Italian TURMS-T FCS sold to Syria) are different to the Russian designs. As far as I know Russia has not said anything publicly about the Karrar just like they never said anything publicly about the RAAD SAM or Dehlavieh ATGW that are based on Russian Buk-M2 SAM and the Kornet ATGM.

Fully agree with this summary. Nice post.

FIRST OF ALL, this argument about what Karrar is proves how advanced Iran's military industries are. WHY? cuz some of it looks quite advanced and its local! some people were expecting a RUssified Iranian Karrar but in reality they got an Iranified Russian T90. Good work Iran. THis upgrade and move to Karrar was extremely sharp of Iranian mililtary leadership.